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Nick Alexander

Oscars 2004: Pre- AND Post-Oscar Discussion

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Christian wrote:

: Jeffrey Overstreet wrote:

: : Ngila Dickson has two nominations in the same category: Best Costume

: : Design, for both Samurai and ROTK. Has that happened before?

:

: I'm not sure, but I just read that Alison Krauss sings two of the "Best

: Song" nominees this year.

Sing, schming -- she didn't write either of them, so it's not like the Oscar would go to her anyway. But since you mention it, yeah, it often happens that people are nominated multiple times in the music categories -- weren't Ashman & Menken nominated for THREE of their songs in Beauty and the Beast? I'm sure it happens in other categories too.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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Sing, schming -- she didn't write either of them, so it's not like the Oscar would go to her anyway.  But since you mention it, yeah, it often happens that people are nominated multiple times in the music categories -- weren't Ashman & Menken nominated for THREE of their songs in Beauty and the Beast?  I'm sure it happens in other categories too.

I know it wasn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, but I thought it was in the ballpark. Anyway, as you say, I was pretty sure certain composers and songwriters had faced off against themselves in years past, but I couldn't cite chapter and verse. Randy Newman, I suspect, has had to compete against his own work. That may have been the case the year he finally won his Oscar, but I don't know where to look it up.

UPDATE: A quick Google search on "nominated against himself" reminds me that Steven Soderbergh was nominated as Best Director for both "Traffic" and "Erin Brokovich" just a couple of years ago. All the more amazing that he won for "Traffic," even though the film lost out in the "Best Picture" category to the inferior "Gladiator."


"What matters are movies, not awards; experiences, not celebrations; the subjective power of individual critical points of view, not the declamatory compromises of consensus." - Richard Brody, "Godard's Surprise Win Is a Victory for Independent Cinema," The New Yorker

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Oh! oh! oh! here's some more fun Tolkien-related Oscar trivia.

As y'all may know, the Lord of the Rings trilogy now has more nominations than any other film series in history, and it is VERY well poised to have more wins than any other film series in history, too. But look at these stats and see if something else stands out:

The Godfather -- 3 wins out of 11 nominations in 9 categories (Al Pacino, James Caan and Robert Duvall were all nominated for best supporting actor, and they all lost to Cabaret's Joel Grey)

The Godfather Part II -- 6 wins out of 11 nominations in 9 categories (Robert De Niro won best supporting actor, thus trumping his co-stars Lee Strasberg and Michael V. Gazzo)

The Godfather Part III -- 0 wins out of 7 nominations

Star Wars -- 6 wins out of 10 nominations + special award

The Empires Strikes Back -- 1 win out of 3 nominations + special award

Return of the Jedi -- 0 wins out of 4 nominations + special award

The Phantom Menace -- 0 wins out of 3 nominations

Attack of the Clones -- 0 wins out of 1 nomination

The Fellowship of the Ring -- 4 wins out of 13 nominations

The Two Towers -- 2 wins out of 6 nominations

The Return of the King -- who knows how many wins out of 11 nominations

So. The Lord of the Rings has 30 nominations and 6 wins to date, and could therefore easily beat The Godfather's 29 nominations and 9 wins, to say nothing of Star Wars' 21 nominations and 7 wins. But do you notice something else? Never before has the third (or fourth or fifth) film in a trilogy series actually WON an Oscar. Cool, huh?


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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AlanW wrote:

: Has anyone actually seen all of the above? With or without mailers?

Yes, without. I believe I have seen all the Oscar nominees except for the short films and a few of the documentary and foreign-language entries. FWIW, City of God is slated for a February 17 DVD release, though who knows, its surprise nominations may change that.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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City of God seems to be making quite a comeback here in the Chicagoland theaters. It's in nine houses, both in urban and suburban areas. Looks like it's getting another push, it might be good to keep an eye out for it in other towns in limited release.

-s.


In an interstellar burst, I am back to save the Universe.

Filmsweep by Persona. 2013 Film Journal. IlPersona.

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Wow, so The Return of the King ties with Titanic (1997) and Ben-Hur (1959) for most Oscars ever!

: So ... has it ever happened before that TWO films within a franchise were

: not only nominated but WON the Oscar for best original score?

Well, if it's never happened before -- and I don't think it has -- then it's certainly happened NOW! Go, Howard, go! And hey, between Howard Shore's best-score Oscar and Denys Arcand's Oscar for The Barbarian Invasions, this was a pretty good night for Canada, too!

: So. The Lord of the Rings has 30 nominations and 6 wins to date, and

: could therefore easily beat The Godfather's 29 nominations and 9 wins,

: to say nothing of Star Wars' 21 nominations and 7 wins.

And did it ever. 30 nominations and SEVENTEEN wins. Yowzah!

BTW, is it really true that Sofia Coppola's Oscar for writing Lost in Translation makes the Coppola family the first three-generation Oscar-winning family? I guess it does, if each person you're considering has to be a parent and/or child of the other people you're considering, but if we look just a tiny bit further on the family tree, there is Nicolas Cage, too, no?

Interesting, also, how in both the Huston and Coppola families, the winners in the first two generations were men and the winners in the third generations were women.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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BTW, is it really true that Sofia Coppola's Oscar for writing Lost in Translation makes the Coppola family the first three-generation Oscar-winning family?  I guess it does, if each person you're considering has to be a parent and/or child of the other people you're considering, but if we look just a tiny bit further on the family tree, there is Nicolas Cage, too, no?

Interesting, also, how in both the Huston and Coppola families, the winners in the first two generations were men and the winners in the third generations were women.

I believe they said during the telecast that the Coppola's were the second three-generation Oscar-winning family.

And thankfully, ROTK did win Best Picture. biggrin.gif

(I would have rather seen "A Kiss At the End of the Rainbow" win Best Song, though. I've never felt that Annie Lennox was a good fit for "Into The West".)

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Clint M wrote:

: I believe they said during the telecast that the Coppola's were the

: second three-generation Oscar-winning family.

Whoops, right, I meant "first SINCE THE HUSTON FAMILY" -- as was implicit in my following comment about the women in the third generations, etc.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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Clint M wrote:

: I believe they said during the telecast that the Coppola's were the

: second three-generation Oscar-winning family.

Whoops, right, I meant \"first SINCE THE HUSTON FAMILY\" -- as was implicit in my following comment about the women in the third generations, etc.

No worries. smile.gif

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HIGHLIGHTS:

Crystal was okay... his opening video sequence was good, featuring a bring-down-the-house stroke of brilliance with Michael Moore.

But who would have thought that, in a show with performances by T-Bone Burnett, Elvis Costello, Annie Lennox, Sting, and Allison Krauss, the musical highlights would be delivered by Eugene Levy, Catherine O'Hara, Jack Black, and Will Ferrell??!!

Richard Taylor's tribute to his wife.

"I'd hate to see his tax audit."

Robin Williams' wardrobe malfunction.

Susan Sarandon just DARING her own wardrobe to malfunction.

Adrian Brody knocks 'em dead with the best in-joke of the night.

The montage for Bob Hope (strangely and awkwardly cut short with an abrupt fraction-of-a-second glimpse of Hope standing to accept the ovation).

"The Passion... opened on Ash Wednesday and had a good Friday..."

DUMB POINTS: Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller stealing the Three Amigos' comedy bit from another Oscar show by showing up with only one of them in costume... and following that bit almost verbatim.

And whoever wrote the cue cards for Uma Thurman and Jude Law... jeez, that was bad.

Billy Crystal repeated an Oscar joke from a few years ago in his introduction of the Academy chairman (or whatever he is.)

STRANGEST MOMENT: A sympathy ovation for Bill Murray? Whoah!!


P.S.  I COULD BE WRONG.

 

Takin' 'er easy for all you sinners at lookingcloser.org. Also abiding at Facebook, Twitter, and Google+.

 

"Forget it, Jake. It's Funkytown."    

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Jeffrey Overstreet wrote:

: Crystal was okay... his opening video sequence was good, featuring a

: bring-down-the-house stroke of brilliance with Michael Moore.

I missed this -- I walked in just after Crystal finished singing his song about The Lord of the Rings, but before he sang the songs for the other four films.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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Caught most of the end of the Oscars this year.

LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING with 11 wins out of 11 nominations. FINALLY THE RECOGNITION IT DESERVES. This really made my night, with even my cautiously optimistic prediction of 7 Oscars for LOTR beaten.

Oh, and had the most right predictions? That's awesome. I had an article in the university paper on Thurs. where I predicted the 10 major categories (Picture, Director, Actor, Actress, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress, Writing [Original], Writing [Adapted], Foreign Film, and Animated Feature) and I was correct in 9 out of 10! (I really thought they would throw American Splendor a bone with Writing [Original] for the disgusting snub of Paul Giamatti, but I'm not going to complain about my favorite film's sweep).

STRANGEST MOMENT: A sympathy ovation for Bill Murray? Whoah!!

My second favorite moment of the evening, after having my favorite director presenting the Best Picture Oscar to my favorite film of the year. I have a feeling that the Academy was fairly split on Murray and Penn. I feel bad for Murray, but at least he knows people love him and hey, next year he's in Wes Anderson's The Life Aquatic. There's always hope.


"A director must live with the fact that his work will be called to judgment by someone who has never seen a film of Murnau's." - François Truffaut

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Oh, Peter, it was GREAT! Crystal appears as Legolas in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. As he's climbing the Mumakil, Michael Moore and a camera crew stagger across the battlefield. Moore is shouting, "This is a FICTIONAL WAR!!" And then the Mumakil crushes him with one mighty foot. What a sporting move on Moore's part.


P.S.  I COULD BE WRONG.

 

Takin' 'er easy for all you sinners at lookingcloser.org. Also abiding at Facebook, Twitter, and Google+.

 

"Forget it, Jake. It's Funkytown."    

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: But who would have thought that, in a show with performances by T-

: Bone Burnett, Elvis Costello, Annie Lennox, Sting, and Allison Krauss,

: the musical highlights would be delivered by Eugene Levy, Catherine

: O'Hara...

That would be me. In fact, the primary reason I didn't ditch the Oscars for a third big-screen viewing of The Son (a one-off university screening last night) was the opportunity to watch a live version of one of my three favorite scenes from last year. And it was worth it, if only for the way Mickey shook her head and (as I recall) mouthed "no" before The Kiss.

Also, Errol Morris, you are obnoxious. Quit being obnoxious or else I will start cheering against you winning more Oscars.

Dale


Metalfoot on Emmanuel Shall Come to Thee's Noel: "...this album is...monotony...bland, tripy fare..."

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STRANGEST MOMENT: A sympathy ovation for Bill Murray? Whoah!!

Hmmm... I stopped watching right after they announced Sean Penn's name. Someone care to fill me in on exactly what happened here?

And the definite highlight of the evening for me was the song by Will Ferrell and Jack Black. That was funny. Darn funny.


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So, even though LOTR:ROTK is worthy of each of the Oscars, are there any categories where you think there was an entry more worthy that got overlooked in the land slide? Also, to what extent do you think the awards are for ROTK specifically and for LOTR as a whole?


A foreign movie can't be stupid.

-from the film
Armin

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HIGHLIGHTS:

Crystal was okay... his opening video sequence was good, featuring a bring-down-the-house stroke of brilliance with Michael Moore.

Richard Taylor's tribute to his wife.

Adrian Brody knocks 'em dead with the best in-joke of the night.

STRANGEST MOMENT: A sympathy ovation for Bill Murray? Whoah!!

Agreed. Crystal was just okay, but the whole opening sequence was brilliant. How much did they spend on that, I wonder. Crystal as Gollum was great, and it can't be cheap to redo some of that. Oh, and Nicholson as Gandalf!! But what was up with the drawn-out Pete Rose segment of Crystal's song? Did he think he was hosting the ESPY's?

Andrew Stanton's

\"...and to my wife, Julie. I wrote it to you in a note in eighth grade, now i can say it in front of 1 billion people. I love you.\"

...was so wonderful. It was followed by numerous mentions of long-term marriages/relationships and reminded my wife and I of a recent comment in (I think) the NY Times or Washington Post that the new status symbol is a long marriage.

Brody's move was hilarious -- and Theron was a good sport when she more or less invited the kiss when she got up front to accept the Oscar.

And I loved Spielberg's announcement of the Best Picture Award "A clean sweep!" Which tied in perfectly with one of the best lines of the night from Denise Robert, accepting on behalf of The Barbarian Invasions:

"We're so thankful that "Lord of the Rings" did not qualify in this category."

The music was quite flat, with the exception of "Belleville Rendezvous" from "The Triplets of Belleville," which seemed especially good compared with the other contenders.

One of the great moments came from Will Ferrell and Jack Black -- and Crystal was right in tipping them as the up and coming talent that is good enough to threaten his career.

And congrats Anders on predicting 16 Awards!


"Could we ever know each other in the slightest without the arts?"

« Nous connaîtrions-nous seulement un peu nous-mêmes, sans les arts? »

Quoted on Canada's $20 bill; from Gabrielle Roy's novel La montagne secrète. The English translation, The Hidden Mountain, is by Harry L. Binsse.

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Alan, I'm going to have take exception to your panning of Shore's ROTK score, because I believe that it is just as strong, if not stronger than the TTT and FOTR scores. Really, it's a continuation of the other scores, but adds many new themes. As well, the contributions from artists like Sir James Galway and Renee Fleming, as well as Viggo and Billy Boyd make ROTK score memorable. Seriously, Shore's score takes on an almost Wagner-ian scale (which is appropriate since the Ring Cyle was a large influence on LOTR) with its use of Leitmotif (which is the development of specific themes for specific characters and moments).

Also, take out the CD and listen to it. I find myself listening to my ROTK CD far more than TTT.

However, with song, while I actually really liked "Into the West" and have no problem with it winning, I would have loved to see "Kiss at the End of the Rainbow" win.

Adapted Screenplay is arguable. There will always be really good smaller films like American Splendor that will be overlooked (hey, it made my Top 10), but I think adapting LOTR is a monumental achievement that shouldn't be overlooked either.


"A director must live with the fact that his work will be called to judgment by someone who has never seen a film of Murnau's." - François Truffaut

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Totally agree with you, Anders, on Shore's RotK score. It's brilliant work, IMHO. I was so thrilled that he won.

What an incredible night for RotK! biggrin.gif I certainly felt that the Academy had been holding these awards for a couple of years and was just now sharing the love with Jackson et al. I never expected it to sweep like it did. When I first saw the film, I specifically remember thinking, during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields (Legolas/Mumakil scene, maybe?), that RotK wasn't going to win Best Picture

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Alan wrote:

: Film Score (ROTK score stinks compared to FOTR and TTT, but--as you

: mention--this might be a cumulative award, even though Shore already

: won for FOTR)

I believe Darrel's question was whether there were any nominees that were "more worthy" than the winners. This does not answer that question.

: Best Song (anything else, especially since "Into the West" was a credits

: song whereas all the others were woven into their respective films.)

I distinctly remember hearing one of Cold Mountain's nominees over the closing credits.

Diane wrote:

: And I'm still giggling to myself, thinking about Brody's breath spray.

That was funny, yes, but also a little creepy, dontchathink? I mean, one of the nominees sitting before him was a 13-year-old girl. I began to think maybe Brody had spent a little TOO much time with Roman Polanski.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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That was funny, yes, but also a little creepy, dontchathink?  I mean, one of the nominees sitting before him was a 13-year-old girl.  I began to think maybe Brody had spent a little TOO much time with Roman Polanski.

Ouch! Well, I didn't expect her to win. Hmm. Wonder what Castle-Hughes was thinking during all that? Actually, before he pulled out the spray, I was wondering if the winner would grab him and plant one on him. But wait, didn't Queen Latifah do that to him already? Or am I getting my awards memories all mixed up?

Speaking of Castle-Hughes, one of the most touching moments was during the pre-show, when she first stepped out of the limo and onto the red carpet. The look on her face was priceless. She looked positively stunned, a little frightened, and completely overwhelmed by all the crowd. It was refreshing to see someone who wasn't used to strutting down the red carpet. I almost felt protective of the girl.

I loved the LotR speeches last night, from Peter Jackson's "You've given us an incredibly overwhelming night," to all of the thanks for wives and children. I felt like I was watching friends gather their awards; I've seen the LotR crew on the DVDs so many times. And many of them seemed really down-to-earth, humble, and like the ultimate outsiders.

David Poland's column offers this bit of info about last night's parties:

Jackson, Walsh, Boyens and Company arrived at the New Line party after 1 a.m. Where were they? The One Ring fan party.

Okay, that makes me love them all the more.

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The music was quite flat, with the exception of \"Belleville Rendezvous\" from \"The Triplets of Belleville,\" which seemed especially good compared with the other contenders.

Very true. And the selection for "Best Song" was by far the most disappointing moment for me last night. "Belleville Rendezvous" just plain IS the best song in film from last year. I don't even remember a song in Return of the King. "Belleville Rendezvous" MADE The Triplets of Belleville. What an awful choice. As if Return of the King needed another award. If it was going to get snubbed, i wish it would've gotten snubbed by something a little more memorable.

And congrats Anders on predicting 16 Awards!

Congrats Anders. No hard feelings, you won fair and square. But you're still a LotM-lover in my book. wink.gif

-s.


In an interstellar burst, I am back to save the Universe.

Filmsweep by Persona. 2013 Film Journal. IlPersona.

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Also, take out the CD and listen to it. I find myself listening to my ROTK CD far more than TTT.

I do too. I think ROTK is a beautiful culmination that introduces the "Into the West" theme brilliantly during the closing act of the film, and then slowly builds to its full-on performance in the end credits.


P.S.  I COULD BE WRONG.

 

Takin' 'er easy for all you sinners at lookingcloser.org. Also abiding at Facebook, Twitter, and Google+.

 

"Forget it, Jake. It's Funkytown."    

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"Dr." Ted Baehr is happy.

"This year's Oscar ceremony was the best...since the days of DRIVING MISS DAISY, TRIP TO BOUNTIFUL, and CHARIOTS OF FIRE. For the last ten years, the Academy has been slipping into more and more quirky, perverse, 'independent' films, but this year they were the major, wholesome movies that took the top awards.

"Of course, the Oscars were swept by THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING, which is a wonderful Biblical worldview movie that won 11 out of its 11 nominations. Then, two of the movies close behind it were FINDING NEMO, which was written by a Christian, directed by a Christian, and produced by a Christian, and MASTER AND COMMANDER which is full of Christian allegory and contains wonderful Christian messages.

"So, generally, this was the best Academy Awards that I can think of since 1989. I believe there are several reasons for that. One is that they had a shorter time period this year to do the judging. They used to hold the Academy Awards on the last Sunday in March and that gave another month for edgy, out-of-the-mainstream producers to drum up support for their films. And, number two, they put a freeze on receiving screeners (a decision later overturned by courts), which hindered the smaller, independent movies that have limited releases and would only be seen by the Academy members in the form of screeners. Therefore, this year the wide-release movies with faith and values did better.

"Next year, I want an independent film, Mel Gibson's THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST to do well. I don't think THE PASSION will get Best Picture, though I could be wrong, but I think it may get some top awards for acting, cinematography, and sets."

Oh, yay. So independent movies are bad -- unless they're "our" independent movies.

BTW, can he REALLY be asserting that the same Academy which gave the last ten Best Picture Oscars to Chicago (Miramax), A Beautiful Mind (Universal), Gladiator (DreamWorks), American Beauty (DreamWorks), Shakespeare in Love (Miramax/Universal), Titanic (Fox/Paramount), The English Patient (Miramax), Braveheart (Paramount), Forrest Gump (Paramount) and Schindler's List (Universal) -- all of which, except for Braveheart, The English Patient and Schindler's List, grossed over $100 million -- is going for "more and more quirky, perverse, 'independent' films" and not a steady stream of "major" movies?


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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Yes, the acting awards -- which are a heck of a lot more high-profile than the technical awards that went to The Return of the King and Master & Commander -- went to Mystic River, Monster and Cold Mountain, all of which, I suspect, do not pass muster with Baehr and his crew. Plus, as you note, the original-screenplay award went to Lost in Translation (while The Return of the King did scoop the adapted-screenplay award, which even die-hard fans of the film might be inclined to say it didn't deserve).


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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