This is one of those that I think will be a better experience the less you know going in. I knew next to nothing about it going in, and I had a wonderful, thought-provoking evening.

So, without saying ANYTHING about the plot...

Fine performances, lo and behold Tautou DOES have another sort of performance in her after all, and Frears delivers yet another totally unique film, further cementing his reputation for me as the most versatile and unpredictable director working today.

Plus, I had the surprise privilege of being there when the star (whose name I can't possibly remember how to spell at the moment, and I'm too sleepy to look it up) suddenly showed up for a post-viewing question and answer. Some interesting stuff there that I'll share later...

Now I must get some shuteye.

[img]http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0301199/dirtyprettythings.jpg[/img]
P.S. This is a much better poster than the American release poster.

Hey has this only come out over there?

I caught it on DVD a month or so ago, and it is a great film. Lead actor (Chiwetel Ejiofor) is fantastic.

Its a bit gritty, but a great film

Matt

It opens on August 1st here in the states.

I'm trying to decide if I think it's Frears' best film.

Let's see... (* indicates I've seen it)

*Dirty Pretty Things (2002)
Liam (2000)
Fail Safe (2000) (TV)
*High Fidelity (2000)
Hi-Lo Country, The (1998)
Van, The (1996)
Mary Reilly (1996)
*Snapper, The (1993) (TV)
*Hero (1992)
*Grifters, The (1990)
*Dangerous Liaisons (1988)
Sammy and Rosie Get Laid (1987)
Prick Up Your Ears (1987)
Walter and June (1986)
My Beautiful Laundrette (1985)
Hit, The (1984)

Well, clearly I'm no authority on the man. But I think this one would challenge "Dangerous Liaisons" as my favorite of those I've seen. "High Fidelity" is great too, and I enjoyed "The Snapper."

Liam is a sad and beautiful movie. It expresses so much regarding guilt, faith, sin, grace and humanness and I found the way it ties them all together in the life of a young Irish, Catholic boy and his family remarkably well done.

My Beautiful Laundrette I would pass on.
Mary Reilly...I wouldn't even look at the picture on the vhs or dvd cover.

Just for interest what was the US poster?

Matt

[img]http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0301199/DPT_poster2.jpg[/img]

WAH WAH WAAAAH.

i'm going tomorrow night. :crazy3:

-s.

PS that icon is supposed to be sticking its tongue out at you because i am going tomorrow night, and nothing more than that. I don't know if it gets the point across effectively, therefore this small footnote.

I thought you were just responding to the U.S. poster, stef.

...which, by the way, follows in the grand tradition of the American poster for "Red", trying to lure people in with the promise of a sexy French actress, when in fact we do not see her bare-shouldered or anything close to it in the film. In fact, she's not even the main character.

although she is sexy....


But that poster is totally misleading, and a bit sick, given y'know.


Matt

I haven't seen this film yet -- I believe it opens tomorrow -- but I have to say, the trailer has had me chuckling every time I see it. "How come we didn't see you?" "Because we are the people you do not see." Oooooh, spooky. The first time I saw it was with my friend Charlie -- the guy who laughed all the way through Eyes Wide Shut -- and when we heard that line, we both went, "Oh, duh! Of course! THAT explains it!"

I'm sure the line is a LOT more serious in context.

It is. In fact, it's quite funny.

I'd say it was more than funny, its almost the point. Shame they gave it away in the trailer.

Matt

Well i caught this tonight and it was an enjoyable two hours. The director seems to mix a trick bag of ideas together and get away with it. It ranges from the status of illegal UK immigrants to organized crime to sexploitation to trying to free yourself of a guilt-ridden past to extracting the ultimate personal revenge on an oppressor. Sounds like a lot, but Frears does a pretty good job of keeping the melting pot from boiling over. Not that there aren't holes in the writing, because if you take a long, hard look, there are some problematic finer details to be sure. But all and all, the story works on a basic level.

Tautou does an OK job -- i would guess that English is not her first language, and trying to throw in a Turkish accent is probably quite hard. The same can be said for the lead actor who played Okwe. His accent wasn't consistent. Overall their acting was believable except for this.

There were some moments where the backgound music (?) was so much fun... Listen for backward effects during crucial moments of stress. I really enjoyed that, and wish they would have used it even more. About 3/4 thru the film it seemed they switched gears and we didn't hear much of that effect anymore. Too bad, cuz i thought it was a very fun and different approach to scoring, or editing in music, whatever the case may be.

It wasn't a bad film by any means, and after the summer i'm just glad to see films that don't have too many high-speed chases and things blowing up. Some solid acting, and a great switcheroo (the part that makes you go "Oh WOW."), but overall not enough to stand out longer than your next trip to the theater.

-s.

Saw this one last night, thought it was pretty good, though not great.

SPOILERS

stef wrote:
: Some solid acting, and a great switcheroo (the part that makes you go
: "Oh WOW.") . . .

Heh. The INSTANT the one guy handed the other guy a drink, I knew what was going on, and my friend leaned over to me and whispered, "I bet he's put something in the drink!" So we waited for the inevitable to happen. But when, a minute or two later, the second guy finally began to get all woozy, something must have finally clicked in the mind of someone sitting a couple rows behind us, because all of a sudden someone let out a loud, shocked "OH!!" My friend and I couldn't help chuckling over that.

Oh, and I thought it was interesting, given how Amelie took so much flak for depicting a Europe without immigrants, that the star of that film should have followed it up with this, a film set in England in which pretty much EVERY character is an immigrant -- the two leads are Nigerian and Turkish, the guy at the crematorium is Asian, the boss at the hotel is Spanish, etc. Even the exceptions, like the black hooker who speaks with a clear British accent and is probably at least as native to that country as I am to North America, tend to have an element of, what's the word, non-indigenousness?

Spoilers.

Well I thought we were meant to get it at the point at which he offers him a drink. That's certainly when I got it. Maybe we're just brilliant?


As for the accents I thought they were really good. Not sure what you mean here Stef.


I thought the twist was brilliant cos 2/3 of the way throught the film I thought it was going to be one of themost depressing films I'd ever seen - I could see no way out for these guys. Course it still should be depressing in that respect cos any imigrant that's not a qualified surgeon, or got a friend that's one is still stuck. I was alo glad it avoided a completely happy ending.


Matt

[quote]
And Frears delivers yet another totally unique film, further cementing his reputation for me as the most versatile and unpredictable director working today.
[/quote]

More than Michael Winterbottom, Jeffrey? For my money, Winterbottom is the most adventurous director working today. I don't like everything he does, but all of his films (24-Hour Party People, The Claim, Wonderland, Welcome to Sarajevo, Jude, and more) are completely different.

But back to Dirty Pretty Things. I agree with Jeffrey. It's a solid film with fine acting performances all around. I particularly liked the lead (Chiwetel Ejiofor) and Sergi Lopez, whom I always like. The story is compelling, and the direction is interesting. Good stuff.

[quote]
I'd say it was more than funny, its almost the point. Shame they gave it away in the trailer.
[/quote]

I kinda wished they had left that piece of dialogue on the cutting-room floor. The film makes its point just fine as long as you're paying attention. Throwing in that line felt like overkill. Still, its politics are in the right place. :wink:

J Robert

I got to it today. Certainly there is a lot to chew on from an ethical perspective.

Spoilers
Okwe seems to have a high moral standard, but steals drugs from the hospital. He chews coca leaves to stay awake. And he drugs a man and steals his kidney. There are reasons for this, and what he is doing is motivated by the good of others, but it does raise the eternally debated question of whether the ends justify the means.

[quote]
Spoilers
Okwe seems to have a high moral standard, but steals drugs from the hospital. He chews coca leaves to stay awake. And he drugs a man and steals his kidney. There are reasons for this, and what he is doing is motivated by the good of others, but it does raise the eternally debated question of whether the ends justify the means.[/quote]

Yes. And I think it also forces us in the audience to think about our own perspective. Obviously, we're emotionally much more willing to overlook the moral implications of Okwe's decisions than we are Juan's. Why is that? Is it only because we've come to like Okwe better, or is it we think that his ends are more honorable? And is either reason enough to overlook the very dubious morality of Okwe's actions?

J Robert

jrobert wrote:
: For my money, Winterbottom is the most adventurous director working
: today. I don't like everything he does, but all of his films (24-Hour Party
: People, The Claim, Wonderland, Welcome to Sarajevo, Jude, and more)
: are completely different.

You have GOT to be kidding. 24 Hour Party People stunned me by not being the sort of downer that all those other films were -- though it had moments where he certainly COULD have reverted to type. If I may be permitted to quote from my review of The Claim:

The films of Michael Winterbottom are a generally downbeat bunch, and it is tempting to think that this may be due somehow to his surname, which brings to mind a bleak, snowy valley of the shadow of darkness and the people who trudge their way through it.

[ snip ]

The Claim is reminiscent of a number of previous Winterbottom films. Like Jude, which had one of the most depressing plot twists I have ever seen, it takes its inspiration from a Thomas Hardy story, in this case, The Mayor of Casterbridge. Like Wonderland, it contrasts murky, naturalistic photography with Michael Nyman's bright, abstract score. And like Welcome to Sarajevo, which was also written by The Claim's Frank Cottrell Boyce, it paints an essentially tragic portrait of the world at large while suggesting that a few people, at least, may be able to rise above the tragedy.

: I kinda wished they had left that piece of dialogue on the cutting-room
: floor. The film makes its point just fine as long as you're paying
: attention. Throwing in that line felt like overkill.

Yeah, I agree.

: Still, its politics are in the right place. :wink:

Yes, I too think it's awful how black-market criminals don't notice the immigrants who work for them.

I'm not sure that the point is that "Okwe seems to have a high moral standard", but rather that here's a guy we can relate to. I don't think we'te meant to think of him as a moral example anymore than we are with the hero in an action movie.

Rather IMHO its about getting the audience to identify with him so the experiences of these people in British society can have attention drawn to their plight and a bit more sympathy. There is a lot of aniti-immigration feeling in the Uk at the moment - mostly thinly veiled racism - and it is very press driven. Against that backdrop the importance of DPT is a bit clearer - it is hopefully part of diffusing a very sensitive / potentially explosive area at the moment in Britain.

Matt

MattPage wrote:
: Rather IMHO its about getting the audience to identify with him so the
: experiences of these people in British society can have attention drawn
: to their plight and a bit more sympathy. There is a lot of
: aniti-immigration feeling in the Uk at the moment - mostly thinly veiled
: racism - and it is very press driven. Against that backdrop the
: importance of DPT is a bit clearer - it is hopefully part of diffusing a very
: sensitive / potentially explosive area at the moment in Britain.

Hmmm. But it seems to me one could take the exact opposite message from DPT -- namely, that immigrants are living in a criminal cesspool in which they coerce each other into unwanted sex and they steal each other's organs and the country would be better off without them. That's certainly not how I interpreted the film, but it sure ain't Guess Who's Coming to Dinner -- the fact that the 'hero' engages in criminal activity as surely as the 'villain' does, does not necessarily make the best case for immigrants, if the film is truly being released in the midst of an anti-immigration backlash.

[quote]
Hmmm. But it seems to me one could take the exact opposite message from DPT -- namely, that immigrants are living in a criminal cesspool in which they coerce each other into unwanted sex and they steal each other's organs and the country would be better off without them.[/quote]

Certainly that is a direction we can go. It may not have been his point, but there are several things in the film that "accidentally" expose the "uselessness" of illegal immigrants. One is that there is the impression that they will always be there. They will always be coming and going. They will always be doing the dirty jobs. That is just part of the system. That and they "all" catch VD at some point, and probably from the same woman. The film does a big wink-wink at this one.

The other thing that hints at this in the film though is the way in which the story is set up. The director really isolates our two heroes throughout the film and never really relates them to society other than the fact that they are breaking the law. That is what characterizes them for the most part. And the only apology (in the literary sense of the word) the script gives them is that cheesy cheesy line at the end when Okwe says something like:

"We are the ones that drive your cabs, and wash your shirts...We are the ones you DON'T see."

I felt ripped off after hearing that line, what a weak conclusion.

[quote]
You have GOT to be kidding. 24 Hour Party People stunned me by not being the sort of downer that all those other films were -- though it had moments where he certainly COULD have reverted to type. [/quote]

Well the tone might be the same, but the genres, editing styles, approaches are all over the place. I mean, you have a rollicking po-mo music rockumentary, a literary adaptation, a political film, an Altman-like Western, etc. And his latest film sounds like something that could come out of Iran. I don't know any other director with such a range of styles.

J Robert

[quote]Hmmm. But it seems to me one could take the exact opposite message from DPT -- namely, that immigrants are living in a criminal cesspool in which they coerce each other into unwanted sex and they steal each other's organs and the country would be better off without them.[/quote]Well IIRC correctly the only co-ercing of sex was done by legitimate immigrants (both of whom in the current climate would be seen as on "our side" by the moral majority, though not the out and out right wingers). I don't think many would interpret the film in that way.[quote]there are several things in the film that "accidentally" expose the "uselessness" of illegal immigrants. [/quote]
: One is that there is the impression that they will always be there. They will always be coming and going.

Well as long as we keep oppressing the hell of out poorer countries I think they will, my only hope is that we can make them more legal.


: They will always be doing the dirty jobs. That is just part of the system.

Well not many IIs make it to Prime minister, granted, but I think the films negativity over the plight of IIs wasn't saying they were useless. In fact having the main II as a skilled and qualified doctor would seek to dispel the notion that they are "useless" rather than reinforce it surely?


: That and they "all" catch VD at some point, and probably from the same woman. The film does a big wink-wink at this one.

Not big enough for me to catch it - care to point it out? Again though given that neither of the main two characters catch VD from this (British) woman I don't see how you can claim that.[quote]The other thing that hints at this in the film though is the way in which the story is set up. The director really isolates our two heroes throughout the film and never really relates them to society other than the fact that they are breaking the law. That is what characterizes them for the most part.[/quote]I think though that reflects the reality - they are largely unseen & isolated prevented from entering our society because of rules that keep them out and hatred that saps the desire to try. And in that context - one where the class sytem is very present and very unaware of how those lower down the ladder really live - I think the line works. In British society at the moment immigrants are largely hated, mistrusted, demonised and set in a system where all the rules are against them, despite the fact that most of them are hardworkers either escaping in terror, or making mighty sacrifices to work their way into a better life. And IMHO the film redresses the balance as well as can be expected.

Matt

[quote]
Not big enough for me to catch it - care to point it out? Again though given that neither of the main two characters catch VD from this (British) woman I don't see how you can claim that.[/quote]

Yeah, it is at the taxi headquarters, first the boss catches it, then all the guys line up. It just struck me as an interesting way to bring a bit of levity into the film, as most of the audience did chuckle at it. Another point of levity in the same vein is at the end where the prostitute signals when Okwe lists her "dirty" job that goes unseen every day. Those two things just struck me more as sad than comical. Otherwise, I think your points are all germane in response.

I really didn't think the film was that good at all, so I didn't take anything it said as an effective or important political statement. I know little of the plight of illegals in the British system anyway, but the way you paint the picture makes it sound little different than it is over here.

I'm entirely with Matt on this one. For a film with this much heart, savvy and craftsmanship, people's sniping about accents and plot details they picked up seconds before they were revealed seem, I don't know, petty? Superficial? Even cynical? But hey - I'm mad at my dog this morning, and I'm the guy who will defend a film like it's my mother, so don't take this too seriously.

Saw the film last night and loved it. Took Jeffrey's advice to go into it knowing as little as possible in advance (not that I usually do otherwise, but his comment made me more scrupulous than usual in avoiding information). I'm glad of that: after the film I read the reviews they post on the lobby walls at the Fifth Avenue, and was appalled at the shitty reviewing: plot summaries (right down to strong hints about the final reversal) with a few opinionations thrown in. Only Mr Ebert had enough regard for his readers or the film makers to go easy on the spoilers.

The performances were remarkable: I not only loved Ejiofor and Tatou, I thought Benedict Wong as the guy working in the hospital crematorium turned in an utterly memorable performance (maximizing the effect of a well-written and distinctive character).

SPOILER
One reversal I particularly liked was in our perception of the guy who runs the sweatshop. We meet him sitting quietly, immobile, working intently in the middle of a busy room. When all the women clear out, we fear he'll get caught by the immigration cops - maybe he's deaf or something? Somebody help the guy! But then he calmly talks to the officers, deftly gets rid of them, and because we perceive them as predators, threats to Senay, he feels like a hero. Almost immediately, though, he exerts his own power over Senay in a sickening scene (rendered all the more terrible by what we've come to know about this Muslim woman's chastity, and her desire not to be like her mother) - a dazzling, understated series of reversals at exactly the point in the film's narrative structure where things turn most suddenly (and, it seems, irrevocably) for Senay. Gut-wrenching.

SPOILER
I didn't see the "switcheroo" as being as morally offensive as others on this board. Difficult to sort through, yes. Not a nice, pretty solution to things that would have been more comforting to us sitting safely in the audience. It seemed to me to have a definite rough justice to it, at least as appropriate and satisfying as when the mythical townsfolk of the classic western rise up together and take action to rid themselves of the evil presence amongst them; indeed, in its bloody-minded economy of punishments suiting crimes, it seemed almost tragic (I don't mean "sad," I mean this in the Greek or Shakespearean sense, where "the inventions return to plague the hand of the inventor.") But these people were in extraordinarily desperate circumstances, as far beyond the help of the law as any western American pioneers. Okwe can stand by and watch a powerless, victimized woman be subject to a crude operation that may well be botched and cost her either her life or her health, or he can do something that will gain her freedom and quite possibly end the coercive, clearly evil business that's going on in the hotel. He takes every medical precaution to ensure the post-op health of his "new patient" - unless I'm mistaken, "Sneaky" will be perfectly able to survive the operation, indeed far more likely to do so than are the people whose operations he's already overseen. He justifies his commercial enterprise on the (almost convincing, for the moment) basis that everybody wins - he's in the business of increasing everybody's happiness. Fine: if that's so, let him be happy to receive what he has so freely given.

I'm not saying this was a spotless moral act - no more spotless than any number of events in the Old Testament (of which this sort of wild, barbaric justice is reminiscent). No more spotless than the choice of nations to wage war, of criminal lawyers to defend corrupt clients, of police to use crude violence to deal with even more violent criminals, or of people like me to... Well, to make the little moral compromises we make every day. And if we say we don't, we lie, and we call God a liar.

To my eyes, this film is a compassionate but not sentimental portrayal of a group of people who we don't see, and mostly because we'd rather not. Sure the line of dialoge I'm referencing was "on the nose" - but by that point, the film makers had earned the right, I think. Yes, the line sticks out: but I bet it'll come to mind next time I check into a hotel or buy fast food at the drive-through window.


Ron

P.S. Pardon if I've offended. Certainly everybody has a right not to like a particular film. But I see here a movie with integrity, well crafted, that reflects the experience of real human beings whose stories aren't being told, and I think it deserves better than we've been giving it. I mean, we'll dig as hard as we need to to justify the latest philosophically jejune, dramaturgically pathetic and morally bankrupt money-flusher from the Wachowski Bros (just because we loved the first one so much), and then turn up our noses at PRETTY DIRTY THINGS? I don't get it.

P.P.S. But it would probably be in your best interest to agree with Matt and me. I mean, take a good look at our avatars: I'm a man of bronze, with near-superhuman powers, dedicated to eradicating evil-doers and people who don't like the right movies, and Matt is clearly a rugby star who'd be happy to take on all manner of evil-doers, Illegal Immigrant bashers and governors (present or future) of Minnesota OR California. The bike racks. After school. You buncha smart-ass pansies....

Ron... =D>


(That's supposed to be the applauding emoticon, but it's not working on my screen is it working on yours?)

(Sniff...) Ron, that was beautiful. I'm looking forward to seeing this film.

[quote]
I mean, we'll dig as hard as we need to to justify the latest philosophically jejune, dramaturgically pathetic and morally bankrupt money-flusher from the Wachowski Bros (just because we loved the first one so much), and then turn up our noses at PRETTY DIRTY THINGS? I don't get it.[/quote]

I wouldn't put those words in everyone's mouth. That is a harsh generalization. (Some of us haven't even seen the film you are referring to.) I turn my nose up at the film because it just isn't that good. I can't believe they actually released the film with some of the dialogue how it is. This one gets the award this year for: cheesiest most underwhelming dialogue this year. So my reservations are more production oriented than theme oriented.

I like what Edelstein said: "Dirty Pretty Things doesn't quite cut to the bone, but it does get as far as a couple of vital organs." That is fitting. I wonder how well this film would faired critically in the Fall mad rush of quality films, probably not so well as it has now. Sitting in the theater I felt like I was watching an evening BBC made for TV film on large screen.

[quote][quote]
I mean, we'll dig as hard as we need to to justify the latest philosophically jejune, dramaturgically pathetic and morally bankrupt money-flusher from the Wachowski Bros (just because we loved the first one so much), and then turn up our noses at PRETTY DIRTY THINGS? I don't get it.[/quote]

I wouldn't put those words in everyone's mouth.
[/quote]
WELL I WOULD!!! In fact, I just did. So there, now you've said it - "I bow down and worship at the altar of the Wachowskis" - and that proves you're REALLY DUMB!!!! And so is everyone. So there.

[quote]I turn my nose up at the film because it just isn't that good. [/quote]
Oh yeah? Well IT TURNS UP ITS NOSE AT YOU, then.

[quote]
I can't believe they actually released the film with some of the dialogue how it is. [/quote]
Oh yeah? Well... You wouldn't know good dialogue if it came up and talked to you!

[quote]This one gets the award this year for: cheesiest most underwhelming dialogue this year. [/quote]
That's it, then, (M). The bike racks.


Ron

I think this worm virus has infected Ron, and it's having a sort of "hulking out" effect on him.

[quote]

Ron[/quote]

:yellow: :evilimu:

MattPage wrote:
: Well IIRC correctly the only co-ercing of sex was done by legitimate
: immigrants (both of whom in the current climate would be seen as on "our
: side" by the moral majority, though not the out and out right wingers).

Ah. Well, your original post didn't distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants. In fact, one thought I had while writing that earlier post was that this film might get away with its "revenge" plotline partly because the person against whom this revenge is gotten is, himself, an immigrant. If Okwe had done what he did to a white, native-born Brit (or if Tautou's character had done what she did to a white, native-born Brit), I imagine this film would be considered a lot more politically didactic, a lot more left-leaning, a lot more critical of the British establishment, etc. As it is, the film suggests that even legal immigrants are part of this seedy underclass, which might play into the hands of a more right-leaning sensibility.

Ron wrote:
: Sure the line of dialoge I'm referencing was "on the nose" - but by that
: point, the film makers had earned the right, I think. Yes, the line sticks
: out: but I bet it'll come to mind next time I check into a hotel or buy fast
: food at the drive-through window.

I guess that's one reason why the line felt so stupid to me -- I ALREADY try to treat people like people when I check into hotels or buy fast food at drive-through windows, and I don't think I'm alone in that. The sermonizing at the end of the film felt not only sanctimonious, but it felt like it was addressed at a very narrow segment of the audience.

Which is not to say that this wasn't a good film for the most part, mind -- I do like many of the things you point out, regarding the employer at the "sweat shop", etc.

Just wanted to point out that on a 7 page thread of The Matrix 2 (sorry can't remember it's official title), i think i posted twice, therefore i am a prime candidate to keep this thread alive.

[quote]As for the accents I thought they were really good. Not sure what you mean here Stef. [/quote]

They were good when they were consistent, yes. But they weren't consistent. A french actress trying to speak English with a Turkish accent has got to be a tough assignment. She did OK, it's just that every once in a while i could see thru both of them.

ALERT: SPOILER QUESTION:

Where did the heart come from? And whose was it? And why was it in the toilet and not some rich guy's chest? And did some poor stupid illegal immigrant really decide that a passport was worth his ticker? :roll:

-s.

stef wrote:
: ALERT: SPOILER QUESTION:
: Where did the heart come from? And whose was it? And why was it in the
: toilet and not some rich guy's chest? And did some poor stupid illegal
: immigrant really decide that a passport was worth his ticker? :roll:

Oh, good points, all!

Because, as Sneaky said, sometimes the surgeries go wrong. I took it to mean that they had cut the guy into pieces and flushed him down the toilet... and that the heart just wouldn't go down.

Or perhaps there are OTHER surgeries going on that sometimes go wrong.

I guess that didn't really bother me much. It may as well have been a liver or something.

[quote]ALERT: SPOILER QUESTION:

Where did the heart come from? And whose was it? And why was it in the toilet and not some rich guy's chest? And did some poor stupid illegal immigrant really decide that a passport was worth his ticker? :roll:

-s.[/quote]Yeah good point - although did you get it off IMDB? It would seem a bit of a strange way to get rid of someon by chopping them into pieces small enough to fit in a loo - it reminds me of "Shallow Grave" - and therir they were only after much bigger pieces. Given that it was an illegal immigrant - throwing it in the river would probably hav been just as efficient.

PPerhaps, but then maybe not as well.

Matt

[quote]Yeah good point - although did you get it off IMDB?[/quote]

I don't think so. I started this line of thinking, and now it's on websites everywhere.

[quote]i want 2 say sorry 4 making my master so cranky this morning i was barking a lot really early + so he had 2 get up 2 early + so he was cranky

actually he's really nice butt he got carried away

because of me


Chloe[/quote]

What the heck?? We've got talking dogs here at Promontory?! Compare that to my little girl typing her first post here at like four months old and it's obvious we are truly the greatest on forum on earth.

-s.

I thought she did all of your posts.

:wink:

Matt

[quote][quote]Yeah good point - although did you get it off IMDB?[/quote]

I don't think so. I started this line of thinking, and now it's on websites everywhere.

-s.[/quote]

As soon as I saw the heart I thought back to that overplayed short film about organ-theft and groaned within myself. I wondered some of the same things about the heart, and specifically: If the heart didn't flush down the toilet, then how did they get the femur in there. Or the skull for that matter.

I think they used the heart for the image value. Here is a human heart in the toilet. Just like thousands of illegal immigrants stuck in holes in the city trying to make it to freedom.

Deleted, since the system logged me out and then switched my "edit" to a "quote" when I logged back in.

(M)Leary wrote:
: As soon as I saw the heart I thought back to that overplayed short film
: about organ-theft and groaned within myself.

Which short film is that?

: I think they used the heart for the image value. Here is a human heart in
: the toilet. Just like thousands of illegal immigrants stuck in holes in the
: city trying to make it to freedom.

Good guess, I think. Which raises the question of how much narrative logic we can sacrifice for the benefit of making a thematic point through impressive visuals.

QUOTE

Good guess, I think.  Which raises the question of how much narrative logic we can sacrifice for the benefit of making a thematic point through impressive visuals.

Thank you for not saying "begs the question."

I watched this a second time last night, and it really holds up, especially due to the performances and the cinematography. Benedict Wong steals the scenes he's in as the morgue worker. "Good at chess, bad at life."

Here's another one I hope the voters see before voting.

Man, Tautou's character is so vulnerable, naive, and destined for suffering. You half expect Lars Von Trier to pop up, cackling ghoulishly, and stealing her away to be the subject of his next cruel invention.

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Which short film is that?
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I can't remember the name. It is a pretty classic recent short-film (mid 80's I think) that you will see pop up on most short film shows every now and then. It is a horribly made, amateurish work of hackmanship. A guy goes into the bar and meets a pretty girl...yada yada yada...he wakes up in a bathtub full of ice with a note on his chest that tells him to call 911 immediately. He looks down and notices that several of his organs are missing.

At first I wasn't a very big fan of Dirty Pretty things, but it has grown on me over the months. I think the only problems I have with it are a few scenes that are just strange and awkward. Off the top of my head, the scene where she is dancing around her apartment really broke up the stream of the film for me.

I would be up for nominating Wong for supporting actor. He was a crack up at times.

Finally saw this today. Really enjoyed it. Chiwetel Ejiofor is great as always. He's slowly becoming a favourite of mine. Also loved Benedict Wong. A good character film. Also, since I'm watching this film so late in the game, it was nice to see Sergi Lopez as Sneaky, especially after Pan's Labyrinth.

Welcome to the DPT fan club, good sir. I remain head over heels for this one - such great performances, etc, etc.

The one element that still gives me problems is the heart in the drain that kicks things off. At the level of realism, it makes no sense to me. And if it's meant only to be symbolic, it seems out of keeping with the rest of the film. Anybody help me out with that?

R

The wife and I are puzzling over the same thing. I'm convinced it's symbolic.

I still love it too, and recommend it whenever I can.

I so wish Frears and DPT-writer Steven Knight had re-teamed for Eastern Promises. It would have made a great followup. But Cronenberg had to go and make it an excuse to slit throats open in close-up, show the "hero" all but raping a prostitute in a prolong and admiring shot, and stir up buzz with naked Viggo wrestling. Blecccch.

Did y'all realize that inbetween these two films, Knight wrote Amazing Grace?!