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Not only that but Green Day's lyrics are whiny and trite. I honestly can't see the same two bands being able to stand each other's presence after half an hour.

-s.

I agree. I was done with Holiday after about the second or third listen. It's the same politically charged lyrics over and over again. It gets real old after a while. U2, on the other hand, have focused on making productive change happen in the world, and have done it with far more talent, instead of crying about current political issues. Green Day reminds me of the adolescent highschool band, albeit with more talent; passionate and loud, but not very mature.

Besides the fact that like Stef said, Green Day's riffs are nothing to scream about. Any talented garage band could do the same thing.

Edited by Joel C

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Besides the fact that like Stef said, Green Day's riffs are nothing to scream about. Any talented garage band could do the same thing.

Ah, but therein lies the intrigue. I like Green Day, although they're about as subtle as a sledgehammer, both musically and lyrically. Obviously U2 has taken a different approach, and their music is heavily layered and textured. Heck, Edge practically defines layered and textured in his guitar playing.

So I'm curious to hear this collaboration. U2 obviously wants to move in a raw, visceral direction. I miss some of the unfiltered garage band elements of albums like Boy, and if Green Day helps them find that again, then more power to them.

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  • 1 month later...

A few notes about the Green Day song and the other new single, "Window in the Sky."

"I like the word 'activist' because it's an action word. I don't like the word 'dreamer,' even though I exhorted myself and others to dream out loud, to turn it up to 11. In the end, you know, I don't like dreaming," he says.
, Bono, in the article.

I write this only to bemusedly note how far Christopher Guest's parody has come.

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  • 1 month later...
Window in the Skies from Japan is on YouTube.

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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  • 9 months later...

For those of you who are interested, PopMart Live from Mexico City was released on DVD this week. I may be alone in my views here but, for me, this tour was a great disappointment. I saw it in Oakland, about 5 shows into the tour, and a lot of the technical bugs with the set still hadn't been worked out. But I also felt that the band just wasn't able to live up to the spectacle of the set, or rather they were dominated by the set, and the music and connection with the audience got lost somewhere beneath the neon and glitter. I watched the Live from Mexico City performance when it aired on HBO, and still felt that something just did not gel on this tour. Don't get me wrong, I love the band, they're my favorite - just not in this format. I've always preferred them in arena's rather than stadiums, the intimacy of their music just lends itself better in a smaller setting. On PopMart, it was almost as if U2 were trying to out do The Rolling Stones at what The Rolling Stones do best - surpassing the spectacle of their surroundings - as The Stones did with the Bridges to Babylon tour, which was launched the same year as PopMart.

Edited by Baal_T'shuvah

Formerly Baal_T'shuvah

"Everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. You just can't let the world judge you too much." - Maude 
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I saw it in Oakland, about 5 shows into the tour, and a lot of the technical bugs with the set still hadn't been worked out.

If you saw them in Oakland, they were much farther into the tour than you think...

I saw them in Dallas, which was the seventh show, and it was clear that they needed much more rehearsal. The new songs really didn't hold together that well and the video wall completely overwhelmed them at that point. They were still at the point of dropping songs and elements of the show that weren't working and Adam Clayton didn't leave Larry Mullen's side as they tried to figure out how to create a strong foundation to hold the songs together. They only loosened up when they were tearing through classic U2 material, such as "Where the Streets Have No Name."

But I also felt that the band just wasn't able to live up to the spectacle of the set, or rather they were dominated by the set, and the music and connection with the audience got lost somewhere beneath the neon and glitter.

That's the feeling I had when I saw them the first time. Sara and I took a road trip to Houston, met up with a friend and bought ninth row seats from a scalper (less than face value!) outside the Astrodome the day after Thanksgiving, and saw a completely different performance. The show was essentially a dress rehearsal for the video they would make at the next stop in Mexico City, with identical setlist and staging.

I watched the Live from Mexico City performance when it aired on HBO, and still felt that something just did not gel on this tour.

Well I think that the Mexico City show was a fairly poor performance compared to what they did in Houston a week before. I don't think Bono took into account what the altitude and pollution of Mexico City would do to diminish his voice. He sounded very weak and out-of-breath compared to the full-throated singing in Houston.

The show worked very well in Houston... too bad they didn't make their video a week earlier.

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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If you saw them in Oakland, they were much farther into the tour than you think...

Wow! I guess I saw them 22 shows into the tour... and they still hadn't worked out the bugs! In a way, that actually makes the PopMart tour an even greater disappointment, knowing now that they'd had months instead of a week or two to iron things out.

Formerly Baal_T'shuvah

"Everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. You just can't let the world judge you too much." - Maude 
Harold and Maude
 

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If you saw them in Oakland, they were much farther into the tour than you think...

Wow! I guess I saw them 22 shows into the tour... and they still hadn't worked out the bugs! In a way, that actually makes the PopMart tour an even greater disappointment, knowing now that they'd had months instead of a week or two to iron things out.

It is my understanding that they only had about four or five days of rehearsal in Las Vegas to sort everything out (all the technical issues, the selection of songs, staging, learning how to perform the new material live, etc.) before opening night. They had painted themselves into a corner by scheduling the tour long before the album was finished... so when the album took much longer than they expected (like almost all of them do), they had almost no time to prepare for the tour. The scheduling of the tour forced a premature close to the recording sessions for Pop as well. They were still mixing and recording the album on the day it had to be delivered to the label so that CDs could be created and the marketing provided to get it out to the public before the tour began. As the story goes, the lyrics to the chorus of the song "Last Night on Earth" were written and recorded at 4 a.m. on the last day about the time that Bono had completely lost his voice.

A few years ago I heard Bono say that the PopMart tour didn't really start to come together until the Chicago shows (after Oakland near the end of the first leg).

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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@U2 and other sites are reporting that a 20th anniversary edition of The Joshua Tree will be released in November in 3 formats:

1) remastered album + 24-page booklet

2) 5" hardcover booklet + remastered album + bonus rarities disc

3) all of the above + DVD of a Joshua Tree-era concert in Paris.

I'm no fan of buying classic albums over and over every time they're updated/remastered/enhanced with bonus tracks, etc. However, this one excites me, even without all the extra bells and whistles. The Joshua Tree album is in desperate need of a sonic upgrade. I just hope they truly remaster it rather than just making it sound "louder." Hopefully since it's such a signficant album in the history of rock they'll do it right.

It would also be nice to hear some of the rarely heard music from the Joshua Tree recording sessions on the extra disc, beyond the b-sides that we've all heard numerous times.

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The Joshua Tree is in one of the albums that I find myself calling my favorite album ever. Depends on which day you catch me. The others that occasionally convince me to change my mind are Peter Gabriel's Passion, Peter Gabriel's So, and Leslie Phillips The Turning. But usually, it's The Joshua Tree.

So yeah, I'd jump all over an upgraded release.

P.S.  I COULD BE WRONG.

 

Takin' 'er easy for all you sinners at lookingcloser.org. Also abiding at Facebook and Twitter.

 

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The Joshua Tree album is in desperate need of a sonic upgrade. I just hope they truly remaster it rather than just making it sound "louder."

Have you ever heard the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab remaster of The Joshua Tree?

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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I haven't heard the Mobile Fidelity version and have thus far resisted the urge to pay upwards of $100 for it on the secondary market. When the 20th anniversary edition comes out, I'm sure it will be only a matter of time before someone compares the sound quality of the two.

Have you heard the MoFi version? Is it drastically better than the original CD?

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I haven't heard the Mobile Fidelity version and have thus far resisted the urge to pay upwards of $100 for it on the secondary market. When the 20th anniversary edition comes out, I'm sure it will be only a matter of time before someone compares the sound quality of the two.

Probably... I'm interested to hear how the band will want the album remastered. I hope they put more of a bottom end on the music since modern systems can handle much deeper bass.

Have you heard the MoFi version?

I have all three U2 Mobile Fidelity gold CDs (War, Unforgettable Fire, Joshua Tree). I was fortunate enough to find War and Unforgettable Fire in used CD stores around Fort Worth, and through diligent searches of eBay a few years ago, I found a brand new sealed copy of Joshua Tree for $29.99.

Is it drastically better than the original CD?

It's hard for me to say. The first time I listened to each of the remastered CDs, I noticed definite improvement, but I've never really gone back to the old CDs. I also tend to listen to music differently now (through high-end headphones from lossless files on my iPod as opposed to mid to low end mini stereo equipment in my old apartment). But even on inferior equipment, it sounded better. I don't have the standard Joshua Tree CD anymore, but I'm guessing that Sara has hers somewhere within her massive CD collection. I'll see if I can located it and do a comparison.

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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I have all three U2 Mobile Fidelity gold CDs (War, Unforgettable Fire, Joshua Tree). I was fortunate enough to find War and Unforgettable Fire in used CD stores around Fort Worth, and through diligent searches of eBay a few years ago, I found a brand new sealed copy of Joshua Tree for $29.99.

That's a great deal on the JT remaster! I have been meaning to get the War Mobile Fidelity CD not so much for the sound quality but because, as I'm sure you know, it has slightly different versions of a few of the songs compared to the standard CD, most notably "Seconds." The War MoFi is easier to find than the other two and usually cheaper, but I haven't bought it yet. This discussion makes me think that I need to get a copy soon.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Not new album news, but a set of releases for the 20th anniversary of Joshua Tree (from http://www.musictap.net/):

One of the more interesting release news is the reissue of Joshua Tree (1987) from U2 by their label, Island Records. The album is being remastered and hopefully signals the beginning of an extensive overhaul of the U2 Catalogue, especially the earlier stuff. Joshua Tree is a good start. This planned reissue will release as a standard CD, a double LP, a 2CD Deluxe Edition, and a 2CD/1DVD Deluxe Edition
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More about the Joshua Tree re-release from @U2.com:

In related news, our friends at U2Valencia.com are reporting that The Joshua Tree's 20th Anniversary release is reporting that it won't be available until December 10, not November as previously thought. They have been able to confirm that the commemmorative edition will include the Paris Hippodrome concert from July 4, 1987. They also have confirmed it will include Outside It's America, the documentary directed by Barry Devlin and originally broadcasted on MTV.
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Probably... I'm interested to hear how the band will want the album remastered. I hope they put more of a bottom end on the music since modern systems can handle much deeper bass.

Alas, this is how remastering is often approached. It's analogous to colorizing Citizen Kane.

I don't want the album changed from the way it was originally conceived and performed (where I'm sure the bass was rich and deep), I just want the remastered version to be able to take advantage of a broader spectrum of sound... much like the difference between the mixes of the cassette version (the format in which I originally owned this album) and the CD version.

"Colorizing Citizen Kane" would be obviously be changing the creators intent for the look of a work of art. I was alive and well during 1985-1986, the era when The Joshua Tree was conceived, recorded and mixed, and I can assure you that while the bottom end of the musical spectrum certainlly existed in live performances, it rarely made it into the final mix in recordings because of the limitations of the home users mainstream equipment.

And please notice, I am "interested to hear how the band will want the album remastered." I trust their instincts in this. So please spare me the comparison to those who believe that they should colorize older films. It is incredibly insulting!

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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I'm still offended that they ever put the Beatles on CD. I mean, Beatles albums were recorded for vinyl.

And don't get me started on those Billie Holliday cassette tapes.

P.S.  I COULD BE WRONG.

 

Takin' 'er easy for all you sinners at lookingcloser.org. Also abiding at Facebook and Twitter.

 

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QUOTE

Probably... I'm interested to hear how the band will want the album remastered. I hope they put more of a bottom end on the music since modern systems can handle much deeper bass.

Alas, this is how remastering is often approached. It's analogous to colorizing Citizen Kane.

Good Lord! Will was hardly calling for Citizen Kane to be colorized. Surely you'd concede that it's possible for an album to be remastered to actually sound BETTER rather than just "louder" or "different?" That's all we're hoping for with the JT re-release.

U2 remastered individual tracks for their Best of 1980-1990 and 1990-2000 albums, and the results were pretty good IMHO. Then again, they also re-recorded many of the songs from Pop in order to make them sound like they came from All That You Can't Leave Behind. That was a mistake.

Edited by morgan1098
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Woah guys. All I said was "adding low end to old recordings that didn't have them is analogous to colorizing old films."

I'd be happy to unpack that for you.

It means that the character and artistry of the original works is being compromised for the sake of contemporary fashions and market trends.

The tendency to crank the low end on rock recordings is one such trend, and it's not primarily happening because "modern systems can handle deeper bass". Partly because of the growing success of bass-heavy genres (hiphop/dance music), there is a tendency among mastering engineers to hit the low end really hard. The low-end gets turned up and run through multi-band compression to make the resulting master "competitive". It's a parallel trend to the Loudness Wars. From an engineer's perspective, there's too much low end on many modern rock recordings and remasters--It's corny and forced sounding.

I don't think I follow your argument about home stereos in the 80s. It's true that mastering engineers in the eighties were dealing with the limits posed by the frequency response of vinyl and that did affect some of the choices made at the mastering stage. That doesn't mean "the low end didn't make it to the final mix."

I am not clingly nostalgically to old formats. Remastering is often a very good idea for CDs produced in the early years of the format because of the significant advances in A/D conversion technology since then. A/D converters are much more transparent than they used to be, especially for the high transients and a new transfer from the original tapes can mean you hear much more of the music. But the opportunity presented by this advance in technology is lost when choices are dictated by market trends rather than fidelity to the original creative vision. The goal should be transparency--to make it sound as much as possible like the original analog mix produced by the mix engineer. The goal should not be to make it sound more like a theoretical "live performance" or more like a contemporary recording.

Eno/Lanois mixes in general aren't that bottom-heavy and don't need to be. When the Eno catalog was recently remastered by Astralwerks, they did it right: just getting a nice clean transfer without mucking up the original EQ; they're everything a remaster is supposed to be. Alas, I doubt Eno will have any sway over the process--and those awful remixes of the Pop material don't give me a lot of faith that the band will do this right.

Edited by Holy Moly!
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and those awful remixes of the Pop material don't give me a lot of faith that the band will do this right.

I know I originally brought these up, but it should be noted that the Pop songs were actual remixes (and in some cases, parts were actually re-recorded) rather than simply a case of remastering the existing tracks. With the Joshua Tree, they're apparently just remastering the original album.

Pop remixes aside, what did you think of the remastering of older tracks on the Best of 1980-1990 and 1990-2000 albums (songs remastered in their original forms such as Until the End of the World, One, The First Time, Pride, I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Sunday Bloody Sunday, etc.)? I thought they sounded pretty darn good, certainly better than the original CD versions, and not particularly "bottom heavy." But I'm no audio expert.

Remastering is often a very good idea for CDs produced in the early years of the format because of the significant advances in A/D conversion technology since then. A/D converters are much more transparent than they used to be, especially for the high transients and a new transfer from the original tapes can mean you hear much more of the music.

The Joshua Tree seems a perfect fit for this category. I'm not saying the upcoming remaster is guaranteed to sound better while remaining consistent to U2's original intent, but the potential certainly exists. Here's hoping!

Edited by morgan1098
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Wow! A probable tracklist for the deluxe edition of JT has surfaced at www.hmv.co.uk. If this turns out to be legit, it's going to be a glorious release. The last four songs on disc 2 have never been released anywhere, as far as I know. ("Beautiful Ghost" was on the iTunes "Complete U2" release.) Plus on the DVD there is the infamous and rarely seen promo video for Red Hill Mining Town. Good grief. This has everything at JT fan could want. Actually probably too much since the unreleased songs are likely of questionable quality. But it will certainly be interesting to hear some of the other musical ideas U2 was kicking around while making their first masterpiece.

Disc One

* 1. Where The Streets Have No Name

* 2. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For

* 3. With Or Without You

* 4. Bullet The Blue Sky

* 5. Running To Stand Still

* 6. Red Hill Mining Town

* 7. In God's Country

* 8. Trip Through Your Wires

* 9. One Tree Hill

* 10. Exit

* 11. Mothers Of The Disappeared

Disc Two

* 1. Luminous Times (Hold On To Love)

* 2. Walk To The Water

* 3. Spanish Eyes

* 4. Deep In The Heart

* 5. Silver And Gold

* 6. Sweetest Thing

* 7. Race Against Time

* 8. Where The Streets Have No Name [single Edit]

* 9. Silver And Gold [sun City Version]

* 10. Beautiful Ghost / Introduction To Songs Of Experience

* 11. Wave Of Sorrow (Birdland)

* 12. Desert Of Our Love

* 13. Rise Up

* 14. Drunk Chicken / America

Disc Three - DVD

* 1. I Will Follow [Live From Paris]

* 2. Trip Through Your Wires [Live From Paris]

* 3. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For [Live From Paris]

* 4. MLK [Live From Paris]

* 5. Unforgettable Fire [Live From Paris]

* 6. Sunday Bloody Sunday [Live From Paris]

* 7. Exit [Live From Paris]

* 8. In God's Country [Live From Paris]

* 9. The Electric Co. [Live From Paris]

* 10. Bad [Live From Paris]

* 11. October [Live From Paris]

* 12. New Year's Day [Live From Paris]

* 13. Pride (In The Name Of Love) [Live From Paris]

* 14. Bullet The Blue Sky [Live From Paris]

* 15. Running To Stand Still [Live From Paris]

* 16. With Or Without You [Live From Paris]

* 17. Party Girl [Live From Paris]

* 18. ''40'' [Live From Paris]

* 19. Outside It's America

* 20. With Or Without You

* 21. Red Hill Mining Town

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