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Christy E

2010 Arts and Faith Top 100 Films List

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In view of that, I'm anticipating that it will be a matter of moments, once we "go public", before somebody goes "Where is Citizen Kane?"

It is a legitimate question.

Well, is it? I have nothing but love for lists that break the Kane hegemony.

Bicycleran made the list. Good luck seeing that one again to write it up, whoever gets the shot.

I will be more than happy to write up The Cyclist. And so should you!

Yeah, those year stats are probably the aspect of this list I'm least excited about, and the place where I suspect we're most likely to get serious criticism.

I'll push harder for animated films next year. And documentaries.

I agree about animation. Tough to see a lack of that here, but given 100 films, I am not at all upset with the spread. Brakhage counts. We can only refine from here.

Five biggest gains (excluding new films to the list):

62 to 16: Mirror, The ("Zerkalo")

I want to film a documentary about how this happened. Will you provide the soundtrack?

I'm sad to see Secrets & Lies, A Taste of Cherry, and Fearless go.

These are interesting losses. No Leigh at all?

Kubrick's complete absence from the list

Oh... ouch.

2001: A Space Odyssey was nominated.

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How come The House Is Black makes the cut? It's only 20 minutes long.

I was surprised by this as well, but it is a worthy addition. This and Killer of Sheep are (IMO) the big surprise additions this year.

These were both surprises to me, nice surprises. The House is Black may be only 20 minutes but it is 20 of the most powerful minutes on film.

I am glad to see we are not so strict as to make the criteria include a limitation of "feature" length films - as defined by a whole other group of voting persons.

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Is Killer of Sheep the only African-American film? And I haven't seen Munyurangabo--that's by Chung, an American, but based in Rwanda. That's the extent of black cinema for the list? Seems that we're missing some--work for 2011, I guess.

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Must register my surprise and beflusteration at the total absence of Whit Stillman, a very Arts & Faith-y director.

In much less egregious news, "Smultronstallet" (#35 on the list) should be "Smultronstället."

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Is Killer of Sheep the only African-American film? And I haven't seen Munyurangabo--that's by Chung, an American, but based in Rwanda. That's the extent of black cinema for the list? Seems that we're missing some--work for 2011, I guess.

Apparently so. I nominated a Spike Lee film, but other than that, I am not sure what African-American cinema would work for the list. At least the list is international in scope, and covers a lot of cultural ground.

The question you raise is interesting though. Will factors like this prioritize our voting in later generations of the list? Jeffrey raised the same question with animation.

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One more before I go to bed. The complete list of films that were on our first Top 100 list and our just-released Top 100 list, but neither of the lists in between:

Days of Heaven (no. 36 in 2010)

Punch-Drunk Love (no. 85 in 2010)

Dale, who takes requests from the audience (and will do PTC's tomorrow)

Dale, a request: How does the A&F best films of the aughts match up to this list?

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Man, Buckeye, you're right. There is an absence of African-American film and/or Black Cinema. I have my theories about that but that is probably a whole other thread.

Thinking about it now I would, and will, push for The Blood of Jesus (1941) by Spencer Williams. I think this should be on the list and may be a consideration for a completely different list of Film and religious studies.

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Must register my surprise and beflusteration at the total absence of Whit Stillman, a very Arts & Faith-y director.

I suspect/fear the glaring lack of Whit Stillman on the list may have something to do with the "haven't seen it" factor. Now that all his films are available on DVD, there's no excuse!

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For PTC:

Below are films that have gone up each year of the ranked rankings. Parenthentical is 2005, 2006 and 2010 rankings in order. Films off the list in 2005 are disqualified, as they didn't really go up from year-to-year from 2004 to 2005.

Andrei Rublev (18 to 10 to 8)

Close-Up (82 to 75 to 34)

Cries and Whispers (84 to 69 to 52)

Three Colors Trilogy (28 to 17 to 15)

Tokyo Story (64 to 57 to 21)

Wings of Desire (30 to 28 to 12)

Honorable mention goes to probably my two favorite lesser-seen films in the Top 100, which also happen to be the only two films disqualified by my third sentence above: The Green Ray (Summer) (off to 85 to 41) and A Moment of Innocence (off to 93 to 62). I am about 90 percent confident I forgot to vote for The Green Ray, as the title Summer came first and I confused it with Rohmer's A Tale of Summer (which I haven't seen), so it probably should have gone up even more.

And the other half: Films that have gone down each year of the ranked rankings. Films not on the 2004 list are automatically disqualified, as they by definition went up from 2004 from 2005.

The Addiction (83 to 98 to off)

The Apostle (11 to 16 to 32)

Breaking the Waves (50 to 59 to 99)

Chariots of Fire (21 to 37 to 69)

Day of Wrath (24 to 29 to 42)

Dead Man Walking (15 to 21 to off)

The Diary of a Country Priest (4 to 5 to 11)

Dogville (55 to 72 to off)

Ikiru (10 to 13 to 14)

Jean de Florette/Manon of the Spring (77 to 94 to off)

Jesus of Montreal (17 to 19 to 88)

A Man for All Seasons (19 to 27 to 31)

The Mission (13 to 15 to off)

The Passion of the Christ (35 to 45 to off)

Peter and Paul (53 to 80 to off)

Ponette (38 to 54 to 56)

Sansho the Bailiff (26 to 95 to off)

Stalker (12 to 22 to 30)

Werckmeister Harmonies (43 to 77 to off)

(Dis)honorable mention goes unfortunately to my beloved Rosetta, which was not on the 2004 list but otherwise went 1 to 33 to 82. Too much competition from the Dardennes' other films, I gather.

Dale

Edited by M. Dale Prins

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Buckeye Jones wrote:

: Is Killer of Sheep the only African-American film? And I haven't seen Munyurangabo--that's by Chung, an American, but based in Rwanda. That's the extent of black cinema for the list? Seems that we're missing some--work for 2011, I guess.

Don't forget Son of Man. So we have at least THREE films that feature a predominantly black cast -- two of which are based in Africa, and one of which is based in the United States. This seems to fit the list's foreign-skewing tendency, I think.

I'm not a big fan of tokenism (and I wonder sometimes why Oscar pundits etc. always focus on the presence or absence of black actors but don't seem to care much either way about the presence or absence of actors of other non-white races), but a thought suddenly occurs to me: Did we forget to nominate Cheick Oumar Sissoko's Genesis? If so, that was definitely a big, big oversight.

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No interest in tokenism on my part. That said, and I don't know the answer to this question, is there a vein of cinema here that we're underrepresenting? I suspect that black cinema (about or made by people of African descent) is less prevelant because of the difficulties of access (to be able to produce) during the first 70 or so years of cinema.

Edited by Buckeye Jones

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And the twelve most consistent films in the past three A&F 100s, as measured by the sum of the differences between each year and the mean of all three years; again, parentheticals are '05 to '06 to '10.

1. The Seventh Seal (14 to 12 to 13)

2. The Passion of Joan of Arc (2 to 6 to 4)

3. Ikiru (10 to 13 to 14)

4t. The Decalogue (3 to 7 to 2)

4t. The Gospel According to Matthew (7 to 4 to 10)

6t. Ordet (6 to 1 to 1)

6t. Babette’s Feast (8 to 8 to 3)

8t. Au Hasard Balthazar (5 to 11 to 6)

8t. The Son (9 to 2 to 5)

10. The Diary of a Country Priest (4 to 5 to 11)

11t. It's A Wonderful Life (52 to 53 to 45)

11t. Wild Strawberries (41 to 32 to 35)

Dale

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No interest in tokenism on my part. That said, and I don't know the answer to this question, is there a vein of cinema here that we're underrepresenting? I suspect that black cinema (about or made by people of African descent) is less prevelant because of the difficulties of access (to be able to produce) during the first 70 or so years of cinema.

I suspect that is a pretty accurate take on African-American cinema and filmmakers. In addition to that, it seems that such cinema (pre 1970) was made specifically for a viewing audience from that community as well.

Are we under-representing or are we simply representing the collective of voters? I say over the next year we throw a few "under represented" cinema thoughts out there and watch a few. Let's see if a few get nominated.

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For MLeary: A ranked list of the 23 films from the aughts that made the new A&F 100, with their ranking from the A&F aughts poll in parentheses:

1. The Son (1)

2. Munyurangabo (no votes)

3. A Serious Man (no votes)

4. Into Great Silence (27t)

5. Still Life (22)

6. L'Enfant (no votes)

7. The Island (no votes)

8. Silent Light (118t)

9. By Brakhage: An Anthology (no votes)

10. Lorna's Silence (no votes)

11. 4 Months, 3 Weeks, and 2 Days (53t)

12. Heartbeat Detector (no votes)

13. Summer Hours (34)

14. Eureka (118t)

15. Syndromes and a Century (71t)

16. Yi Yi (6)

17. Punch-Drunk Love (12)

18. Ushpizin (no votes)

19. Frisbee: The Life and Death of a Hippie Preacher (no votes)

20. Son of Man (no votes)

21. In Praise of Love (44t)

22. The New World (3)

23. The Return (54t)

Someone smarter than me can explain this.

Dale

Edited by M. Dale Prins

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The rules of the Best of the 00s list limited us to a top 10. With the Top 100 list, I could've assigned 5 points to every single film made in the decade. So, for example, Munyurangabo wasn't one of my top 10 films of the 00s but I still think it's a 5-point film.

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Thom wrote:

: Buckeye Jones wrote:

: : That said, and I don't know the answer to this question, is there a vein of cinema here that we're underrepresenting?

Many veins, I would argue. Where are the comedies!? :)

I mean, seriously, we somehow kicked Monty Python's Life of Brian off the list this year. This will not do.

: : I suspect that black cinema (about or made by people of African descent) is less prevelant because of the difficulties of access (to be able to produce) during the first 70 or so years of cinema.

:

: I suspect that is a pretty accurate take on African-American cinema and filmmakers.

Well, the question is largely than simply African-AMERICAN filmmakers. But I suspect something similar may apply to African filmmakers, too. We have plenty of non-white filmmakers on the list, courtesy of the Japanese and the Iranians and the Indians etc. (and even some of the American filmmakers, such as Munyurangabo's Lee Isaac Chung, are non-white). But it may be that the cultures and economies of the African continent did not allow for indigenous filmmaking to the same extent that the cultures and economies of those other territories did.

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I mean, seriously, we somehow kicked Monty Python's Life of Brian off the list this year. This will not do.

Agreed.

And where are the documentaries?

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Man, Buckeye, you're right. There is an absence of African-American film and/or Black Cinema. I have my theories about that but that is probably a whole other thread.

Thinking about it now I would, and will, push for The Blood of Jesus (1941) by Spencer Williams. I think this should be on the list and may be a consideration for a completely different list of Film and religious studies.

It's a little embarrassing -- wasn't Malcolm X nominated? I thought I rated it a "5," FWIW -- but looking at the international slate of filmmakers represented, I don't think our list lacks color. I do wish we had more African-American films ... like, say, CHARLES BURNETT'S MY BROTHER'S WEDDING, just to name one. :)

Edited by Christian

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Wait, wait. So how many lists are there? I have the 2004 list, 2005 list, and what calls itself the 2008/2009 list (which is what I'm comparing to above). But there also seems to be a 2006 list, and that list seems to be identical to the 2008/2009 list. So was there actually a 2008/2009 list, or was 2006 the last list that we had?

Dale

I can answer that. The "2008/2009" list you linked to IS the 2006 list, just misnamed on that page. Sorry about the confusion. There is no final 2008/2009 list.

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44 people voted.

I'm not surprised at this number, but IMHO it needs to grow for this list to be more meaningful. Is there anybody else who feels like this number seems low?

I mean, more people post on A&F than this every day.

And more people would help to stabilize the list, which (save for the top few) is subject to great fluctuations. I know we each have our very very favorites (I personally am very sad to the The Mission and Schindler's List go, not to mention The Miracle Maker), but 100 movies voted on by 44 people? This seems to me like an imbalance.

Edited by David Smedberg

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David: I agree but am not sure why more people didn't vote. Until we know that answer, it's hard to figure out how to strategize for broader participation.

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Why more people didn't vote...I don't know, of course. However, studies have shown that over time people who join discussion lists tend to become "lurkers." And since member-sign-in is only required in order to post and to read members-only forums, the simplest way to be an A&F lurker is just to read the public forums without signing in. I do it myself most days. What that means is that probably many people who are qualified to nominate and vote for the 100 never saw the announcements because they haven't been signing in.

That's pure speculation, of course.

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David: I agree but am not sure why more people didn't vote. Until we know that answer, it's hard to figure out how to strategize for broader participation.

We are still in recovery from the blowups along the way. We need to stabilize and be a family, if this is to happen. This means I need to put up with all your New World love, and you need to put up with stuff like the following:

I mean, seriously, we somehow kicked Monty Python's Life of Brian off the list this year. This will not do.

Agreed.

And where are the documentaries?

Dogville also got kicked off and it is worth two Monty Pythons and eight comedies. So everything evens out.

In view of that, I'm anticipating that it will be a matter of moments, once we "go public", before somebody goes "Where is Citizen Kane?"

It is a legitimate question.

Well, is it? I have nothing but love for lists that break the Kane hegemony.

That is because you are a tried and true

F.ilm S.nob

Edited by Persona

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This is a fine list, but way too much Bergman on for me. Sorry. I suspect some voters went down the list & automatically voted for films with "Bergman" next to them because "OMG! It's a Bergman film! I haven't seen it since 1999, but I'm sure it was Great! and Spiritual!"? I'd gladly trade at least four Bergmans and maybe a Tarkovsky for some of the missing films.

This reminds me. Was Bergman's Shame nominated? Do we have a list of final nominees posted somewhere (probably)? If not, it needs to be added to the 2011 nominee list straightaway.

It's been reported that Bergman is fading in film-studies classes, and that his influence is diminishing precipitously. I, for one, am grateful to see him so well represented on our list.

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