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Tyler

Movies Everyone Except You Loves

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Well, no one seemed to be giving hate to the films that needed some, so -

The Social Network

Avatar

The Golden Compass

I Heart Huckabees

Cold Mountain

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

The Last Samurai

Well, you're not alone with Avatar. I could list that over and over and it still wouldn't express my lack of love for that movie.

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Into Great Silence.

Cannot make it through...just...boring. More sleep inducinging than Star Trek Nemesis (which I have fallen asleep during every time I have attempted to watch it-I finally just gave up on it).

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LA Confidential

The Usual Suspects

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

Fight Club

I don't love THE USUAL SUSPECTS either, if it makes you feel any better, and can take or leave BENJAMIN BUTTON.

But you're wrong on the other two.

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One more minus on The Usual Suspects. I worked out the twist about 30 minutes in, and it was incredibly dull from there on in. That's the problem with having read too many Agatha Christie murder mysteries at an early age - Poirot's number one rule: everyone is a suspect & The Murder of Roger Ackroyd is a much more elegant example of the truism of don't trust the narrator, but Christie's version came almost 70 years before.

Seconded on Fight Club too. What's with all the saturated colours? The world is not entirely lit by flourescent tubes. Also, it's just one big pageant to (and no, not a critique of) post-capitalist insecure masculinity; and not half as clever or funny as it thinks. I have a suspicion that I would apply this to The Social Network too, but I'm still thinking through that one.

Baal T'shuvah - interesting about Wall-E. I find the second half a bit of a struggle, once the annoying humans appear, but consider the first half to be the best thing I have seen in cinema in years.

As for films I intensely dislike: anything by Alejandro González Iñárritu. I would like to vomit on his seriously overinflated head.

Edited by gigi

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I'm starting to feel like they are movies I need to put on my "everybody hates this movie but me" list!

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FIGHT CLUB may have some detractors on this board, but in general, it's pretty well liked. THE USUAL SUSPECTS a bit less so, I suppose.

I've always felt like it was the other way around, but that's probably just a perspective thing.

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My experience as a film student and tutor in the UK is that they are both widely well liked. Fight Club has a minority (albeit it vocal and often articulate) faction against, as for The Usual Suspects - I've never met anyone in person that agrees with me on that front.

Oh - and here's another one I can't stand but haven't met anyone who said anything but great things about it: What's Eating Gilbert Grape. Am I alone here?

Edited by gigi

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Oh - and here's another one I can't stand but haven't met anyone who said anything but great things about it: What's Eating Gilbert Grape. Am I alone here?

Yes. ;) That is one of my favorite films.

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THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON. As it has no soul and no purpose, I feel comfortable saying I HATE it, wishing it dead. But then I think I am far from being alone in that, so maybe it doesn’t apply?

Could TOP GUN count? Totally Awesome! in the day, and now Totally Awesome! in a nostalgic sort of way, I suppose. I found it loud, dull and sullen then, and I really don’t see it any differently now. It’s like someone screaming the contents of stock report at me and stopping to cry every time one of his takes a hit.

Now, I had the above typed out, and then retreaded this thread to find that neither of my last two selections are original picks. Ah well. So, attempting to be a little original here, I recently and for the first time saw ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA. A huge Spaghetti Leone fan, I am. A huge fan of this, I am not. It'd be going too far to say I outright dislike the film, but I think the differential between where it stands in public opinion and where it stands with me is great and unique enough to cite it here.

Less controversial is probably GOONIES. Yeah, I can say I hate it. It angers me. I’ve got friends who think it’s fun to dig it up every now and then, half enjoying it, half enjoying the punishment of it. I enjoy a good cold stubbed toe more than I enjoy GOONIES. Seriously. I do.

I'm not too concerned about how SCHINDLER'S LIST matches with history event-by-event, I'm more concerned with how it is structured as a whole, how it is designed as a comment on the Holocaust; Spielberg's film does not seem so much as an account of one man's true struggle as it seems an attempt to reckon with the Holocaust entire, which is why the film falters. Simply put, Spielberg's SCHINDLER'S LIST is the Holocaust made palatable for audiences. Kubrick's famous quote, which Gilliam references above, hits it on the head: "Think that’s about the Holocaust? That was about success, wasn’t it? The Holocaust is about six million people who get killed. Schindler’s List is about 600 who don’t."

Do you think there is a legitimate way to tell the story of SCHINDLER’S LIST? Can you try to articulate exactly how the film is more “an attempt to reckon with the Holocaust entire” than it is “an account of one man's true struggle”.

I mean, if one is to tackle this story - the story about a spark of good igniting and then miraculously growing amidst the condition of utter evil – you’ve got to show the bad as well as the spark. It seems the accusation is that if you’re going to dabble in the bad at all, it’s got to be ALL ABOUT the bad.

Edited by Judo Chop

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Less controversial is probably GOONIES. Yeah, I can say I hate it. It angers me. I’ve got friends who think it’s fun to dig it up every now and then, half enjoying it, half enjoying the punishment of it. I enjoy a good cold stubbed toe more than I enjoy GOONIES. Seriously. I do.

I have this entire movie memorized, and I'm not kidding.

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Do you think there is a legitimate way to tell the story of SCHINDLER’S LIST? Can you try to articulate exactly how the film is more “an attempt to reckon with the Holocaust entire” than it is “an account of one man's true struggle”.

I think an easy way to point out what I mean is to compare THE PIANIST to SCHINDLER'S LIST. THE PIANIST is a humble film. It doesn't have the sense of chest-beating self-importance that SCHINDLER'S LIST does. It's one man's story, well-told. The Holocaust happens to be it setting, but it's really focused on one mild pianist who manages to survive a great catastrophe. SCHINDLER'S LIST, on the other hand, is all overblown statement, from Williams' score to the tear-jerking ending. It's not, really, an intimate character study of Oscar Schindler; Schindler's character feels rather thinly drawn, to tell the truth. Instead, SCHINDLER'S LIST seems more interested in Holocaust imagery and sequences than in any of the characters.

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Less controversial is probably GOONIES. Yeah, I can say I hate it. It angers me. I’ve got friends who think it’s fun to dig it up every now and then, half enjoying it, half enjoying the punishment of it. I enjoy a good cold stubbed toe more than I enjoy GOONIES. Seriously. I do.

I have this entire movie memorized, and I'm not kidding.

Hold on, let me get my tack hammer...

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You're probably right.

Anyway, another one of these films: WINGS OF DESIRE. I've somewhat explained myself in that thread, so I won't go at lengths to explain myself here. But yeah, I don't get the love for that film.

Oh, and PULP FICTION, too.

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Oh, and PULP FICTION, too.

surprised-cat.jpg

Edited by Anders

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Oh, and PULP FICTION, too.

!!!

Sorry. I can't get into it. I find it an infuriatingly hollow experience.

I like JACKIE BROWN a lot, though. And INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS.

Edited by Ryan H.

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Oh, and PULP FICTION, too.

!!!

Sorry. I find it... boring.

I like JACKIE BROWN a lot, though. And INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS.

Well, we can at least agree on those other two. I will have to consider a post explaining why PULP FICTION is the best one of these days.

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Do you think there is a legitimate way to tell the story of SCHINDLER’S LIST? Can you try to articulate exactly how the film is more “an attempt to reckon with the Holocaust entire” than it is “an account of one man's true struggle”.

I think an easy way to point out what I mean is to compare THE PIANIST to SCHINDLER'S LIST. THE PIANIST is a humble film. It doesn't have the sense of chest-beating self-importance that SCHINDLER'S LIST does. It's one man's story, well-told. The Holocaust happens to be it setting, but it's really focused on one mild pianist who manages to survive a great catastrophe. SCHINDLER'S LIST, on the other hand, is all overblown statement, from Williams' score to the tear-jerking ending. It's not, really, an intimate character study of Oscar Schindler; Schindler's character feels rather thinly drawn, to tell the truth. Instead, SCHINDLER'S LIST seems more interested in Holocaust imagery and sequences than in any of the characters.

I knew you’d have a concise answer for me.

Making sure I’m getting you straight here, you say that SCHINDLER’S LIST’s primary flaw is that it fails to be “an intimate character study of Oscar Schindler”. ie. That’s what it should be. I also hear you say that it too often thinks like a documentary, which I’m seeing as just the other side of the coin of the first; if it’s not looking at Schindler, it must be looking at the things going on around him. And I am faintly also hearing a criticism that when it does look at the Holocaust, it sometimes does so not gravely enough.

To the first point, I’m not sure that is SCHINDLER’S LIST’s aim. Of course Oscar is a key player, his name is in the title after all. But the LIST makes the title as well and I don’t think the point of the film is to tell Oscar’s story as much as it is to tell the LIST’s story. It’s the story of something amazing happening amidst horror. A touch of grace in the center of hell. I don’t believe it is meant to be about a single person as much as it is about an event (the list) within an event (the Holocaust). In other words, SCHINDLER’S LIST’s story is not THE PIANIST’s story, and I’m not sure why we should see it as a criticism that it leans towards events and away from character. Naturally the “events” we’re speaking of here only have their significance because they are about people, so I’m not suggesting they should be neutered of that connection, but it seems fair to me how Spielberg plays the balances between events and characters the way he does.

In summary: Yes, the film looks at the Holocaust and the mechanisms of Schindler’s List more than it dives into the person Schindler, or the folks on the list themselves (as if we could ever expect a film to make 600 individuals all jump to life). Kubrick is right: it’s about people being saved. But why is that a flaw? Why should it not be that way?

Mind you, I’m part playing devil’s advocate here. Something tells me you are right, but the counter argument is still nagging at me.

Edited by Judo Chop

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To the first point, I’m not sure that is SCHINDLER’S LIST’s aim. Of course Oscar is a key player, his name is in the title after all. But the LIST makes the title as well and I don’t think the point of the film is to tell Oscar’s story as much as it is to tell the LIST’s story. It’s the story of something amazing happening amidst horror. A touch of grace in the center of hell. I don’t believe it is meant to be about a single person as much as it is about an event (the list) within an event (the Holocaust).

Sure. But Spielberg could nevertheless have told this story with less pomposity, with a greater human element. The story of "The List" is still the story of people. But Spielberg struggles to deal with these characters. When I remember SCHINDLER'S LIST, I don't remember the people. The images and moments I remember aren't particularly character-driven. They're the moments where the film touches on the broader, more iconically "Holocaust" moments, like the trains and showers and camps and the piles of burning bodies (and the "red coat" girl), and because those moments receive more power than the quieter, more character-based moments of the story, it doesn't really feel like a story about these people, or just the list, as it does about the Holocaust itself.

Kubrick is right: it’s about people being saved. But why is that a flaw? Why should it not be that way?

It wouldn't matter if SCHINDLER'S LIST had not been hailed as the Great Chronicle of the Holocaust. Which, in part, is hype, and I suspect that's mostly what Kubrick is responding to. But the film itself isn't entirely out of sync with the hype, either. Just look at the opening of the film, with Williams' main theme going on and the table set for Sabbath. It doesn't say, "This film is about a man, or a group of people, or an event where people were saved." Instead, it seems to say, "This film is about the Holocaust." And on that level, it's ineffective. It's also ineffective taken as a story about a man, a group of people, or an event where people were saved.

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