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CrimsonLine

Harold Camping and the end of the world

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Where ya been, Steve?

In northern New Jersey. No billboards here, and I've seen no other materials. Just the one sign.

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Evidently, some areas of the country are more worthy of being raptured than others.

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Evidently, some areas of the country are more worthy of being raptured than others.

Yes, but which are which? It is not the healthy who need a physician.

Edited by SDG

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Yeah...I kinda doubt New Jersey will witness the rapture. I mean...it's New Jersey. ;)

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SDG could be right ... maybe everybody in northern NJ is already saved.

Try to be outdoors around 6 p.m. on May 21, Steve. Being raptured through a roof could give you a nasty bump on the head.

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Try to be outdoors around 6 p.m. on May 21, Steve.

EST or EDT?

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Interestingly enough, the fellow said that it would be 6 PM in every time zone, and thus would ripple across the world beginning at the date line.

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Interestingly enough, the fellow said that it would be 6 PM in every time zone, and thus would ripple across the world beginning at the date line.

No, I got that. My question was Standard Time vs. Daylight Savings Time.

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Whatever time you are currently observing, I should imagine.

The Navajo Nation observes daylight time while the rest of Arizona does not, so I am interested in seeing whether the earthquake/rapture encompasses the state all at once, or pauses at the border of the reservation. Similarly, Saskatchewan stopped using daylight time and now observes Central Standard Time year round, even though geographically it's in the Mountain Time zone. So folks there should be raptured along with the Albertans, although if it were wintertime they should expect to go with Manitoba. We'll see whether the earthquake/rapture can get this straight or not.

When the rapture hits New Jersey, we'll still have three hours to go out here on the Left Coast. With luck that'll mean we'll have time to repent. God is merciful...

Edited by mrmando

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... Being raptured through a roof could give you a nasty bump on the head.

Funniest line so far on this thread. Allow me to recommend Right Behind if you haven't read it yet, where some Christians actually do get stuck for a bit on some of the more well-constructed rafters of older buildings. Here's a few other excerpts to give you the general idea -

"Yes," Buff said. "It's in the Ivy League."

"I know," the lady said.

"Good, Buff said."

"How tall are you?" the lady said.

"Tall, Buff said."

"Do you always say, 'Buff said,' after all of your dialogue?" the lady said.

"You obviously are unfamiliar with apocalyptic literature," Buff said. "The first is as follows: When writing dialogue, at the end or the middle of every line the author must insert the phrase 'he said,' 'she said,' or someone's name followed by the word 'said.' Of course, real authors who don't write apocalyptic fiction prefer the word 'said' to all the many creative options that an amateur will come up with. But they will lace it through their dialogue, not distracting from what is being said by saying 'said,' but using it so the reader can keep track of the speaker. Only the good apocalyptic writer, or an eighth grader writing for an assignment, will give you the 'said' phrase following every speech" ... Buff said.

or

The newsman was also talking about the differences.

"As you can see in this home video clip, only the child who is actually celebrating his birthday remains. He is the oldest child at the party and is turning twelve. All the eleven year olds were gone in a twinkling, including the one falling out of the tree in the background. Experts have explained this particular age discriminatory phenomenon as something called the 'age of accountability.' Apparently, the eleven year olds were unaware of the consequences to their sin, while now that the birthday boy is twelve he is tried as an adult and gets to stick around for the Tribulation."

"Which brings us to our next story - Who will the Antichrist be? ..."

or

Buff was sitting in a booth at Lefty's Behind. Scott hadn't shown yet. Buff had assumed that Scott had meant immediately when he had said, "Meet me at the pub." Well, he would know better next time. He had already drunk half of his beer and was beginning to feel the buzz. He had asked for popcorn to absorb the alcohol, but, like Scott, it hadn't come yet. Buff wasn't much of a drinker. In reality he would have been, but because of the Evangelical context of this story, he couldn't hold his liquor. Not that this was any flaw of Buff's. It's just that the authors of his story are unfamiliar with the effects of alcohol in its various forms. So, Buff had a buzz ...

or

"You've had too much to drink."

"No. It's just that this story is so contrived to fit its preachy message, and I guess I'm just irritated that I had to come to Mauritius at all ... Plus, I already know the end of the book, and it is such a bunch of nothing, it depresses me to be a part of it!" Buff began sobbing and put his face on the table.

"You're drunk and disgusting," Scott said and he stood up.

"I've only had one beer, not even that," Buff said looking at his glass.

"You're in an Evangelical story, by Evangelicals, for Evangelicals, written in an attempt to make more Evangelicals. One beer does it for them."

"Dammit, you're right. I'm tanked."

"You probably shouldn't say that. People will be offended."

"Why?"

"It just isn't done. Besides it's in your contract. They will probably just edit it out anyway and then fine you for contract violation. Do you want to back up and try again?"

"Humph. May as well."

"Okay, I'll start. You're in an Evangelical story, by Evangelicals, for Evangelicals, written in an attempt to make more Evangelicals. One beer does it for them."

"Dammit, you're right. I'm tanked ..."

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One does wish that Camping's followers knew enough Scripture to cotton on that the guy is a religious quack.

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'Tain't necessarily a lack of Scripture knowledge. It's a lack of awareness that theology doesn't work like a pinball machine.

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I live in Berkeley, which is next door to Family Radio's headquarters in Oakland, and the entire city is plastered with billboard ads proclaiming Judgment Day to be on the 21nd. In some of the immigrant neighborhoods in Oakland, they've got signs in Spanish. They even got a five-story ad at Oakland Airport. I've never seen anything quite like it. I wouldn't be surprised if Family Radio goes bankrupt on 5/22.

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'Tain't necessarily a lack of Scripture knowledge. It's a lack of awareness that theology doesn't work like a pinball machine.

Fair enough. Busted hermeneutical keys will do that to you.

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'Tain't necessarily a lack of Scripture knowledge. It's a lack of awareness that theology doesn't work like a pinball machine.

Actually I think theology does work like a pinball machine. You flip the flippers and the ball still goes right down the middle. Adventures in Missing The Point.

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I've never seen anything quite like it. I wouldn't be surprised if Family Radio goes bankrupt on 5/22.

Alas, what will probably be the result on the 22nd, if Jesus doesn't return (Maranatha!) is that some people will cling even tighter to Camping's base, while a whole lot of others give up trust in the Bible completely, as if it was the Bible that failed them, and not Camping. I really, really hate the impact that date-setters have on the Church!

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I think old wave refers mostly to the financial impact of Family Radio's tremendous advertising buy. The organization has been valued at $100 million at one point, but most of that has to be in assets, I would think. I doubt the size of the buy is proportional to, or even in the same dimension as, the amount of cash on hand. If I wanted to run a nationwide advertising campaign that culminated in me and everyone in my organization leaving the planet, I might well be tempted to spend money I don't really have, since I figure I won't be around when the bill comes due.

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If I wanted to run a nationwide advertising campaign that culminated in me and everyone in my organization leaving the planet, I might well be tempted to spend money I don't really have, since I figure I won't be around when the bill comes due.

Or you might reason that that would be a hell of a way to meet one's Maker. Traditionally it's been supposed that one should prepare for judgment by settling one's accounts, not by racking up debt from unwitting creditors who vainly expect to be repaid at some point in the future.

I guess you could rationalize that it's making prudent use of unrighteous mammon that won't do anyone any good after Judgment Day -- although if the old world carries on for some time after the Rapture it seems to me that unsaved creditors will have a legitimate grievance. It is hard to know how to live in the shadow of the Eschaton.

If you are a Family Radio employee, do you want your pay and your vacation time before May 21? Or do you reason that, with the Eternal Holidays just around the corner, now is the time to forgo earthly leisure and work for the Kingdom? Obviously the management would prefer that employees follow the second line of reasoning.

Edited by SDG

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Camping has also declared that the "age of the church" ended in 1988. Reportedly this means God has no further use for churches, and the only true body of believers is Camping's radio ministry/parachurch organization; furthermore, anyone remaining a member of a church after May 21 will go to hell, or something like that (this on a cursory review of secondary sources). If you want a third strike, that ought to do.

Would I throw the first stone at Camping? No, but I might mail him one with his name on it.

Camping doesn't believe in an eternal hell. He teaches annihilationism -- that the souls of the damned will cease to exist.

He also teaches -- get this -- that Christ's real death for sin took place "before the foundation of the world", and the cross was only a demonstration. :blink:

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Jimmy Akin analyzes.

Note: The "major supernatural event" Jimmy has in mind really is scheduled to take place on Saturday right around 6pm Eastern Daylight Time ... at my home parish ... and Jimmy will be there.

Major Supernatural Event This Saturday!

Yes! It’s true! A major supernatural event will be occurring *this* Saturday, May 21, 2011!

I’m *not* kidding!

Harold Camping—president of the Protestant radio outreach known as Family Radio—has been predicting for some time that the long-awaited Rapture will occur on May 21st of this year.

Of course, he’s made similar predictions before. He famously got his followers worked up back in 1994 about that being the year the world would end (or something) and, well ... y’know.

But this time is different!

There really *is* a major supernatural event occurring this Saturday!

[analysis omitted]

Harold Camping is right, though, that a major supernatural event will be happening this Saturday.

One of my godsons is being confirmed!

Congratulations, James!

So, not only is Jimmy James's godfather, come Saturday at 6pm he will also be his confirmation sponsor. :)

[Camping] also teaches -- get this -- that Christ's real death for sin took place "before the foundation of the world", and the cross was only a demonstration. :blink:

Of course. Revelation 13:8 teaches that Christ is the "lamb slain before the foundation of the world."

Unless it doesn't. Other translations parse it differently.

Edited by SDG

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EDITED:

I've seen some counter-CAMPINGITE Facebook Events like "No end of the world on May 21" and even "post rapture looting" ... and while I almost never RSVP to FB Events and have NEVER created one, I thought I might use that venue to express the thought that a lot of very confused people may need prayer this Saturday evening and beyond.

Facebook Event: Pray for CAMPINGITES (6:00 PM Saturday, May 21)

Yes, "Campingite" isn't a word, but it's what my brain was trying to write when I came up with "Campbellite" instead ... and it will do for this event.

Edited by SDG

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I've seen some counter-Campbellite Facebook Events like "No end of the world on May 21" and even "post rapture looting" ... and while I almost never RSVP to FB Events and have NEVER created one, I thought I might use that venue to express the thought that a lot of very confused people may need prayer this Saturday evening and beyond.

Facebook Event: Pray for Campbellites (6:00 PM Saturday, May 21)

Um, Campbellites? Doesn't that usually refer to the "Churches of Christ" movement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbellite

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Yes, I am now abjectly trying to recover from the Worst. Multitasking. Brain. Failure. EVER. "Campingites" is not a word of course, and my brain went camping on me and came up with the wrong word. I've fixed the event name.

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