Full Version: Theo Angelopoulos
I was at a film festival where, in the light of Bergman's and Antonioni's passing, the topic of living cinematic masters arose, and thus, inevitably, the question of who was the greatest. Hou? Tarr? Kiarostami? Oliveira? Godard? Dardenne brothers? And on and on the cinephile's passion burned, each pleading their case. But, among the names thrown into the mix, it seemed to be Theo Angelopoulos who brought the greatest divide. There seems to be such extreme polarization when it comes to views on his work. For example, I happen to love Tarkovsky, and also Angelopoulos. In fact, I assumed that one who was passionate about Tarkovsky, would naturally gravitate toward Angelopoulos, who, in my opinion, is the one carrying the torch lit by Tark's flame. However, this was not the case. Many who loved Tarkovsky, to put it bluntly, for some reason or other couldn't stomach Angelopoulos. Also, there was a fair number of those who were only faintly aware of his work. Then I did a search here to see what folks might have to say, and, once again to my surprise, I could scarcely find any mention of him. So, here it is, I'm opening it up. What do you think? Of his work, I've seen Travelling Players,The Beekeeper,Suspended Step of the Stork,Landscape in the Mist,Eternity and a Day,Ulysses Gaze, and The Weeping Meadow. I've also read Andrew Horton's wonderfully informative The Films of Theo Angelopoulos: A Cinema of Contemplation. And where I stand at the moment is that when Angelopolous finishes his curent trilogy, of which The Weeping Meadow was part one, he will quite possibly have left a greater mark on the world of cinema than even Tarkovsky. And I say that as one who believes Tark could do no wrong. There's just something happening in Angelopoulos' body of work, seen and studied as a whole, that I can't shake off. Plus, I've learned to never underestimate a people who gave us Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. But anyway, what do you think? And what of the Byzantine Orthodox influence on his work?
I've never heard of the guy, but I just have to say, what a TERRIFIC name.
I'll stop being frivolous now.
I'll stop being frivolous now.
I've seen The Weeping Meadow, which was tremendous despite some less than ideal screening conditions. (I love A&F, but seeing so many folks in that thread who no longer post here makes me sad.)
Last year I sat down to watch Eternity and a Day and had more trouble with that one. That may have had something to do with the much smaller screen I watched it on -- a letterboxed presentation on a 27-inch TV set, rather than a projected film in a packed theater.
The comparison with Tarkovsky is interesting, but TA already has more cinematic output that AT ever did, right? The IMDB listings include some short films and segments, so I'm not sure how many features each has made. Quantity means little when weighing which filmmaker is "the greatest." Why narrow it down to just one?
Can't say I know anything about the "Byzantine Orthodox influence on his work," which is probably my loss. I'll seek out that book you mention. Thanks for the tip.
Last year I sat down to watch Eternity and a Day and had more trouble with that one. That may have had something to do with the much smaller screen I watched it on -- a letterboxed presentation on a 27-inch TV set, rather than a projected film in a packed theater.
The comparison with Tarkovsky is interesting, but TA already has more cinematic output that AT ever did, right? The IMDB listings include some short films and segments, so I'm not sure how many features each has made. Quantity means little when weighing which filmmaker is "the greatest." Why narrow it down to just one?
Can't say I know anything about the "Byzantine Orthodox influence on his work," which is probably my loss. I'll seek out that book you mention. Thanks for the tip.
Christian...
Thanks for the link to the Weeping thread. Yes, TA already has a larger output than AT did, but of course AT died at 54, which should be taken into consideration, and always, most importantly, yes, quality over quantity. And it is to the quality of their given body of work that I speak. I simply mean to say that when it's all said and done, Angelopoulos' magnificent contribution to cinema may be seen in a greater light than Tark's, as its grand scope and vision becomes revealed to perhaps be delving further into the universal human condition than has previously been accomplished in cinematic language, a human condition both flesh and spirit, while simultaneously speaking to the larger historical and political context of its time, and yet, somehow managing to transcend dating itself due to its highly stylized aesthetic principles.
And in terms of narrowing it down to one as the "greatest", absolutely no need. And really, who could. My holy triumverate of cinema has long been Tarkovsky, Breson, Dreyer, and they will always remain masters to me, and fall in line with the greatest. But regarding Angelopoulos, it just seems he's taking it further. Can you tell I love the guy?
Thanks for the link to the Weeping thread. Yes, TA already has a larger output than AT did, but of course AT died at 54, which should be taken into consideration, and always, most importantly, yes, quality over quantity. And it is to the quality of their given body of work that I speak. I simply mean to say that when it's all said and done, Angelopoulos' magnificent contribution to cinema may be seen in a greater light than Tark's, as its grand scope and vision becomes revealed to perhaps be delving further into the universal human condition than has previously been accomplished in cinematic language, a human condition both flesh and spirit, while simultaneously speaking to the larger historical and political context of its time, and yet, somehow managing to transcend dating itself due to its highly stylized aesthetic principles.
And in terms of narrowing it down to one as the "greatest", absolutely no need. And really, who could. My holy triumverate of cinema has long been Tarkovsky, Breson, Dreyer, and they will always remain masters to me, and fall in line with the greatest. But regarding Angelopoulos, it just seems he's taking it further. Can you tell I love the guy?
I know I had a thread going on Angelopoulos' Ulysees' Gaze, a film that I truly adored, but it appears the thread is gone.
Was it on the Novogate board? Are those discussions permanently gone?
If so, sad.
I saw Eternity and a Day earlier this year, but I want to see it again before really trying to discuss it.
As far as The Weeping Meadow goes, well that film is truly Angelopoulos off the charts. The lulling, the soaking, the horrifying... that slow pan that steadies you into time with a family, and you really do become a part of it... And spend time you do... Looking back on it, I'm reminded of The Godfather, or maybe my favorite Italian film, The Best of Youth, strictly in terms of how we get to be soaked right into the family, and we don't want it to end because we feel that we are losing loved ones.
If anyone has any info on The Weeping Meadow's next films or whatever Angelopoulos might be doing these days, I'd appreciate it.
Was it on the Novogate board? Are those discussions permanently gone?
If so, sad.
I saw Eternity and a Day earlier this year, but I want to see it again before really trying to discuss it.
As far as The Weeping Meadow goes, well that film is truly Angelopoulos off the charts. The lulling, the soaking, the horrifying... that slow pan that steadies you into time with a family, and you really do become a part of it... And spend time you do... Looking back on it, I'm reminded of The Godfather, or maybe my favorite Italian film, The Best of Youth, strictly in terms of how we get to be soaked right into the family, and we don't want it to end because we feel that we are losing loved ones.
If anyone has any info on The Weeping Meadow's next films or whatever Angelopoulos might be doing these days, I'd appreciate it.
Cool, I just found this quote on the message boards at IMDB regarding The Best of Youth --
"I wish it wouldn't end, I want to stay with these miraculous people forever."
And that's exactly why I compared The Weeping Meadow to it.
"I wish it wouldn't end, I want to stay with these miraculous people forever."
And that's exactly why I compared The Weeping Meadow to it.
Stef...
TA's follow up to The Weeping Meadow, as part of his trilogy, is called The Dust of Time. And if that title doesn't get you, get a load of the cast: Willem Defoe, Harvey Keitel, Irene Jacob, Bruno Ganz. It should begin making it's way across the festival circuit this coming fall. My entire being tingles at the thought of it.
TA's follow up to The Weeping Meadow, as part of his trilogy, is called The Dust of Time. And if that title doesn't get you, get a load of the cast: Willem Defoe, Harvey Keitel, Irene Jacob, Bruno Ganz. It should begin making it's way across the festival circuit this coming fall. My entire being tingles at the thought of it.
Some food for thought. Andrew Horton begins the preface to his book, The Films of Theo Angelopoulos: A Cinema of Contemplation like this:
"I have written this book because the films of Theo Angelopoulos matter. They matter because they dare to cross a number of borders: between nations; between history and myth, the past and the present, voyaging and stasis; between betrayal and a sense of community, chance and individual fate, realism and surrealism, silence and sound; between what is seen and what is withheld or not seen; and between what is "Greek" and what is not. In short, Angelopoulos can be counted as one of the few filmmaker's in cinema's first hundred years who compel us to redefine what we feel cinema is and can be. But there is more. His films open us to an even larger question that becomes personal to each of us: how do we see the world within us and around us?"
Also, here's an interesting quote from Angelopoulos:
"The world needs cinema now more than ever. It may be the last important form of resistance to the deteriorating world in which we live. In dealing with borders, boundaries, the mixing of languages and cultures today, I am trying to seek a new humanism, a new way."
"I have written this book because the films of Theo Angelopoulos matter. They matter because they dare to cross a number of borders: between nations; between history and myth, the past and the present, voyaging and stasis; between betrayal and a sense of community, chance and individual fate, realism and surrealism, silence and sound; between what is seen and what is withheld or not seen; and between what is "Greek" and what is not. In short, Angelopoulos can be counted as one of the few filmmaker's in cinema's first hundred years who compel us to redefine what we feel cinema is and can be. But there is more. His films open us to an even larger question that becomes personal to each of us: how do we see the world within us and around us?"
Also, here's an interesting quote from Angelopoulos:
"The world needs cinema now more than ever. It may be the last important form of resistance to the deteriorating world in which we live. In dealing with borders, boundaries, the mixing of languages and cultures today, I am trying to seek a new humanism, a new way."
My two library systems don't carry this book, but I might get it through inter-library loan. Or I could, ya know, buy it.
QUOTE (stef @ Jul 31 2008, 05:48 PM) 
I know I had a thread going on Angelopoulos' Ulysees' Gaze, a film that I truly adored, but it appears the thread is gone.
Was it on the Novogate board? Are those discussions permanently gone?
If so, sad.
Was it on the Novogate board? Are those discussions permanently gone?
If so, sad.
I tried 2 or 3 times to watch Ulysees' Gaze, but I just couldn't make it past 20 minutes or so... I just couldn't get interested in it. Maybe it's not the best film to begin with by Angelopoulos? What would you recommend?
Ummm ... I won't be buying it. Library here I come!
Darryl...
I suggest starting with Landscape in the Mist. Scorsese's even a big fan of that one. But, like all TA, it definitely takes some serious effort. Give it a chance, though, and there's a great view from the top. Even if you have to break it up into two viewings, just give it a chance. And as far as Ulysses' Gaze is concerned, you definitely need to be drawn into his previous work first, as well as have read a bit about TA, in order to fully enter into that film. Here's a quote from Andrew Horton, who is the leading American scholar concerning TA, it gets at the gist of what I mean:
"The film (Ulysses' Gaze) begins with direct lines of dialogue from Suspended Step of the Stork (a previous TA film), thus interlocking his "Balkan period". And Angelopoulos goes further to make direct reference to the controversy his actual filming of this previous work created with a local bishop of the town of Florina in northern Greece. Thus, more directly than in any of his previous work, Angelopoulos has built in an autobiographical element. This dimension is even more apparent since the protagonist is a middle-aged filmmaker named "A"."
It's kind of like Tarkovsky. Many would say in order to understand Tark, one must understand Mirror. But, I definitely wouldn't recommend Mirror as a starting place for Tark's work. Anyway, hope you check out Landscape in the Mist, and I hope you love it as do. For me, words cannot suffice...
Christian...
Ouch! Yeah, the book price is a bit steep. Thank God for libraries, huh?
I suggest starting with Landscape in the Mist. Scorsese's even a big fan of that one. But, like all TA, it definitely takes some serious effort. Give it a chance, though, and there's a great view from the top. Even if you have to break it up into two viewings, just give it a chance. And as far as Ulysses' Gaze is concerned, you definitely need to be drawn into his previous work first, as well as have read a bit about TA, in order to fully enter into that film. Here's a quote from Andrew Horton, who is the leading American scholar concerning TA, it gets at the gist of what I mean:
"The film (Ulysses' Gaze) begins with direct lines of dialogue from Suspended Step of the Stork (a previous TA film), thus interlocking his "Balkan period". And Angelopoulos goes further to make direct reference to the controversy his actual filming of this previous work created with a local bishop of the town of Florina in northern Greece. Thus, more directly than in any of his previous work, Angelopoulos has built in an autobiographical element. This dimension is even more apparent since the protagonist is a middle-aged filmmaker named "A"."
It's kind of like Tarkovsky. Many would say in order to understand Tark, one must understand Mirror. But, I definitely wouldn't recommend Mirror as a starting place for Tark's work. Anyway, hope you check out Landscape in the Mist, and I hope you love it as do. For me, words cannot suffice...
Christian...
Ouch! Yeah, the book price is a bit steep. Thank God for libraries, huh?
Here's a small but interesting piece from 2000 by Derek Malcom for his Century of Films series regarding TA's 1975 masterpiece, The Traveling Players.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2000/jun/15/artsfeatures
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2000/jun/15/artsfeatures
From the book, Film:The Critics' Choice, edited by Geoff Andrew, Jonathan Romney has this to say:
"The Greek director and screenwriter Theo Angelopoulos is one of the cinema's great landscape artists, and what often strikes us in his films are those moments when landscape freezes into a vast dramatic panorama...But Angelopoulos is also a filmmaker of motion, who makes films about travel - on trains, cars, buses, on foot, and above all in the imagination. Claiming Welles and Mizoguchi as primary influences, Angelopoulos is known - together with his long-time cameraman Yorgos Arvanitis - as a specialist of the long, flowing, precisely choreographed take. The Traveling Players is a prime example of this, a four-hour film containing only 80 shots. In the most distinctive of these, the camera and the actors move in such a way that time and space seem to turn inside out, to achieve a Mobius-strip elasticity...Angelopoulos is a masterful director of crowd movements...His films suggest a theory of history as parade - not in the derogatory "heritage" sense of a pageant, but as an endless procession, at once funeral cortege and political demonstration, continually crossing its own tracks, changing its direction, changing its ideological colors...movement itself becomes a formidably acute and supple tool for historical analysis."
"The Greek director and screenwriter Theo Angelopoulos is one of the cinema's great landscape artists, and what often strikes us in his films are those moments when landscape freezes into a vast dramatic panorama...But Angelopoulos is also a filmmaker of motion, who makes films about travel - on trains, cars, buses, on foot, and above all in the imagination. Claiming Welles and Mizoguchi as primary influences, Angelopoulos is known - together with his long-time cameraman Yorgos Arvanitis - as a specialist of the long, flowing, precisely choreographed take. The Traveling Players is a prime example of this, a four-hour film containing only 80 shots. In the most distinctive of these, the camera and the actors move in such a way that time and space seem to turn inside out, to achieve a Mobius-strip elasticity...Angelopoulos is a masterful director of crowd movements...His films suggest a theory of history as parade - not in the derogatory "heritage" sense of a pageant, but as an endless procession, at once funeral cortege and political demonstration, continually crossing its own tracks, changing its direction, changing its ideological colors...movement itself becomes a formidably acute and supple tool for historical analysis."
There is such a profound melancholia in Angelopoulos' films that it hurts my soul to view them.
It's a pity that he has only started to receive credit for his work in the late 90's and 00's, because the peak of his powers were displayed in the 1980's, and early 90's with films such as "Megalexandros", "Voyage to Cythera", "The Beekeeper", "Landscape in the Mist" and ""Suspended Step of the Stork".
Some of the themes of his works include:
- The death of Myth or any other grand metanarrative (e.g. emancipation through Communism) as a way of ordering our lives and the struggle to find a new way to orient ourselves
- The problems of forging an identity in a world with contested geographical, moral and spiritual borders
- The burdens of history and history's ability to alienate and as well as orient our lives
- Nihilism and the spiritual vaccuum in modernity
- The search for new foundations or origins as a hope for the future
- Journeying as a spiritual quest or search for meaning
Whilst I can't quite put him on the level of an Andrei Tarkovsky as far as directors go, there probably hasn't been a more important director since Theo Angelopoulos to come and ask the questions that really matter. His cinema doesn't provide many answers to these questions, but it asks the important questions, which is something most directors balk at and fail to even recognise.
If I was to recommend any films of his to introduce you to his style, they would be the following:
1. Voyage to Cythera (1984)
2. Landscape in the Mist (1988)
3. Suspended Step of the Stork (1991)
Megalexandros (1980) is probably his most 'all encompassing' film, and in some ways his most impressive, but it is very long and hard to follow and should only be viewed after familiarising yourself with some of his later work.
It's a pity that he has only started to receive credit for his work in the late 90's and 00's, because the peak of his powers were displayed in the 1980's, and early 90's with films such as "Megalexandros", "Voyage to Cythera", "The Beekeeper", "Landscape in the Mist" and ""Suspended Step of the Stork".
Some of the themes of his works include:
- The death of Myth or any other grand metanarrative (e.g. emancipation through Communism) as a way of ordering our lives and the struggle to find a new way to orient ourselves
- The problems of forging an identity in a world with contested geographical, moral and spiritual borders
- The burdens of history and history's ability to alienate and as well as orient our lives
- Nihilism and the spiritual vaccuum in modernity
- The search for new foundations or origins as a hope for the future
- Journeying as a spiritual quest or search for meaning
Whilst I can't quite put him on the level of an Andrei Tarkovsky as far as directors go, there probably hasn't been a more important director since Theo Angelopoulos to come and ask the questions that really matter. His cinema doesn't provide many answers to these questions, but it asks the important questions, which is something most directors balk at and fail to even recognise.
If I was to recommend any films of his to introduce you to his style, they would be the following:
1. Voyage to Cythera (1984)
2. Landscape in the Mist (1988)
3. Suspended Step of the Stork (1991)
Megalexandros (1980) is probably his most 'all encompassing' film, and in some ways his most impressive, but it is very long and hard to follow and should only be viewed after familiarising yourself with some of his later work.
QUOTE (Wiederspahn @ Aug 1 2008, 03:31 PM)
"The film (Ulysses' Gaze) begins with direct lines of dialogue from Suspended Step of the Stork (a previous TA film), thus interlocking his "Balkan period". And Angelopoulos goes further to make direct reference to the controversy his actual filming of this previous work created with a local bishop of the town of Florina in northern Greece. Thus, more directly than in any of his previous work, Angelopoulos has built in an autobiographical element. This dimension is even more apparent since the protagonist is a middle-aged filmmaker named "A"."
That long, long paragraph at the end of Ulysee's Gaze... Is that from somewhere else? I've always been a bit -- oh, I guess kind of "I don't get it but I like it" concerning the closing lines of the film.
QUOTE (Stavrogin @ Nov 18 2008, 07:59 PM)
If I was to recommend any films of his to introduce you to his style, they would be the following:
1. Voyage to Cythera (1984)
2. Landscape in the Mist (1988)
3. Suspended Step of the Stork (1991)
1. Voyage to Cythera (1984)
2. Landscape in the Mist (1988)
3. Suspended Step of the Stork (1991)
Cool, I've not seen any of these. But I suppose they're only available on Region 2?
I just added Landscape in the Mist to my Blockbuster queue. I would bet Netflix has a lot more, but when you have little kids, Blockbuster is simply an easier way to live.
QUOTE (stef @ Nov 19 2008, 08:59 PM)
Cool, I've not seen any of these. But I suppose they're only available on Region 2?
I just added Landscape in the Mist to my Blockbuster queue. I would bet Netflix has a lot more, but when you have little kids, Blockbuster is simply an easier way to live.
I just added Landscape in the Mist to my Blockbuster queue. I would bet Netflix has a lot more, but when you have little kids, Blockbuster is simply an easier way to live.
I'm not sure where you could get DVD copies of 'Voyage to Cythera' and "Suspended Step of the Stork". It's a crying shame that these films aren't more freely available. They are amongst Angelopoulos' best films in my opinion. Vastly superior to the likes of Eternity and a Day and the Weeping Meadow and such.
The copies I have are DVD conversions from avi. files downloaded from the 'emule' torrent site. However, they don't have English subtitles. If you can understand Greek I'd be willing to post the movies to you in their original Greek, otherwise i'm not sure where you can get them.... Good luck anyway stef.
QUOTE (Stavrogin @ Nov 20 2008, 12:40 AM)
QUOTE (stef @ Nov 19 2008, 08:59 PM)
Cool, I've not seen any of these. But I suppose they're only available on Region 2?
I just added Landscape in the Mist to my Blockbuster queue. I would bet Netflix has a lot more, but when you have little kids, Blockbuster is simply an easier way to live.
I just added Landscape in the Mist to my Blockbuster queue. I would bet Netflix has a lot more, but when you have little kids, Blockbuster is simply an easier way to live.
I'm not sure where you could get DVD copies of 'Voyage to Cythera' and "Suspended Step of the Stork". It's a crying shame that these films aren't more freely available. They are amongst Angelopoulos' best films in my opinion. Vastly superior to the likes of Eternity and a Day and the Weeping Meadow and such.
The copies I have are DVD conversions from avi. files downloaded from the 'emule' torrent site. However, they don't have English subtitles. If you can understand Greek I'd be willing to post the movies to you in their original Greek, otherwise i'm not sure where you can get them.... Good luck anyway stef.
Suspended Step of the Stork was released by a Greek company named New Star. They've released around a half-dozen of his films, I believe, and the transfers were apparently supervised (or at least approved) by Angelopoulos himself -- a little surprising as I remember hearing he was adamently opposed to people viewing his pictures on home video (perhaps advances in home theater systems have convinced him of their merit).
I haven't seen this particular DVD, but I do have the company's releases of Ulysses' Gaze and The Traveling Players and both are gorgeous and have good English subs. You might check eBay.
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