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Peter T Chattaway

Narnia: Pre-release discussion of LWW

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Links to threads on the Narnia books as well as the film versions of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005), Prince Caspian (2008) and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (2010).

Curious. I wonder which two books they are leaving out -- or are they planning to smoosh books together (a la that video which combined, I think, Prince Caspian and Voyage of the Dawn Treader)?

- - -

Weta already working on Narnia film

15 November 2003

By BESS MANSON

Work on The Narnia Chronicles has started at Peter Jackson's Weta Workshop.

A spokeswoman for Weta confirmed it was working on the $170 million film project, but refused to go into detail.

Secret negotiations have been going on for months among Walden Pictures, Economic Development Minister Jim Anderton and Bob Harvey, mayor of Waitakere, where much of the filming is expected to take place.

No official announcement has been made that the project would go ahead.

But Weta Workshop prosthetic and makeup artist Gino Acevedo was quoted in an interview with an Italian website that work had begun on The Narnia Chronicles.

He described the project as another Lord of the Rings "because it's a huge story -- seven books".

The project, led by New Zealand director Andrew Adamson, who won an Oscar for directing Shrek, would be a huge boost for the Kiwi film industry.

It is expected to be the first of five films based on CS Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia books, and has the potential to top The Lord of The Rings in economic spinoffs for New Zealand.

Acevedo joined Jackson's crew five years ago to work on the Rings trilogy. He said he had been contacted by Oscar-winning special effects guru Richard Taylor two years before to work on King Kong when it was originally on schedule.

Acevedo also told Caltanet Cinema website that people at Weta began work on Kong five months ago, mainly sculpting dinosaur maquettes. The Universal-backed film, with an expected budget of about $200 million, got the go-ahead earlier this year.

Weta Workshop, based in Wellington, has sparked the interest of many production companies since the success of the Rings films.

It has been involved in work on Russell Crowe's latest film, Master and Commander; The Last Samurai, starring Tom Cruise, filmed in New Zealand this year; and Neon Genesis Evangelion, based on a Japanese cartoon series.

Jackson said a film project involving Richard Gere had also been looking at Weta's facilities.

Edited by Peter T Chattaway

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If they were to drop two, I'd expect them to be A Horse and His Boy and The Silver Chair since in the former, the original four children are side characters and in the latter none of the original four are in the story. Of course, then you miss Puddleglum.

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Then again, The Silver Chair DOES have characters who would be familiar to viewers of the earlier films, like Eustace and Caspian. I think the more natural film to drop would be The Magician's Nephew. Like A Horse and His Boy, it's basically a flashback, and filming it would mean losing the forward momentum of the series.

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Yeah, I always liked The Magician's Nephew as well, though if one was going to include it, I would think one would begin with it (however, The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe is easily the most recognized of the tales, and thus first in production). Pehaps they will deal with it in flashbacks, inserted into the other films?

I could definitely see them forgoing The Horse and His Boy, even though it's also one of my favorites, because really all it does is set up the re-establishment of the monarchy of Archenland (kind of a restoration of sorts). And I could definitely see them trying to squash Caspian and Dawn Treader into one book (however, I'm not sure how it would turn out, either over-long or too brief).

Either way, the involvement of WETA workshops is good news for everyone.

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Anders wrote:

: Yeah, I always liked The Magician's Nephew as well, though if one was

: going to include it, I would think one would begin with it (however, The

: Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe is easily the most recognized of the

: tales, and thus first in production).

Well, there's also the fact that TLtWatW was the first of these books to be published, and probably also the first of these books to be written. TMN was never meant to kick off the series -- even if Lewis himself eventually said he preferred reading them in the chronological order rather than the published order -- but was clearly meant for readers who were already familiar with TLtWatW.

: Pehaps they will deal with it in flashbacks, inserted into the other films?

The only film where you'd really need a flashback might be TLtWatW, in which we see how Jadis came to exist in Narnia in the first place. You might also want to hint that the Professor had been to Narnia himself when he was a lad -- but personally, I always felt a bit cheated by that revelation. In TLtWatW, the force of the Professor's belief in Narnia hinges entirely on the logic with which he analyzes Lucy's testimony; this is supposed to encourage those of us who, e.g., have never encountered the resurrected Jesus to logically accept the claims of those women (and others) who claimed to have encountered him. It thus came as a bit of a disappointment to discover in TMN that the Professor actually did NOT believe in Narnia because of Lucy's testimony, but because he had been there himself; logic had no effect on his views whatsoever.

: I could definitely see them forgoing The Horse and His Boy, even though it's

: also one of my favorites, because really all it does is set up the

: re-establishment of the monarchy of Archenland (kind of a restoration of sorts).

Isn't that also the only book that begins and ends in Narnia? All the others begin and end in our world, except perhaps The Last Battle, which I think starts in Narnia but ends in a completely other place (and anyway, TLB also features a heavy contingent of characters from our world, as do all the other books except for THaHB).

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(In TLtWatW)You might also want to hint that the Professor had been to Narnia himself when he was a lad -- but personally, I always felt a bit cheated by that revelation. In TLtWatW, the force of the Professor's belief in Narnia hinges entirely on the logic with which he analyzes Lucy's testimony....

I don't think so. I'm a week into directing WARDROBE for Pacific Theatre, and as we dig into the various details of the story, it seems abundantly clear that the professor has himself been to Narnia: that is the best and most obvious explanation for the knowledge he has about the place, about traveling back and forth, about people who return from there. I can see how his certainty about Lucy's wardrobe story in Chapter V could be the result of pure logic, but equally it could be the kind of logic one is most likely to come up with after having had experiences (or at least, other information) that lead one to give weight to such a line of argument. At the end of Chapter V, the question is open: at the end of the book, his wise advice to them seems pretty clearly to indicate that he's got more knowledge (possibly anecdotal, probably first-hand) than they or we had realized.

The Professor, who was a very remarkable man, didn't tell them not to be silly or not to tell lies, but believed the whole story. "No," he said, "I don' t think it will be any good trying to go back through the wardrobe door to get the coats. You won't get into Narnia again by
that
route.... Yes, of course you'll get back to Narnia again some day. Once a King in Narnia, always a King in Narnia. But don't go trying to use the same route twice. Indeed, don't
try
to get there at all. It'll happen when you're not looking for it. And don't talk too much about it even among yourselves. And don't mention it to anyone else unless you find that they've had adventures of the same sort themselves. What's that? How will you know? Oh, you'll
know
alright. Odd things, they say - even their looks - will let the secret out. Keep your eyes open. Bless me, what
do
they teach them at these schools?"

Seems clear to me that Lewis knew all along that Uncle Digory had been there, and this is foreshadowing, plain and simple. (Well, maybe plain, but not necessarily simple, as it functions as much more than a plot device: it's obviously got a lot to say about the Christian life, as well).

I find it intriguing that you, Peter, are more inclined to see the Professor's words in Chapter V as an expression of pure logic, and I to see it as reasoning derived from experience. We're each seeing him in our own image, somewhat, don't you think?

I find the Professor's words at the end of LWW fascinating in a number of ways. The "don't mention it to anyone else unless you find that they've had adventures of the same sort themselves" is fascinating, coming from a writer who was perhaps the pre-eminent Christian apologist of his day. It reminds me, for one thing, that Narnia isn't meant to be an exact parallel to Christian faith: I think people make that sort of one-to-one substitution when they don't think about what's really in the books, but in many ways it's evident that direct parallelism isn't right. The idea that you can know people have been to Narnia by what they say or even how they look is readily elided into a sort of "They'll know we are Christians by our love" idea, but it's not quite that direct.

The detail about not trying to get back to Narnia, but that "it'll happen when you're not looking for it" resonates with something I read from Margaret Visser just yesterday;

Every church does its best (some of them are good at this, others less so, but every church is trying) to help each person recall the mystical experience that he or she has known.

Everyone has had some such experience. There are moments in life when - to use the language of a building - the door swings open. The door shuts again, sooner rather than later. But we have seen, even if only through a crack, the light behind it.

... A mystical experience is before all else an experience, and beyond logic. It is concrete, and therefore unique. It is bigger than the person who experiences it; it is something one "enters."

...(Mystics) are people who believe and convince others that they have been lifted out of this world and have seen a greater truth...

From the point of view of the person experiencing them, privileged moments - those that allow us to see something not normally offered to our understanding - do not last. Regretfully, necessarily, we cannot remain in such an experience. We move on, into the practical, the sensible, the logical and provable, the mundane. But after one such glimpse of possibility, we henceforth know better. .... We may bury this experience, deny it, explain it away-but at any moment something could trigger it, raise it up, recall it. Because it has happened, and cannot unhappen.

One of the consequences of having had a mystical experience is a sense of loss. If only it could have gone on and on, and never had to stop; if only the door would open again! One of the hardest lessons we have to learn in life is that we cannot bring about such an experience, any more than we can make it last. Sex can remind us of it because, like a mystical experience, sex is ecstatic, overwhelming, and delightful; it feels bigger than we are. Drugs can also make us feel as if we're "there" again. So people pursue sex and drugs - experiences they can get, they can have. This other thing, this greater and unforgettable thing, this insight, is not anyone's for the asking. It comes (it always comes, to everyone, at different times and in different ways), and there is no telling what it will be or when or where, let alone how. You can't buy it or demand it or keep it. It is not a chemical reaction, and there is nothing automatic about it.

Now a church (or a temple or a synagogue or a mosque - any religious building) knows perfectly well that it cannot induce in anyone a mystical experience. What it does is acknowledge such experience as any of its visitors has had, as explicitly as it can. A church is a recognition, in stone and wood and brick, of spiritual awakenings. ...A church reminds us of what we have known: And it tells us that the possibility of the door swinging open again remains.

Margaret Visser: from 'The Geometry of Love', Space Time Mystery and Meaning in an Ordinary Church
, a detailed examination of Sant' Agnese fuori le Mura (Rome).

Remarkable stuff. And read alongside The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe in this way, it seems almost a direct commentary on Lewis' book.

(Another aspect of the passage from which I've edited the above quote hadn't struck me before, but jumps now that we've talked about the logic question with reference to Chapter V;

"A mystical experience is before all else an experience, and beyond logic. It is concrete, and therefore unique. It is bigger than the person who experiences it; it is something one "enters."

I'm not trying to do anything like "bolster my argument" by citing her on this: she's talking about "mystical experience," not directly about Christianity or about Narnia. But the quote interacts in interesting ways with the point at hand.

Got to go.

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You make good points, Ron, especially re: the Professor's words at the end of the story. I guess I've just always seen the bit about Lucy running from the wardrobe with news for her siblings of the existence of Narnia as analogous to the women running from the tomb with news for us of the resurrection of Christ -- and the Professor always seemed, to me, like an example to follow, of someone who trusted Lucy because logic pointed towards trusting her, just as Lewis trusted the testimony of the New Testament because logic pointed him in that direction. Discovering that I could NOT follow the Professor's example, because the Professor's belief actually rested on having BEEN to Narnia -- the equivalent of encountering the resurrected Christ personally -- was a bit of a disappointment to me, when I finally got around to reading the other books in the series.

As for the logic thing, I remember being a big Star Trek fan as a kid and worrying about the fact that Spock was not a Christian. I decided in the end that his logic was being filtered through the prejudices of the show's writers ... which, I guess, set me on the path to recognizing that, as the characters keep saying in Woody Allen's Love and Death, "Objectivity is subjective!"

: I find the Professor's words at the end of LWW fascinating in a number of

: ways. The "don't mention it to anyone else unless you find that they've

: had adventures of the same sort themselves" is fascinating, coming from

: a writer who was perhaps the pre-eminent Christian apologist of his day.

Indeed!

: One of the consequences of having had a mystical experience is a sense

: of loss. . . . Sex can remind us of it because, like a mystical experience,

: sex is ecstatic, overwhelming, and delightful; it feels bigger than we are.

I am reminded of that line in Pollock -- "How do you know when you have finished one of your paintings?" "How do you know when you have finished making love?"

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...the Professor always seemed, to me, like an example to follow, of someone who trusted Lucy because logic pointed towards trusting her, just as Lewis trusted the testimony of the New Testament because logic pointed him in that direction. Discovering that I could NOT follow the Professor's example, because the Professor's belief actually rested on having BEEN to Narnia -- the equivalent of encountering the resurrected Christ personally -- was a bit of a disappointment to me, when I finally got around to reading the other books in the series.

You couldn't follow his example, but you could follow his logic: it holds whether he's been to Narnia or not.

Still, I hear you. Another thought occurs to me: while it's true that "Lewis trusted the testimony of the NT because logic pointed him in that direction," it was in fact a prior experience of the transcendent ("joy," in his lexicon) while reading Phantastes on a train ride that initiated his journey into the Kingdom. The logic followed the experience. Lots of other experiences and mind-work followed, all mixed up together, and the culmination of all of them was his eventual conversion. (Check out David Downing's The Most Reluctant Convert for fascinating new scholarship on that process.)

Very few make the journey by logic alone. Which doesn't diminish the importance of the logic: to my mind, Professor Digory's line of thinking holds just as much weight whether he came up with it before or after visiting Narnia.

As for the logic thing, I remember being a big Star Trek fan as a kid and worrying about the fact that Spock was not a Christian.

That's so cute!

I am reminded of that line in Pollock -- "How do you know when you have finished one of your paintings?" "How do you know when you have finished making love?"

Ooh. Good quote. Need to see that movie someday. Always think of it as an "alma mater" movie, because Ed Harris was a student at CalArts. Not that I knew him, of course, he preceded me by some years - though he did come and talk to our class, and what he had to say was a definite influence in my decision to start my own theatre company. (How un-Canadian of me, dropping names. But I thought you might appreciate that footnote to the history of PT.)

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Ron wrote:

: You couldn't follow his example, but you could follow his logic: it holds

: whether he's been to Narnia or not.

Ah, but I want to follow his EXPERIENCE of following his logic. smile.gif

I wonder if this is the right place to mention that my first major spiritual crisis occurred when I went to Bible school and discovered, in the pages of Christian History magazine, that C.S. Lewis had come to doubt many of his beliefs near the end of his life (that whole Shadowlands thing). I'm sure there was other stuff going on in my life at the time too, but Lewis had always been held up to me as a paragon of logic, as someone to follow, as someone who seemed to have Figured Things Out, and the discovery that even HE wasn't satisfied by his arguments disturbed me.

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...my first major spiritual crisis occurred when I went to Bible school and discovered, in the pages of Christian History magazine, that C.S. Lewis had come to doubt many of his beliefs near the end of his life...the discovery that even HE wasn't satisfied by his arguments disturbed me.

Then you found out that he smoked and drank, and it was ALL over!

By the way, Peter (since we seem to have pretty much commandeered this thread for our own private chat), did you hear that J.I. Packer is giving a lecture at Regent College this Wednesday at 7:30 on "C.S. LEWIS: THE MAN FROM NARNIA"? Sponsored by Pacific Theatre, in conjunction with our upcoming WARDROBE show. Should be a rare treat!

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Not much to add to the Narnia debate, except that I think they'll probably merge PC & VDT, and miss either H&B or MN. I have a box set of the books t ome & the writing in H&B is tiny compared to that of VDT & PC.

Alternatively, am I right in thinking the writing order was:

1. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

2. Prince Caspian

3. The Voyage of the Dawn Treader

4. The Silver Chair

5. The Horse and his Boy

6. The Magician's Nephew

7. The Last Battle

The actors / characters have a continuity in 1-4 & 7 so I think if they were just filming 5, and each was a whole book they do those. 5 & 6 really only grew out of the success of the original ones. In some ways then it makes sense to do as the publishers did, see how the original ones go and if enthusism isn't running out by film 5, you can always make books 5 & 6 without having aged children issues.

...so it'll be interesting to see.

As for Pollock great film, one of Mel's favourites, and a great performance (as ever ) from Ed Harris. I saw the film shortly before I saw one of Pollock's drip paintings in the Tate Modern. I've been meaning to write my visit up for the other arts forum ever since I went (September) but have never quite got round to it.

Matt

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MattPage wrote:

Alternatively, am I right in thinking the writing order was:

1. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

2. Prince Caspian

3. The Voyage of the Dawn Treader

4. The Silver Chair

5. The Horse and his Boy

6. The Magician's Nephew

7. The Last Battle

You got it, Page-boy.

Personally, having seen and reviewed the BBC's attempt to merge PC and VDT, I would almost rather see them drop PC entirely. Yes, you'd have the initial awkwardness of Lucy and Edmund not knowing Caspian and Reepicheep, but that would be quickly over. And while PC is one of the slighter Narnia stories (and far slighter in its BBC incarnation, without the spiritual lessons of the journey to Aslan's Howe or the mythological riot of the final chapters), VDT deserves a whole movie to itself.

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Ron wrote:

: Then you found out that he smoked and drank, and it was ALL over!

Funny you should mention that. I remember my father, an ex-smoker and avowed C.S. Lewis fan, pointing out to me, when I was but a wee lad, that the good dwarves in Lewis's books tended to smoke while the not-so-good ones didn't. So that was never really an issue for me.

: By the way, Peter . . . did you hear that J.I. Packer is giving a lecture at

: Regent College this Wednesday at 7:30 on "C.S. LEWIS: THE MAN FROM

: NARNIA"? Sponsored by Pacific Theatre, in conjunction with our

: upcoming WARDROBE show. Should be a rare treat!

Yes, Ron, I do read 'Soul Food'. smile.gif

MattPage wrote:

: 5 & 6 really only grew out of the success of the original ones. In some

: ways then it makes sense to do as the publishers did, see how the

: original ones go and if enthusism isn't running out by film 5, you can

: always make books 5 & 6 without having aged children issues.

I dunno, this sounds kind of like making The Hobbit after waiting to see how its follow-up, The Lord of the Rings, has done. I'm not sure audiences would be in the mood for a flashback like that. Then again, they did remake Red Dragon with Anthony Hopkins.

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Peter T Chattaway wrote:

I dunno, this sounds kind of like making The Hobbit after waiting to see how its follow-up, The Lord of the Rings, has done. I'm not sure audiences would be in the mood for a flashback like that.

Are you kidding? Look at the audience for the Star Wars prequels which, bash them how one may, have certainly made a pile of money. Besides, The Hobbit already has a classic story and a built-in fan base.

But I agree with the consensus here: Make Narnia in literary order, not chronological order. Having read through the series with my kids twice in the last three years, I have no doubt that that's the way that makes the most sense.

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Anyone thought about who you'd cast in the Narnia movies?

How about the voice of Aslan? Some friends have suggested Sir Ian or James Earl Jones, but I think that would be too distracting (I'd be waiting to hear Aslan say, "Peter... I am your father!" or "Do not take me for a conjurer of cheap tricks, Mr. Beaver!"). I think a less familiar actor would be best for the role of Aslan, and, in fact, all the roles, really...

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The voice of Aslan in the BBC Narnia stories is, alas, one of the main weaknesses... The actor lacks the authority -- and the humor -- for the role.

The voice must be deep, of course, but also growly, both implacable and uncompromising but also boundlessly affectionate and compassionate, solemn and merry, having great gravitas but in no way stiffly Shakespearean or woodenly stagey.

When I read aloud to my kids, I do a variety of voices, and no voice is more challenging to do than Aslan. I can only do it lying down, and I have to speak from way, way in the back of my throat, but it's necessary to put a lot of breath into it so that it doesn't come off as just gargly.

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The only Narnia book i ever read straight thru was "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe," and it was so long ago i can barely even remember it... my BIG QUESTION is, what is a good age to start reading these books to your kid(s)?

I didn't mean my age, btw, but i think you knew what i meant...

-s.

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Depends on the kid. My David sat riveted through the stories at the age of four (although he was just devastated when Aslan died, and had no heart to go on until I told him what was coming, at which point he began laughing hysterically). OTOH, the first time I tried to read the books to Sarah (she was probably six), at the first mention of the White Witch and what she might do to Faun Tumnus, Sarah absolutely refused to read any further, and it wasn't until she was at least seven that she got over it and was able to complete the series -- though when she was she devoured them.

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Guest Russell Lucas

Stef, if I recall correctly, your daughter is in that 12-18 month range, right? That's tricky. I think there's good reason to expose kids to spoken text that is more advanced than the typical books you'd read to a child of that age (provided the content isn't unsuitable) in order to allow them to hear exemplary rhetoric. Your daughter might be old enough, though, that she'd want to follow the story, and there's a level of detail and emotional depth in the books that is pretty heady for a kid of that age.

I started The Lion... with Leah when she was about three and a half and had just sat through her first lengthy chapter book (I think it was Charlotte's Web). She enjoyed it and was quite attentive. It was really touching-- while we're reading Aslan's death and resurrection, I'm fairly blubbering (as I always do when I read that passage, even to myself), and when Aslan shows himself again to the girls Leah said, "That's just like Jesus."

Of, course, when we read Dawn Treader a few months later, I eventually had to stop reading all references to the "poop deck" to get through the book, so not all is sweetness and light.

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Russell Lucas wrote:

I think there's good reason to expose kids to spoken text that is more advanced than the typical books you'd read to a child of that age (provided the content isn't unsuitable) in order to allow them to hear exemplary rhetoric.

I agree. This is especially easy to do, of course, when there are older siblings; David wasn't yet three when I read through the Little House books to Sarah, and I don't think he would have sat through them if I'd tried to read them to him, but because I was reading them to Sarah he sat and listened -- and demonstrated good comprehension. Currently I'm reading The Wonderful Wizard of Oz to David (who's five), and Jamie, who's not yet three, sometimes listens in and follows the story a bit.

I'm impressed, Russell, that you read your daughter Charlotte's Web when she was only three and a half. Sarah's first encounter with "chapter books" was, I think, The Trumpet of the Swan, which I read to her a chapter a day at bedtime when she was four and a half -- but toward the end I discovered that she was reading each chapter earlier in the day so that she would know what was coming. (When we got to the chapter where Louis's father gets shot, she announced, "We don't have to read this chapter." But I assured her it would be okay, and she consented.)

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Genesis was ten months yesterday. We're still doing "Lift a Flap" books and "Good-Night Moon." She's just getting to the place where she knows that when we're looking for Jonah, he's always under the flap, and she tried to open it up and find him. SUPER CUTE. Oh and the best part of that little book is when the whale spits Johah -- (lift the flap) -- ONTO THE BEACH! THERE's JONAH! He's in a pile of puke!! (says daddy).

Yeah, i was just asking for further on down the road.

-s.

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FWIW, my earliest memory of my father reading Narnia books to me goes back to when I was six and my sister was five and we were living in Poland. But then, since I don't seem to remember anything before I was five, a lot of earliest memories go back to then, for me.

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Guest Russell Lucas

Steven, I'm impressed that your daughter read Trumpet at such a precocious age. That's remarkable.

I enjoyed reading some Herbert poems to our infant a month or so ago. Although this reading predated her ability to significantly vary facial expressions, I feel certain that she was enriched and enchanted by the experience.

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Guest Russell Lucas

When I read aloud to my kids, I do a variety of voices, and no voice is more challenging to do than Aslan. I can only do it lying down, and I have to speak from way, way in the back of my throat, but it's necessary to put a lot of breath into it so that it doesn't come off as just gargly.

BTW, I love this. I love imagining what it looks and sounds like.

My best/only good voice work while reading to the kids is on those rare occasions when they implore me to read one of the two or three execrable Barbie tie-in books they've been bought, e.g., Barbie is a rollerblading coach and must teach her students (who are also dolls) good sportsmanship. I refuse to read those books unless I am allowed to read Barbie's parts in the voice of a sixty-five year old chain-smoker. "Skipper, you know we have the most fun when everyone can play!" Hilarity ensues.

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