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Chashab

Can knowledge be created?

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Watching the NU vs Mizzou game the U of Missouri ad claims that their researchers "create knowledge."

Can knowledge be created?

Edit: grammar

Edited by Chashab

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This is, of course, where the openness of God theology gives other answers. If God is continuing to experience true relationship then He will gain more knowledge as He interacts with us just as we gain more knowledge as we interact with Him. It is this openness to us which makes this expansion of love and relationship possible.

I'm not sure where I personally stand with this new theology but it does make it harder to keep traditional categories with no caveat.

Denny


Since 1995 we have authored a commentary on film, cinema in focus. Though we enjoy cinema as an art form, our interests lie not so much in reviewing a film as in beginning a conversation about the social and spiritual values presented. We, therefore, often rate a film higher or lower due to its message rather than its quality of acting or film-making.

Cinema In Focus Website

Free Methodist Church of Santa Barbara Website

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This is, of course, where the openness of God theology gives other answers. If God is continuing to experience true relationship then He will gain more knowledge as He interacts with us just as we gain more knowledge as we interact with Him. It is this openness to us which makes this expansion of love and relationship possible.

I'm not sure where I personally stand with this new theology but it does make it harder to keep traditional categories with no caveat.

Wow, haven't heard of such a thing, but I guess I must say I'm not surprised in the least such an idea exists. I'm pretty much in agreement with Alan here, just thought the question could prompt some fun discussion.

This "openness of God theology" kind of puts a kink in ominscience, wouldn't it?

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This "openness of God theology" kind of puts a kink in ominscience, wouldn't it?

Chashab - you put your finger on one of the most interesting aspects of the openness thinking. Here is what the Wikipedia article says about that:

The most controversial aspect of open theism is the claim of its proponents that the omniscience of God does not include certain foreknowledge of the individual free choices that have not yet been made. Open theists argue the existence of such knowledge is not consistent with the nature of the future that they believe is implied by free will and that such knowledge is not consistent with the belief that our prayers can make a difference to God with regard to his plans.

That God chooses to limit his knowledge so He can have a reciprocal relationship with us is a fascinating idea that has both advantages and disadvantages, personally and theologically. The advantage is a dynamic interaction in which we change God as He changes us, the disadvantage is that we have a dynamic interaction in which we can change God. Just that thought alone causes most of us to step back and ask if that is a good idea.

Denny


Since 1995 we have authored a commentary on film, cinema in focus. Though we enjoy cinema as an art form, our interests lie not so much in reviewing a film as in beginning a conversation about the social and spiritual values presented. We, therefore, often rate a film higher or lower due to its message rather than its quality of acting or film-making.

Cinema In Focus Website

Free Methodist Church of Santa Barbara Website

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FWIW, I think open theism is flawed to the core, to the extent that it confines God to the space-time continuum which he created (or should I say, creates); however, I do think there is something fascinating and mysterious about the fact that God elected to become human, and thus to experience space and time the way that we do; the gospels even speak both directly and indirectly of Jesus growing in wisdom, etc., which suggests that God the Son has experienced change of SOME sort, even if it is only in his human nature.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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FWIW, I think open theism is flawed to the core, to the extent that it confines God to the space-time continuum which he created (or should I say, creates); however, I do think there is something fascinating and mysterious about the fact that God elected to become human, and thus to experience space and time the way that we do; the gospels even speak both directly and indirectly of Jesus growing in wisdom, etc., which suggests that God the Son has experienced change of SOME sort, even if it is only in his human nature.

And continues to experience change in the 2nd person of the Trinity. Many resurrection traditions narrate the presence of Jesus in everyday activities (walking on the road to Emmaus, making breakfast on the shore) that have a profound affinity with the sorts of things he did before his death. My impression of John 21 is that the author has gone out of their way to pose the post-res. Jesus as a figure that will be involved in the lives and ministries of the disciples much like he was before-hand. Only now it will be...different. This pops up again in the rhetoric of Hebrews, where he is pictured as a present tense help to humans because of his past and continuing experience with humanity.

The problem with open theism is that its monistic tendencies don't allow us the emphasize the trinitarian nuances that are so clear in places like the Gospel of John or the book of Acts.

There are alternatives to hard and soft determinism that do allow for God's knowledge to "increase." Molinism in speaks of "counter-factuals," which are uninstantiated occurances of human free will. In such cases God doesn't "know" what is going to happen until it does. But it just so happens that God has chosen to instantiated the current world rather than an infinite number of parallel ones, thereby foreknowing everything. This "outside of time" God in Molinism doesn't exactly know everything, and thus knowledge can be created.

But it runs into some of the same problems of the process theology it is attempting to avoid. If we thought of "knowledge" outside the rationalist box, such as a perception of his glory for example. Then yes, isn't that sort of knowledge "created"?


"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

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Hot Dog! I see a thread slowly trending toward openness debate. As the Spiritual Milk of Magnesia at my church, this and Universalism are my two most favorite doctrines to be the Socratean gadfly with to my fellow congregants. Yeah, they hate me. :D


"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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