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Jason Bortz
Opus, you might not want to click me.
Overstreet
That headline AND this one on the same day?

Jamie Foxx is gonna be cruisin' to the Jan Hammer theme...

'80s nostalgia is so '90s.
opus
QUOTE (Jason Bortz @ Oct 4 2004, 12:45 PM)
Opus, you might not want to click me.

cry.gif

I saw this last night. Sigh... whatever happened to the John Woo that made The Killer and Hard Boiled? I don't even know you anymore, John.

I've also read that Chow Yun-Fat has decided to not star in Woo's planned Hong Kong production, a big historical epic type film. Chow Yun-Fat not starring in a John Woo film?!? These are surely the end times, folks.
Baal_T'shuvah
QUOTE (Luke Skywalker - The Empire Strikes Back)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!  Noooooooooooooooooooo....  (snivel)
glatisant
QUOTE (opus @ Oct 4 2004, 02:36 PM)
I've also read that Chow Yun-Fat has decided to not star in Woo's planned Hong Kong production, a big historical epic type film.  Chow Yun-Fat not starring in a John Woo film?!?  These are surely the end times, folks.

Hmm, is this production the one that's supposed to be on the Battle of Chibi from Romance of the Three Kingdoms? And Chow's not gonna be in it? Has anyone heard why?

Incidentally, there is a character in that novel named He Man.
utzworld
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
theoddone33
I have to suspect that America is catching on to the facts that a) having seen Mission Impossible 2 doesn't make you an Asian film fan and B) John Woo is incredibly overrated. Now the Hollywood studios just need to catch on and everything will be right with the world.
Michael Huang
I think I speak for my avatar when I say that this is a crying shame.

biggrin.gif
stef
I don't know, it kinda seemed like the appropriate place to share something i wrote in my journal just a few days ago...

10/01/04 - Paycheck* (john woo) [Worst Film I have ever seen in my Life. Period.]

After that miserable mess, i vow to never again view a John Woo OR a Ben affleck movie.

So there. tongue.gif

And anyway, is it only me or does He-MAn remind you of Hans and Frans?

-s.
opus
I should point out that there's a vast difference between John Woo's Hollywood output and his Hong Kong output. Unfortunately, Hollywood has ripped him off so much that his classic films (i.e. The Killer, Hard Boiled) may seem almost trite in comparison. Such that if you see his films now, you might wonder what the big deal is. And of course, Woo hasn't done much to defend the brand lately, so to speak.

Now Johnnie To... there's an overrated director.
stef
QUOTE (opus @ Oct 4 2004, 11:09 PM)
I should point out that there's a vast difference between John Woo's Hollywood output and his Hong Kong output. Unfortunately, Hollywood has ripped him off so much that his classic films (i.e. The Killer, Hard Boiled) may seem almost trite in comparison. Such that if you see his films now, you might wonder what the big deal is. And of course, Woo hasn't done much to defend the brand lately, so to speak.

Agreed.

QUOTE
Now Johnnie To... there's an overrated director.


Who??

-s.
opus
Johnnie To is the new, hip Hong Kong director on the scene (although he's been directing films since the 80s). He first made his name directing F/X-laden sci-fi martials flicks like The Heroic Trio, and then really made his name directing ultra-stylish, melodramatic gangster flicks like A Hero Never Dies and The Mission. However, for all of their style and panache, they've almost always left me unsatisfied. At best, his films come close to touching the genius of Woo's work (The Mission, and Fulltime Killer is absolutely brilliant at times). However, when they're bad, they're absolutely wretched (PTU, Throwdown). However, his films are very love or hate, and those that love his films really love them.
theoddone33
QUOTE (opus @ Oct 4 2004, 11:09 PM)
I should point out that there's a vast difference between John Woo's Hollywood output and his Hong Kong output.

Now Johnnie To... there's an overrated director.

Can't comment on Woo's HK work much. I thought Bullet in the Head was terrible. From his American canon, only Face Off was decent, with Windtalkers a distant second.

Interestingly enough I got into a "Johnnie To is overrated" discussion just the other day. The events that followed taught me to never again state that a director's films are "style over substance". Have you seen Breaking News yet? It left me a little disappointed, but it's got a lot of interesting things in it.

Generally To's films are above-average and entertaining, but I don't think they are as special as people seem to think. Fulltime Killer was the only real To film I really really liked, while Running on Karma was a good film and probably second or third best out of HK all last year.
twitch
QUOTE (theoddone33 @ Oct 4 2004, 11:36 PM)

Can't comment on Woo's HK work much. I thought Bullet in the Head was terrible. From his American canon, only Face Off was decent, with Windtalkers a distant second.

Interestingly enough I got into a "Johnnie To is overrated" discussion just the other day. The events that followed taught me to never again state that a director's films are "style over substance". Have you seen Breaking News yet? It left me a little disappointed, but it's got a lot of interesting things in it.

You really have to see The Killer and Hard Boiled before commenting too much on Woo. He's got his share of dross, yes, but those two are absolutely brilliant.

As for Breaking News the opening sequence is INCREDIBLE - and also an obvious nod to the long hospital shot in Woo's Hard Boiled - but the rest is pretty flat. The guy just doesn't write very good characters. I probably enjoyed Running On Karma the most of any To stuff I've seen and that's largely thanks to the compellingly strange latex muscle suit that he's got Andy Lau stuffed into ...
Jason Bortz
Woo used to rock. Seriously. Woo was, like, the ultimate to the gunplay fan. The intricacy and score of his action choreography was by far the greatest of the genre--return to the years Hard Boiled and Killer released and find a comparable flick to date. IMO, Ringo Lam and Tsui Hark came close in some respects, but Woo was superior in his grit-noir symphonies of chaos and order, and Hard Boiled still reigns as king of bullet-time action flicks.

And then he came to the states, Hollwood said 'Americans like it diff'rent here' and emasculated him with the likes of faux-talents Jean-Claude Van Damme and Christian Slater and the rest is torpid, anguished history.
opus
QUOTE (Jason Bortz @ Oct 5 2004, 10:27 AM)
And then he came to the states, Hollwood said 'Americans like it diff'rent here' and emasculated him with the likes of faux-talents Jean-Claude Van Damme and Christian Slater and the rest is torpid, anguished history.

I feel I must confess that I actually like(d) Broken Arrow. It was the first Woo film I ever saw, I was young and naive, and it's a bit nostalgic for me. Of course, it was during that film that I realized John Travolta's career would increasingly consist of mugging it up for the camera from that point on.
Jason Bortz
See, I'd seen Woo's Chinese stuff (along with all the other amazing stuff over there) for several years when Arrow released--and I was like, "JOHN!!! HARD TARGET WAS THE EXCEPTION, NOT THE RUUUULE!"

Inre: Travolta? Absolutely. My wife and I go back and forth on that one. He bores me utterly.
Baal_T'shuvah
QUOTE (Jason Bortz @ Oct 5 2004, 08:27 AM)
Hollywood said 'Americans like it diff'rent here' and emasculated him with the likes of faux-talents Jean-Claude Van Damme and Christian Slater and the rest is torpid, anguished history.

You're still being too kind in reguards to Mr Van Damme's talents. laugh.gif

That being said, I wonder which version of Bullet in the Head theoddone saw. I remember seeing this at the Grand Illusion theatre in Seattle back in late '93, when they were showing quite a bit of Woo's Honk Kong films. There are two different endings, one of which is a ridiculous car chase that I caught on an Asian cinema cable channel. Definitely not the one I saw in the theatre. Maybe it was seeing it up on screen that made the difference, but I found this to be a very good film.
theoddone33
QUOTE (Baal_T'shuvah @ Oct 5 2004, 07:44 AM)
That being said, I wonder which version of Bullet in the Head theoddone saw. 

The one on Netflix, which does end with a ridiculous chase.

I thought it was too long... too much Simon Yam shooting at air in Vietnam... too much Jacky Cheung overacting (sadly parodied in As Tears Go By). Even Tony Leung couldn't save it for me after the 1 hour mark, which was sad because I thought it started out very well. I do need to check out The Killer and Hard Boiled... they'll go on my list of films I still need to check out, which is approaching three or four hundred films.

Back on Johnnie To, I think twitch's statement was about the most accurate thing I've read about him. "He just doesn't write characters well" sums it up quite nicely.
opus
QUOTE
I thought it was too long... too much Simon Yam shooting at air in Vietnam... too much Jacky Cheung overacting (sadly parodied in As Tears Go By). Even Tony Leung couldn't save it for me after the 1 hour mark, which was sad because I thought it started out very well.  I do need to check out The Killer and Hard Boiled... they'll go on my list of films I still need to check out, which is approaching three or four hundred films.

I also saw the version that ended with the chase (here's my review), and while I remember liking it a bit more than you, I also found it pretty preposterous at times (especially car chase/shootout, which was just ridiculous). You definitely need to see both of those Woo films. The themes are pretty similar to those in Bullet - loyalty, brotherhood, dualities, etc. - but done with a much surer hand.

One more thought on To... I just saw One Nite In Mongkok earlier this week, and it's easily one of the best HK films I've seen since Infernal Affairs. It's the sort of film To was probably trying to make with PTU, only with solid characters and a much more engaging storyline.
theoddone33
One Nite in Mongkok is one of this year's best so far, but I personally thought that last year's Lost in Time was much better. Same director. Those are the first two movies he's made after a long (10 year?) hiatus and they both are excellent.

Edit: Just saw that another To flick, Yesterday Once More, starts in theaters in HK this month. It stars Sammi Cheng and Andy Lau. As all To flicks do, it certainly sounds intriguing. I'll have to remember it a few months from now when the DVD is making the rounds.
opus
QUOTE (theoddone33 @ Oct 5 2004, 09:40 PM)
One Nite in Mongkok is one of this year's best so far, but I personally thought that last year's Lost in Time was much better. Same director. Those are the first two movies he's made after a long (10 year?) hiatus and they both are excellent.

Yes, Lost In Time is an excellent movie. Very emotional, but thankfully nowhere near as cloying or melodramatic as HK dramas are wont to be.
opus
Just saw this on Twitch... John Woo does Espianoge For Dummies. blink.gif

John... why? Just get around to remaking Le Cercle Rouge, and we can pretend that past few years and movies never happened.
MattPage
Wow the world is a weird place.

First of all someone came up with the idea of these action figures. They all had the same body, but wer just painted differently and had different heads (some didn't even have different heads - e.g. Adam, but you could get away with that cos its was a toy and people needed to be able to keep up)

Then there was a TV series cartoon spin off. From this a few new characters spawned, and we began to realise that compared to Prince Adam, Clark Kent was a master of disguise. (Seriously - how did anyone not know. Adam you're stacked even if you're not He Man you should still be pretty useful)

There was also a comic which I think I had one issue of.

Then there was a She-ra lame-o spin off.

And then there was a terrible film version with Dolph Lungren - best forgotten. In fact you'd think all Hollywoo would hang its head in shame, bury and make sure no-one ever dug their again.

And now we're getting the remake of a film based on a cartoon, based on some action figures with the same bodies*

Mad mad world

Matt

*Ok Battle Cat, Man at arms, the chicks and the guy I had who had three faces werer all a bit of a variation, but most of them were later additions.
Shantih
QUOTE
From this a few new characters spawned, and we began to realise that compared to Prince Adam, Clark Kent was a master of disguise. (Seriously - how did anyone not know. Adam you're stacked even if you're not He Man you should still be pretty useful)


That was the bizzare thing about He-Man. Prince Adam was always regarded as a playboy and a layabout by everyone in the Court. (Esp. Teela) So basically Adam's 'secret identity' was to make himself as useless a person, and a shame to his parents as possible. He's either really terrified someone will find out his identity (a stupid fear as the palace got attacked every other week. If he thought he were putting the king, queen, Teela et al. in danger by revealing the truth it wouldn't make a difference to their day to day lives) or He-Man is his deep rooted inferiority complex exerting itself upon him.

Needless to say, I'm not holding out for Woo having a go at explaining all these ambiguities. I reckon he'll go straight for the ass-kicking. Just this feeling I have...

Phil.
MattPage
"Adam... has anyone ever said you like a bit like...oh never mind...no ...it was nothing..."

theoddone33
QUOTE(opus @ Oct 5 2004, 12:34 PM)
One more thought on To... I just saw One Nite In Mongkok earlier this week, and it's easily one of the best HK films I've seen since Infernal Affairs.  It's the sort of film To was probably trying to make with PTU, only with solid characters and a much more engaging storyline.
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A short and spoiler-ridden, but insightful review of One Nite In Mongkok has been posted here. It's a film that's definitely worth seeking out. Sadly I think the HK saturation of the genre spoiled it for me a little.
opus
QUOTE(theoddone33 @ Nov 5 2004, 01:50 AM)
A short and spoiler-ridden, but insightful review of One Nite In Mongkok has been posted here.  It's a film that's definitely worth seeking out.  Sadly I think the HK saturation of the genre spoiled it for me a little.
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And my review is right here.
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