Full Version: Straw Dogs
Has anyone else seen this controversial 1971 film starring Dustin Hoffman? I just saw it the other night and I'm very interested in hearing other's thoughts on it. After just recently seeing Gaspar Noe's Irreversible I can't help but compare the two; and while that was a powerful and disturbing film, I can't help but think now that Starw Dogs is by far the superior one.
Interesting. We all know about my love/hate affair with Irreversible, the film that affected me forever in both good and bad ways, the film that i will recommend for no other human to wander into without warning. However, i tried to watch Straw Dogs a few months ago and was so utterly bored to tears in the first hour that i shut it off and never returned. It was, to me, another example of (as previously noted in The Wicker Man thread), bad English filmmaking.
I take it it was all uphill from an hour in? What did i miss?
-s.
I take it it was all uphill from an hour in? What did i miss?
-s.
Dustin Hoffman's reduction to the primal man, bent upon survival and a deep-seated need for vengeance for all the wrongs perpetrated upon society and every foul ill suffered by man since his inception.
Not much.
Not much.
stef:
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| We all know about my love/hate affair with Irreversible, the film that affected me forever in both good and bad ways, the film that i will recommend for no other human to wander into without warning. |
Indeed, your and Leary's comments on that here made the final decision in my choice to see this movie or not. I've found that I've been much, much more discriminating about my choices of film lately (granted, my average has dropped only from 1.5/day to 1/day, but nonetheless...). Despite your warnings, I was floored by the scene of murder near the beginning -- actually much more so than the rape scene. And, of course, the end is not at all "happy" as some have claimed. Indeed, I can think of few films that end in such a depressing manner (although I must admit I thought the use of the poster for Kubrick's 2001 was brilliant in the context).
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| However, i tried to watch Straw Dogs a few months ago and was so utterly bored to tears in the first hour that i shut it off and never returned. |
That's OK, I'm bored to tears by most silent films -- even the ones I've liked, such as Metropolis and The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.
At what point, exactly, did you turn it off?
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| It was, to me, another example of (as previously noted in The Wicker Man thread), bad English filmmaking. |
It was shot in England, but Peckinpah, the director, was American.
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| I take it it was all uphill from an hour in? What did i miss? |
Jason:
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| Dustin Hoffman's reduction to the primal man, bent upon survival and a deep-seated need for vengeance for all the wrongs perpetrated upon society and every foul ill suffered by man since his inception. Not much. |
I'm not sure what your use of the smilie means here Jason. Is this a series answer or is it tongue-in-cheek?
If it's series I disagree entirely with your summation.
Dustin Hoffman's character is practically the only character in this film who is not reduced to "the primal man." All of his violence and, indeed, all of his actions throughout the entire film are calculated. He is a mathematician. Get it? I've read a few reviews and even quotes from Peckinpah of the film and nobody seems to have noticed this. It's based off a novel -- I'd be interested to hear from it's author.
I knew next to nothing about this film before watching it -- I got it through Netflix and I honestly can't even remember why I picked it. After watching it, of course, I read the reviews and watched it with the commentary track. The commentator was the only one who seemed to understand the film at all the way I had.
To say this is a movie about vengence or violence is true, but it is a vast oversimplification. I compared this movie to Irreversible because they are both movies about a failed marriage, a rape of a wife and the killing of the rapist (in fact, in both cases by someone other than the husband). To phrase it in a Hitchcockian sense, the violence in the film is a "MacGuffin." The point of the film is delivered in the last line of dialog where Hoffman's character is confronted with a truly primal man.
| QUOTE (Darryl A. Armstrong @ Aug 30 2004, 06:41 PM) |
| After just recently seeing Gaspar Noe's Irreversible I can't help but compare the two; and while that was a powerful and disturbing film, I can't help but think now that Starw Dogs is by far the superior one. |
I haven't seen Irreversible, but I detested Straw Dogs when I saw it on video, back in my college days. And I'm a Peckinpah fan! The rape scene was just hideous.
Make sure you do some research into Peckinpah's own comments about the film, and that scene in particular. It was very controversial in its day, and Peckinpah's comments about it were less than reassuring. The guy clearly has a misogynistic streak in him, and this wasn't the only rape scene he filmed.
As for comparisons, here's a recommendation: watch Once Were Warriors, from New Zealand. The lack of commentary comparing that film with Straw Dogs is very surprising. The themes are the same, and the final shot and final line of dialogue are dead ringers for the earlier film, if I recall.
Christian:
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| The rape scene was just hideous. |
Yes, it is a hideous scene. Actually, in my opinion more hideous than the one in Irreversible largely due to Peckinpah's incredible editing. It evokes some rather Freudian notions of sex -- and Freud really creeps me out most of the time.
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| Make sure you do some research into Peckinpah's own comments about the film, and that scene in particular. It was very controversial in its day, and Peckinpah's comments about it were less than reassuring. The guy clearly has a misogynistic streak in him, and this wasn't the only rape scene he filmed. |
I've read a few of his comments and I won't disagree with you, but I don't think the film should be dismissed out-of-hand because of that scene or because of the graphic violence (which, of course, isn't all that graphic compared to say, The Passion). Certainly, it's not an easy film to watch and I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but I get the feeling it's really been misunderstood by the majority of critics. Granted, Peckinpah could easily be seen as baiting a knee-jerk response, but the same could be said of mant filmmakers.
| QUOTE |
| As for comparisons, here's a recommendation: watch Once Were Warriors, from New Zealand. The lack of commentary comparing that film with Straw Dogs is very surprising. The themes are the same, and the final shot and final line of dialogue are dead ringers for the earlier film, if I recall. |
Thanks. I'll do that sometime...
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| I'm not sure what your use of the smilie means here Jason. Is this a series answer or is it tongue-in-cheek? |
Darryl--
Yes, it was tongue-in-cheek.
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Hmm... I picked up the Criterion copy of this last year when it was going OOP... I think I'll have to watch it. I'm not sure I'm looking too forward to it, however.
When I was high school age, I stayed home one evening to babysit my sibs, late into the night. Read The Seige Of Trencher's Farm - which was later adapted into STRAW DOGS. Have rarely been that gripped by a story - or that scared. Primal, yes sir. And sure, stef, he was a mathematician and there was an element to the film that showed his ability/tendency to draw on that analytical prowess in dealing with the attackers, but that doesn't negate the theme of a cilvilized man reduced to something very primal in defence of his home, his wife and himself.
Viewed the film a few years ago, and it didn't have nearly the power the book had had: though I expect that's partly because I don't have nearly the capacity to be affected by such a story now, partly because what was current then is dated now, and maybe partly because the film fell short of what it could have been.
And yes, in the film, I found the "women really want it" rape theme really troubling - and notice that it's a theme that shows up a lot in films coming out of the middle of the "sexual revolution" of the late sixties and early seventies. Sexual "liberation," pre- "Women's lib," a particularly noxious concoction.
Viewed the film a few years ago, and it didn't have nearly the power the book had had: though I expect that's partly because I don't have nearly the capacity to be affected by such a story now, partly because what was current then is dated now, and maybe partly because the film fell short of what it could have been.
And yes, in the film, I found the "women really want it" rape theme really troubling - and notice that it's a theme that shows up a lot in films coming out of the middle of the "sexual revolution" of the late sixties and early seventies. Sexual "liberation," pre- "Women's lib," a particularly noxious concoction.
I also picked up the Criterion edition (Ok, I'm a sucker for just about anything they produce). The film can not be dismissed outright. Although I believe Peckinpah is ultimately wrong in his views of the rape/ female sexuality issue, he seemed to be giving it serious thought. The rape scene in "Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia" is very complex. Waren Oats' girlfriend (her name escapes me right now) tells him "I've been here before and you don't know the way." as Kris Kristopherson leads her away to be raped. She has obviously survived a previous assault and is trying to save Oats' life. The rape scene in "High Plains Drifter" is much worse than anything Peckinpah showed. Eastwood stages it as a complete endorsement of the "She really wants it" rape myth. (And I like most of Eastwood's other films.) Chris M, what did you think?
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