Hooray! Chihiro guessed correctly! Let's all cheer and be happy!
Overstreet
Oct 1 2008, 04:30 PM
Oh, oh! Reign of Fire!
Every time I watch this movie (and I've seen it several times), I think... the first half of this movie builds up so much potential! They were in a position to create one of such an unlikely fantasy/post-apocalypse classic. They even gave Matthew McConaughey a great role, one that I can actually bear to watch! But then, the movie runs out of fuel... almost as if the filmmakers ran out of money... and it just collapses, in spite of the big dragon reveal.
Truetruth
Oct 1 2008, 04:54 PM
There Will Be Blood. It's a great film with an interesting ending (I liked it more than many people), but in light of the incredible power and tight story-telling and acting of the rest of the film, I found the ending both over-the-top and anti-climactic. It is still interesting though and powerful in its own way.
CrimsonLine
Oct 1 2008, 09:31 PM
The Lord of the Rings trilogy, maybe? "Well, I'm back."
Alan Thomas
Oct 1 2008, 10:07 PM
This topic has been moved to the better-suited "Film Awards, Festivals, and Lists" forum...
DanBuck
Oct 2 2008, 07:38 AM
Vanilla Sky (I don't know if this is a "best movie". The ending is so awful, it sort of ruins anything good about the earlier segments)
MattPage
Oct 2 2008, 11:07 AM
Fight club - with the same reasoning as Dan just gave
Jesus of Nazareth
Matt
M. Dale Prins
Oct 2 2008, 11:47 AM
The Simpsons' "Homie the Clown." "Here's $50." "And $2 your change, and we thank you."
Dale
Baal_T'shuvah
Oct 2 2008, 12:16 PM
It pains me to say it, but Apocalypse Now really just fizzles at the end. After two-thirds of one of the greatest journeys put on film, the final third doesn't do much for me, and the finale just feels like Coppola ran out of ideas (which, after watching Hearts of Darkness, seems to be the case). Still, I'll continue to rewatch it just for the journey up river.
Backrow Baptist
Oct 2 2008, 07:27 PM
QUOTE (MattPage @ Oct 2 2008, 12:07 PM)
Fight club - with the same reasoning as Dan just gave
Matt
Elaborate please. Also, can anyone explain why the ending was changed from the book?
MattPage
Oct 3 2008, 02:40 AM
I thought it was fascinating until the Oh Tyler Durden's just in my imagination, well lets just blow some s*** up just to make sure the blokes don't think too closely about how that totally ruins everything that's gone before moment.
Matt
David Smedberg
Oct 3 2008, 01:15 PM
QUOTE (MattPage @ Oct 2 2008, 12:07 PM)
Fight club - with the same reasoning as Dan just gave Matt
Absolutely agreed. I hate that ending so much.
Backrow Baptist
Oct 3 2008, 01:36 PM
QUOTE (MattPage @ Oct 3 2008, 03:40 AM)
I thought it was fascinating until the Oh Tyler Durden's just in my imagination, well lets just blow some s*** up just to make sure the blokes don't think too closely about how that totally ruins everything that's gone before moment.
Matt
The first time I saw it the big twist seemed unnecessary and kind of trendy after the The Usual Suspects, The Sixth Sense, etc. After seeing it a few more times I think I get what they were going for. Tyler gets Jack to admit there is nothing good about his life so he needed to invent Tyler, who is the type of guy Jack wishes he could be.
As for the explosions, I'm still not sure why they changed the ending to that. In the book Jack has shot himself in the mouth on top of the building rigged with explosives. We don't know exactly what happens next but in the next scene Jack apparently thinks he is in heaven (a hospital in reality) and he's across from "God" (his doctor). Jack talks about how God brings certain colored pills, etc. and the people in the lab coats. That could have been a more interesting ending after Tyler convinced Jack that God hates him, our fathers are our models for God, etc. The film makers never explained the new ending in any of the commentaries or docs on the DVD.
Truetruth
Oct 3 2008, 03:04 PM
Oh, I can't believe that I forgot this one-- In My Skin, a French film from 2003 that is truly one of the most unsettling pieces of cinema that I have ever seen. To say that it is both darkly powerful and disconcerting is an understatement. I look forward to more works (Lord willing), from the writer, director, and lead actress of this film, Marina de Van. But the ending? Well, I'll just say that it could fit under "ambiguous" and "anti-climactic."
Josh Hurst
Oct 3 2008, 03:09 PM
QUOTE (Overstreet @ Oct 1 2008, 05:24 PM)
I nominate Spirited Away.
Hooray! Chihiro guessed correctly! Let's all cheer and be happy!
Hmmm... I've always thought it seemed pretty clear that Chihiro was actually remembering which pigs were her parents. She is urged at a couple of points throughout the film not to forget which ones are her folks and which ones are, um, pigs, and it's stressed that holding on to her memories of her life back home is vital for her escape. So I've always thought the final scene was a testament to the fact that, unlike Haku, she never totally forgot who she was. I don't think there's any guesswork involved.
That's my reading of it, anyway.
Peter T Chattaway
Oct 3 2008, 03:11 PM
Backrow Baptist wrote: : The first time I saw it the big twist seemed unnecessary and kind of trendy after the The Usual Suspects, The Sixth Sense, etc. After seeing it a few more times I think I get what they were going for.
Keep in mind that that twist is there in the book, which presumably came out before The Sixth Sense, at least. (BTW, I was not all THAT surprised by the Fight Club twist, because I remember thinking during an earlier scene, "Helena Bonham Carter thinks she has had sex with Ed Norton, not Brad Pitt. I don't know WHY she thinks that, but she wouldn't be reacting to Ed this way if she didn't think that.")
: As for the explosions, I'm still not sure why they changed the ending to that. In the book Jack has shot himself in the mouth on top of the building rigged with explosives. We don't know exactly what happens next but . . .
FWIW, I posted the last two chapters of the book here, when the movie came out nine years ago.
Backrow Baptist
Oct 3 2008, 03:19 PM
QUOTE (Peter T Chattaway @ Oct 3 2008, 04:11 PM)
Backrow Baptist wrote: : The first time I saw it the big twist seemed unnecessary and kind of trendy after the The Usual Suspects, The Sixth Sense, etc. After seeing it a few more times I think I get what they were going for.
Keep in mind that that twist is there in the book, which presumably came out before The Sixth Sense, at least. (BTW, I was not all THAT surprised by the Fight Club twist, because I remember thinking during an earlier scene, "Helena Bonham Carter thinks she has had sex with Ed Norton, not Brad Pitt. I don't know WHY she thinks that, but she wouldn't be reacting to Ed this way if she didn't think that.")
: As for the explosions, I'm still not sure why they changed the ending to that. In the book Jack has shot himself in the mouth on top of the building rigged with explosives. We don't know exactly what happens next but . . .
FWIW, I posted the last two chapters of the book here, when the movie came out nine years ago.
Can you paste that here? My memory of the book's ending is probably a little fuzzy.
Peter T Chattaway
Oct 3 2008, 03:25 PM
Backrow Baptist wrote: : Can you paste that here? My memory of the book's ending is probably a little fuzzy.
Are the OnFilm archives no longer accessible? In that case:
29
Tyler's standing there, perfectly handsome and an angel in his everything-blond way. My will to live amazes me.
Me, I'm a bloody tissue sample dried on a bare mattress in my room at the Paper Street Soap Company.
Everything in my room is gone.
My mirror with a picture of my foot from when I had cancer for ten minutes. Worse than cancer. The mirror is gone. The closet door is open and my six white shirts, black pants, underwear, socks, and shoes are gone.
Tyler says, "Get up."
Under and behind and inside everything I took for granted, something horrible has been growing.
Everything has fallen apart.
The space monkeys are cleared out. Everything is relocated, the liposuction fat, the bunk beds, the money, especially the money. Only the garden is left behind, and the rented house.
Tyler says, "The last thing we have to do is your martyrdom thing. Your big death thing."
Not like death as a sad, downer thing, this was going to be death as a cheery, empowering thing.
"It has to be big," Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world's tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke rolling out the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street. A real opera of a death, that's what you're going to get."
I say, no. You've used me enough.
"If you don't cooperate, we'll go after Marla."
I say, lead the way.
"Now get the fuck out of bed," Tyler said, "and get your ass into the fucking car."
So Tyler and I are up on top of the Parker-Morris Building with the gun stuck in my mouth.
We're down to our last ten minutes.
The Parker-Morris Building won't be here in ten minutes. I know this because Tyler knows this.
The barrel of the gun pressed against the back of my throat, Tyler says, "We won't really die."
I tongue the gun barrel into my surviving cheek [one of his cheeks was ripped open in a fight, earlier in the book] and say, Tyler, you're thinking of vampires.
We're down to our last eight minutes.
The gun is just in case the police helicopters get here sooner.
To God, this looks like one man alone, holding a gun in his own mouth, but it's Tyler holding the gun, and it's my life.
You take a 98-percent concentration of fuming nitric acid and add the acid to three times that amount of sulfuric acid.
You have nitroglycerin.
Seven minutes.
Mix the nitro with sawdust, and you have a nice plastic explosive. A lot of the space monkeys mix their nitro with cotton and add Epsom salts as a sulfate. This works, too. Some monkeys, they use paraffin mixed with nitro. Paraffin has never, ever worked for me.
Four minutes.
Tyler and me at the edge of the roof, the gun in my mouth, I'm wondering how clean this gun is.
Three minutes.
Then somebody yells.
"Wait," and it's Marla coming toward us across the roof.
Marla's coming toward me, just me because Tyler's gone. Poof. Tyler's my hallucination, not hers. Fast as a magic trick, Tyler's disappeared. And now I'm just one man holding a gun in my mouth.
"We followed you," Marla yells. "All the people from the support group. You don't have to do this. Put the gun down."
Behind Marla, all the bowel cancers, the brain parasites, the melanoma people, the tuberculosis people are walking, limping, wheelchairing toward me.
They're saying, "Wait."
Their voices come to me on the cold wind, saying, "Stop."
And, "We can help you."
"Let us help you."
Across the sky comes the _whop, whop, whop_ of police helicopters.
I yell, go. Get out of here. This building is going to explode.
Marla yells, "We know."
This is like a total epiphany moment for me.
I'm not killing myself, I yell. I'm killing Tyler.
I am Joe's Hard Drive.
I remember everything.
"It's not love or anything," Marla shouts, "but I think I like you."
One minute.
Marla likes Tyler.
"No, I like you," Marla shouts. "I know the difference."
And nothing.
Nothing explodes.
The barrel of the gun tucked in my surviving cheek, I say, Tyler, you mixed the nitro with paraffin, didn't you.
Paraffin never works.
I have to do this.
The police helicopters.
And I pull the trigger.
30
In my father's house are many mansions.
Of course, when I pulled the trigger, I died.
Liar.
And Tyler died.
With the police helicopters thundering toward us, and Marla and all the support group people who couldn't save themselves, with all of them trying to save me, I had to pull the trigger.
This was better than real life.
And your one perfect moment won't last forever.
Everything in heaven is white on white.
Faker.
Everything in heaven is quiet, rubber-soled shoes.
I can sleep in heaven.
People write to me in heaven and tell me I'm remembered. That I'm their hero. I'll get better.
The angels here are the Old Testament kind, legions and lieutenants, a heavenly host who works in shifts, days, swing, Graveyard. They bring you your meals on a tray with a paper cup of meds. The Valley of the Dolls playset.
I've met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, "Why?"
Why did I cause so much pain?
Didn't I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness?
Can't I see how we're all manifestations of love?
I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God's got this all wrong.
We are not special.
We are not crap or trash, either.
We just are.
We just are, and what happens just happens.
And God says, "No, that's not right."
Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can't teach God anything.
God asks me what I remember.
I remember everything.
The bullet out of Tyler's gun, it tore out my other cheek to give me a jagged smile from ear to ear. Yeah, just like an angry Halloween pumpkin. Japanese demon. Dragon of Avarice.
Marla's still on Earth, and she writes to me. Someday, she says, they'll bring me back.
And if there were a telephone in Heaven, I would call Marla from Heaven and the moment she says, "Hello," I wouldn't hang up. I'd say, "Hi. What's happening? Tell me every little thing."
But I don't want to go back. Not yet.
Just because.
Because every once in a while, somebody brings me my lunch tray and my meds and he has a black eye or his forehead is swollen with stitches, and he says:
"We miss you Mr. Durden."
Or somebody with a broken nose pushes a mop past me and whispers:
"Everything's going according to the plan."
Whispers:
"We're going to break up civilization so we can make something better out of the world."
Whispers:
"We look forward to getting you back."
Backrow Baptist
Oct 3 2008, 03:48 PM
QUOTE (Peter T Chattaway @ Oct 3 2008, 04:25 PM)
Backrow Baptist wrote: : Can you paste that here? My memory of the book's ending is probably a little fuzzy.
Are the OnFilm archives no longer accessible? In that case:
29
Tyler's standing there, perfectly handsome and an angel in his everything-blond way. My will to live amazes me.
Me, I'm a bloody tissue sample dried on a bare mattress in my room at the Paper Street Soap Company.
Everything in my room is gone.
My mirror with a picture of my foot from when I had cancer for ten minutes. Worse than cancer. The mirror is gone. The closet door is open and my six white shirts, black pants, underwear, socks, and shoes are gone.
Tyler says, "Get up."
Under and behind and inside everything I took for granted, something horrible has been growing.
Everything has fallen apart.
The space monkeys are cleared out. Everything is relocated, the liposuction fat, the bunk beds, the money, especially the money. Only the garden is left behind, and the rented house.
Tyler says, "The last thing we have to do is your martyrdom thing. Your big death thing."
Not like death as a sad, downer thing, this was going to be death as a cheery, empowering thing.
"It has to be big," Tyler says. "Picture this: you on top of the world's tallest building, the whole building taken over by Project Mayhem. Smoke rolling out the windows. Desks falling into the crowds on the street. A real opera of a death, that's what you're going to get."
I say, no. You've used me enough.
"If you don't cooperate, we'll go after Marla."
I say, lead the way.
"Now get the fuck out of bed," Tyler said, "and get your ass into the fucking car."
So Tyler and I are up on top of the Parker-Morris Building with the gun stuck in my mouth.
We're down to our last ten minutes.
The Parker-Morris Building won't be here in ten minutes. I know this because Tyler knows this.
The barrel of the gun pressed against the back of my throat, Tyler says, "We won't really die."
I tongue the gun barrel into my surviving cheek [one of his cheeks was ripped open in a fight, earlier in the book] and say, Tyler, you're thinking of vampires.
We're down to our last eight minutes.
The gun is just in case the police helicopters get here sooner.
To God, this looks like one man alone, holding a gun in his own mouth, but it's Tyler holding the gun, and it's my life.
You take a 98-percent concentration of fuming nitric acid and add the acid to three times that amount of sulfuric acid.
You have nitroglycerin.
Seven minutes.
Mix the nitro with sawdust, and you have a nice plastic explosive. A lot of the space monkeys mix their nitro with cotton and add Epsom salts as a sulfate. This works, too. Some monkeys, they use paraffin mixed with nitro. Paraffin has never, ever worked for me.
Four minutes.
Tyler and me at the edge of the roof, the gun in my mouth, I'm wondering how clean this gun is.
Three minutes.
Then somebody yells.
"Wait," and it's Marla coming toward us across the roof.
Marla's coming toward me, just me because Tyler's gone. Poof. Tyler's my hallucination, not hers. Fast as a magic trick, Tyler's disappeared. And now I'm just one man holding a gun in my mouth.
"We followed you," Marla yells. "All the people from the support group. You don't have to do this. Put the gun down."
Behind Marla, all the bowel cancers, the brain parasites, the melanoma people, the tuberculosis people are walking, limping, wheelchairing toward me.
They're saying, "Wait."
Their voices come to me on the cold wind, saying, "Stop."
And, "We can help you."
"Let us help you."
Across the sky comes the _whop, whop, whop_ of police helicopters.
I yell, go. Get out of here. This building is going to explode.
Marla yells, "We know."
This is like a total epiphany moment for me.
I'm not killing myself, I yell. I'm killing Tyler.
I am Joe's Hard Drive.
I remember everything.
"It's not love or anything," Marla shouts, "but I think I like you."
One minute.
Marla likes Tyler.
"No, I like you," Marla shouts. "I know the difference."
And nothing.
Nothing explodes.
The barrel of the gun tucked in my surviving cheek, I say, Tyler, you mixed the nitro with paraffin, didn't you.
Paraffin never works.
I have to do this.
The police helicopters.
And I pull the trigger.
30
In my father's house are many mansions.
Of course, when I pulled the trigger, I died.
Liar.
And Tyler died.
With the police helicopters thundering toward us, and Marla and all the support group people who couldn't save themselves, with all of them trying to save me, I had to pull the trigger.
This was better than real life.
And your one perfect moment won't last forever.
Everything in heaven is white on white.
Faker.
Everything in heaven is quiet, rubber-soled shoes.
I can sleep in heaven.
People write to me in heaven and tell me I'm remembered. That I'm their hero. I'll get better.
The angels here are the Old Testament kind, legions and lieutenants, a heavenly host who works in shifts, days, swing, Graveyard. They bring you your meals on a tray with a paper cup of meds. The Valley of the Dolls playset.
I've met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, "Why?"
Why did I cause so much pain?
Didn't I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness?
Can't I see how we're all manifestations of love?
I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God's got this all wrong.
We are not special.
We are not crap or trash, either.
We just are.
We just are, and what happens just happens.
And God says, "No, that's not right."
Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can't teach God anything.
God asks me what I remember.
I remember everything.
The bullet out of Tyler's gun, it tore out my other cheek to give me a jagged smile from ear to ear. Yeah, just like an angry Halloween pumpkin. Japanese demon. Dragon of Avarice.
Marla's still on Earth, and she writes to me. Someday, she says, they'll bring me back.
And if there were a telephone in Heaven, I would call Marla from Heaven and the moment she says, "Hello," I wouldn't hang up. I'd say, "Hi. What's happening? Tell me every little thing."
But I don't want to go back. Not yet.
Just because.
Because every once in a while, somebody brings me my lunch tray and my meds and he has a black eye or his forehead is swollen with stitches, and he says:
"We miss you Mr. Durden."
Or somebody with a broken nose pushes a mop past me and whispers:
"Everything's going according to the plan."
Whispers:
"We're going to break up civilization so we can make something better out of the world."
Whispers:
"We look forward to getting you back."
Cool. Thanks. So why change the ending to blowing up the buildings? I can't explain why, but the film's ending seemed right at the time. Of course it plays completely differently post 9/11. But the book ends one such a existential/ spiritually note that I can't help but wonder why they changed it.
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