We'd read some fairly mediocre reviews, but since my wife had read the book, she wanted to see it. The mediocre reviews are apt, I think. It's not bad, but it's never going to be considered a classic. One white girl guided to finding love and strength by way of 4 black women (and a couple of men as well).
A bit of Womanist New Age before there was New Age religion.
Full Version: Secret Life of Bees
I think it's kinda funny how three of the four black actresses were all known for their singing, before they turned to acting -- and yet there is no singing in this movie! I also can't decide if the fourth actress -- the non-singer -- got the most "actorly" part or not.
I do think Dakota Fanning is maturing well enough, though. She's in that awkward stage where there aren't all that many good roles -- she's too old for the cute-kid parts, and too young for the grown-up parts -- but I think she's making the transition well enough.
- - -
Bees, but No Bible
Faith-based marketing companies are pitching The Secret Life of Bees to church leaders with a "Bible study" that has no evangelical content—or Scripture.
CT Movies, October 22
- - -
Oh, one other thought: A colleague and I were discussing afterwards how odd it is to see a movie these days (post-JFK, say; but perhaps also post-The Right Stuff) in which Lyndon Johnson is made out to be such a hero.
I do think Dakota Fanning is maturing well enough, though. She's in that awkward stage where there aren't all that many good roles -- she's too old for the cute-kid parts, and too young for the grown-up parts -- but I think she's making the transition well enough.
- - -
Bees, but No Bible
Faith-based marketing companies are pitching The Secret Life of Bees to church leaders with a "Bible study" that has no evangelical content—or Scripture.
CT Movies, October 22
- - -
Oh, one other thought: A colleague and I were discussing afterwards how odd it is to see a movie these days (post-JFK, say; but perhaps also post-The Right Stuff) in which Lyndon Johnson is made out to be such a hero.
See also the list of 'Ya-Ya Sisterhood Bulls---' cliches to which this film conforms, as itemized by CulturePulp's Mike Russell.
QUOTE (Peter T Chattaway @ Oct 27 2008, 01:43 AM) 
Oh, one other thought: A colleague and I were discussing afterwards how odd it is to see a movie these days (post-JFK, say; but perhaps also post-The Right Stuff) in which Lyndon Johnson is made out to be such a hero.
Makes one wonder how W will be remembered in 40 years.
Movie is based on first novel by Sue Monk Kidd, who is currently writer-in-residence at the Sophia Institute. I think we could have predicted that.
I suffered through her second novel, The Mermaid Chair, in audiobook form--the only advantage of which was that it allowed many opportunities for shouting things at the protagonists like, "You eejit!" and "Are you kidding me?!" or "Not the ritual bonding circle by the sea!" The writing wasn't so great, either.
I suffered through her second novel, The Mermaid Chair, in audiobook form--the only advantage of which was that it allowed many opportunities for shouting things at the protagonists like, "You eejit!" and "Are you kidding me?!" or "Not the ritual bonding circle by the sea!" The writing wasn't so great, either.
I haven't read her 1st book, but you're right - the 2nd one was pretty terrible!
My wife loved this film - and I liked it. Here is my review.
The spirituality of the film I found fascinating. The Black Madonna represented by the African woman “coming out of a tree” is a blend of Christian/Tribal worship that is not that uncommon throughout the world. The evidences of it in our own expression of faith with the use of the Christmas Tree and the December celebration of Jesus’ birth is well known.
I didn’t put it in my review or in the questions, but the song that went through my head is that a popular church Christmas song written in 1951 by Whila Hutson and Alfred S. Burt (a white Church organist living in Detroit - along with her pastor's son Alfred):
Some children see Him lily white,
the baby Jesus born this night.
Some children see Him lily white,
with tresses soft and fair.
Some children see Him bronzed and brown,
The Lord of heav'n to earth come down.
Some children see Him bronzed and brown,
with dark and heavy hair.
Some children see Him almond-eyed,
this Savior whom we kneel beside.
some children see Him almond-eyed,
with skin of yellow hue.
Some children see Him dark as they,
sweet Mary's Son to whom we pray.
Some children see him dark as they,
and, ah! they love Him, too!
The children in each different place
will see the baby Jesus' face
like theirs, but bright with heavenly grace,
and filled with holy light.
O lay aside each earthly thing
and with thy heart as offering,
come worship now the infant King.
'Tis love that's born tonight!
At what point our faith becomes something different is a question we have struggled with since the first missionaries entered other cultures. In some places our requirement of the new converts living their lives in a “western Christianity” form has created unjustifiable burdens. But when we blend our faith with the culture of the area then we end up with expressions that can feel as though the faith has become something other than Christian. I find this film a good expression of the latter and presents us with a good case study for discussion.
Denny
The spirituality of the film I found fascinating. The Black Madonna represented by the African woman “coming out of a tree” is a blend of Christian/Tribal worship that is not that uncommon throughout the world. The evidences of it in our own expression of faith with the use of the Christmas Tree and the December celebration of Jesus’ birth is well known.
I didn’t put it in my review or in the questions, but the song that went through my head is that a popular church Christmas song written in 1951 by Whila Hutson and Alfred S. Burt (a white Church organist living in Detroit - along with her pastor's son Alfred):
Some children see Him lily white,
the baby Jesus born this night.
Some children see Him lily white,
with tresses soft and fair.
Some children see Him bronzed and brown,
The Lord of heav'n to earth come down.
Some children see Him bronzed and brown,
with dark and heavy hair.
Some children see Him almond-eyed,
this Savior whom we kneel beside.
some children see Him almond-eyed,
with skin of yellow hue.
Some children see Him dark as they,
sweet Mary's Son to whom we pray.
Some children see him dark as they,
and, ah! they love Him, too!
The children in each different place
will see the baby Jesus' face
like theirs, but bright with heavenly grace,
and filled with holy light.
O lay aside each earthly thing
and with thy heart as offering,
come worship now the infant King.
'Tis love that's born tonight!
At what point our faith becomes something different is a question we have struggled with since the first missionaries entered other cultures. In some places our requirement of the new converts living their lives in a “western Christianity” form has created unjustifiable burdens. But when we blend our faith with the culture of the area then we end up with expressions that can feel as though the faith has become something other than Christian. I find this film a good expression of the latter and presents us with a good case study for discussion.
Denny
Denny Wayman wrote:
: The evidences of it in our own expression of faith with the use of the Christmas Tree and the December celebration of Jesus’ birth is well known.
I can't speak to the Christmas tree business, but FWIW, the dating of Jesus' birth to December is a little more complicated than many people think. Not only was it influenced by factors other than the repurposing of pagan tradition, there is even evidence to suggest that it was the pagans who were copying the Christians. To quote an article that appeared in Touchstone magazine a few years ago:
: The evidences of it in our own expression of faith with the use of the Christmas Tree and the December celebration of Jesus’ birth is well known.
I can't speak to the Christmas tree business, but FWIW, the dating of Jesus' birth to December is a little more complicated than many people think. Not only was it influenced by factors other than the repurposing of pagan tradition, there is even evidence to suggest that it was the pagans who were copying the Christians. To quote an article that appeared in Touchstone magazine a few years ago:
Many Christians think that Christians celebrate Christ’s birth on December 25th because the church fathers appropriated the date of a pagan festival. Almost no one minds, except for a few groups on the fringes of American Evangelicalism, who seem to think that this makes Christmas itself a pagan festival. But it is perhaps interesting to know that the choice of December 25th is the result of attempts among the earliest Christians to figure out the date of Jesus’ birth based on calendrical calculations that had nothing to do with pagan festivals.For whatever that's worth.
Rather, the pagan festival of the “Birth of the Unconquered Son” instituted by the Roman Emperor Aurelian on 25 December 274, was almost certainly an attempt to create a pagan alternative to a date that was already of some significance to Roman Christians. Thus the “pagan origins of Christmas” is a myth without historical substance. . . .
Peter,
Thanks for the article. I'm afraid that this is one of those topics that can be a "dualing experts" type of issue.
For example here is an article which was posted in August on the CHRISTIAN HISTORY site. The article originally was printed in Christianity History Magazine in 2000. It says, in part:
Denny
Thanks for the article. I'm afraid that this is one of those topics that can be a "dualing experts" type of issue.
For example here is an article which was posted in August on the CHRISTIAN HISTORY site. The article originally was printed in Christianity History Magazine in 2000. It says, in part:
QUOTE
Why December 25?
For the church's first three centuries, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar at all.
Elesha Coffman | posted 8/08/2008 12:33PM ...
It's very tough for us North Americans to imagine Mary and Joseph trudging to Bethlehem in anything but, as Christina Rosetti memorably described it, "the bleak mid-winter," surrounded by "snow on snow on snow." To us, Christmas and December are inseparable. But for the first three centuries of Christianity, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar anywhere.
If observed at all, the celebration of Christ's birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church's earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.
Not all of Origen's contemporaries agreed that Christ's birthday shouldn't be celebrated, and some began to speculate on the date (actual records were apparently long lost). Clement of Alexandria (c.150-c.215) favored May 20 but noted that others had argued for April 18, April 19, and May 28. Hippolytus (c.170-c.236) championed January 2. November 17, November 20, and March 25 all had backers as well. A Latin treatise written around 243 pegged March 21, because that was believed to be the date on which God created the sun. Polycarp (c.69-c.155) had followed the same line of reasoning to conclude that Christ's birth and baptism most likely occurred on Wednesday, because the sun was created on the fourth day.
The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.
Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.
For the church's first three centuries, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar at all.
Elesha Coffman | posted 8/08/2008 12:33PM ...
It's very tough for us North Americans to imagine Mary and Joseph trudging to Bethlehem in anything but, as Christina Rosetti memorably described it, "the bleak mid-winter," surrounded by "snow on snow on snow." To us, Christmas and December are inseparable. But for the first three centuries of Christianity, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar anywhere.
If observed at all, the celebration of Christ's birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church's earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.
Not all of Origen's contemporaries agreed that Christ's birthday shouldn't be celebrated, and some began to speculate on the date (actual records were apparently long lost). Clement of Alexandria (c.150-c.215) favored May 20 but noted that others had argued for April 18, April 19, and May 28. Hippolytus (c.170-c.236) championed January 2. November 17, November 20, and March 25 all had backers as well. A Latin treatise written around 243 pegged March 21, because that was believed to be the date on which God created the sun. Polycarp (c.69-c.155) had followed the same line of reasoning to conclude that Christ's birth and baptism most likely occurred on Wednesday, because the sun was created on the fourth day.
The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.
Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.
Denny
Denny Wayman wrote:
: Thanks for the article. I'm afraid that this is one of those topics that can be a "dualing experts" type of issue.
You're welcome -- and thanks for the other article! If I were a university student again, this is totally the sort of thing I'd pursue in some depth.
: Thanks for the article. I'm afraid that this is one of those topics that can be a "dualing experts" type of issue.
You're welcome -- and thanks for the other article! If I were a university student again, this is totally the sort of thing I'd pursue in some depth.
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