Greg P

The Legalization of Marijuana-- The Christian Perspective

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Being careful to avoid the standard pros/cons poltical argument that will likely get this shut down in a hurry,... I've been curious: Since Image and several active A&F members are based in Washington State, how are Churches and Christian colleges/universities handling the legalization of marijuana? Is this now being treated like recreational alcohol consumption among believers there, i.e. acceptable in moderation and with self control? Can SPU members partake off campus?

For years, the primary objection by thoughtful believers was over the herb's illegality and the obligation of Christians to obey the law. Now that this prohibition is over in Colorado and Washington, how is the Church responding and has the stigma of "satan's weed" lifted, even slightly?

Edited by Greg P

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What a great question, especially as regards the Washington-state Image/A&F connection. I'm curious to hear from those folks.

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I'm all in favor of the legalization of Christians in America.

Wait...what?

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Well I live in a small town so I can't speak for Spokane, or Seattle, but there really hasn't been much talk about it at all. Nor about gay marriage. No one's discussing the morality of it, and no one I know is partaking in it. So far here it's still a federal crime even if it's not a crime state-wise. I haven't really heard anything about it at all since it was legalized.

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No one's discussing the morality of it, and no one I know is partaking in it. So far here it's still a federal crime even if it's not a crime state-wise.

Well, Obama stated publicly last week that the gov't has much "bigger fish to fry" in regard to enforcing federal law vs. state law on the issue of pot. A public wink to Washington and Colorado if ever there was one. I mention that only to say, that Christians in those states can partake in moderation without guilt or fear of legal repercussions ... at least for now.

I grew up in an era of Evangelicalism (80's) when marijuana was demonized as a form of sorcery ("pharmakeia"!!!) and to partake was to put one's hope of eternal reward in serious jeopardy, because everyone knows sorcerers will not inherit the kingdom of God (Revleation 21:8). The sentiment was universal and non-negotiable back in those days: you could not be a follower of Christ and smoke pot. End of story.

Over the decades, some of the demonic references to marijuana were toned down, replaced with a stern admonition from Romans 13 about "obeying the laws of the land". It's my guess that proponents of this more moderate position never imagined that marijuana would actually be legal-- morally acceptable even-- in some parts of the U.S., in our lifetime. Perhaps now this is viewed by some as one more sign of the Great Falling away prophesied at the end of the age. To others it's a sign that our dated, draconian, and some would say racist, laws about marijuana were unreasonable and unnecessary to begin with.

The fact is many Christians groups today permit alcohol consumption and apart from warnings about its abuse, moderate use is not considered detrimental to ones spiritual life. In fact, even here at A&F we discuss the glories of good beer, wine, scotch and other alcoholic beverages. Now that it's recreational use is legal in some parts-- and also generally accepted as non-addictive and non-lethal, with several well-researched benefits (particularly for those suffering with cancer and chronic pain issues)-- what about weed?

Edited by Greg P

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For years, the primary objection by thoughtful believers was over the herb's illegality and the obligation of Christians to obey the law.

I don't know how "thoughtful" such an absolute distinction like that would be. The obligation of Christians to obey the law ceases to be absolute after reading the Book of Acts or the Apology of Socrates. Any Christian who claims that no one ought to use marijuana merely because it is prohibited by the government (which, in the context of your question would still be the Federal government) is ignoring, whether intentionally or unconsciously, the thoughts and writings of Thomas Aquinas, George Buchanan, Richard Hooker, Hugo Grotius, Samuel Rutherford, John Locke, Charles de Montesquieu, William Blackstone, Francis Hutcheson, Elisha Williams and Stephen Case, who all put some depth of thought into the Christian's obligation towards the positive laws of man. Not to mention, specifically in the case of marijuana, that any Christian who says it's wrong to use merely because it's against the law must have a very low opinion of G.K. Chesterton's and Hilaire Belloc's strongly voiced views on acceptable behavior under the Prohibition of 1920s America.

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Not to mention, specifically in the case of marijuana, that any Christian who says it's wrong to use merely because it's against the law must have a very low opinion of G.K. Chesterton's and Hilaire Belloc's strongly voiced views on acceptable behavior under the Prohibition of 1920s America.

Maybe not so thoughtful.

As time has passed and science has debunked most of the myths regarding marijuana-- myths that were frequently used in the pulpit to dissuade those inclined towards the herb-- the primary argument I've heard from the Church is that it's simply illegal. Of course this never stopped many Christians. I personally find the federal prohibition of marijuana as absurd and unreasonable as laws regarding sodomy or elephants tied to parking meters.

Let me blunt (pun intended)... if you are a christian and you find alcohol consumption permissible (and many at A&F do) what objection could you possibly have to moderate marijuana usage, if it was legal? If anything, it is a much more natural, reasonable and less physically detrimental recreational substance than alcohol.

A Christian minister friend of mine once told me-- to quote Peter Tosh-- "if they legalize it, I'll advertise it". He doesn't live in Washington or Colorado, so he's not advertising yet.

Edited by Greg P

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Greg P said:

:As time has passed and science has debunked most of the myths regarding marijuana

I'm curious. What about cancer causing properties like cigarettes. Has that been debunked as well. Also I know people who have smoked excessive amounts of pot and its obvious to me that their brains have been affected. Not that they are stupider, or immoral, etc. But when one speaks to them or whatever it takes them a little bit longer to register this and respond.

As well. I have a friend who recently went into counselling to help with mental issues. He said that one of the first things the therapist asked him was whether or not he smoked pot, because this was a leading cause of many brain issures, and this was just a couple of months ago. Although maybe this therapist didn't have the latest knowledge of marijuana.

To be honest. I tried pot a few times in my late teens (over 20 years ago now) and I just came to the conclusion that I didn't want anything to do with it. This wasn't a religious or faith decision at the time. I just didn't like it. I hated what it did to my head. I also hated what I saw it doing to my friends (and still do.) It wasn't giving them peace and relaxation, but rather was making the live in another world that numbed them to their troubles, which is really a false peace.

Of course this has little to do with the use of marijuana for pain relief.

I don't drink much because I'm mildly hypoglucemic and the sugar in alchohol isn't all that good for me, but I do love the taste of a good beer. The thing with pot (especially the stuff thats made nowadays which is much more potent than the seventies) is that I don't think it can be used without having some sort of mind altering affect, even in moderation, whearas alchohol consumption can.

But. Then there is also a very good argument for legalization of marijuana, being that it would be a significant push back against gang and criminal activity as so much of their income comes from selling pot.

So there's also that.

Oh. And I also don't buy into the argument that its from the earth and so must be good for us. Would people who say this go and eat poisonous mushrooms?

Oh and oh. I've never considered marijuana to be "sorcery" or such. It's a plant that questionably isn't good for us, to my mind. Nothing more.

Edited by Attica

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Jeff would be the perfect person to ask about this re: schools - the IMAGE staff is not as plugged-in as he is to the pulse of the school. I'm not quite sure what people are saying or doing.

Although I can't imagine SPU would budge on its zero-tolerance policy at all. It was only in 2010 that they got rid of the requirement that of-age students should not drink alcohol off-campus.

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Greg P said:

:As time has passed and science has debunked most of the myths regarding marijuana

I'm curious. What about cancer causing properties like cigarettes.

Marijauna and toboacco are not the same. I am unaware of any studies that tie Marijauna to cancer.

Has that been debunked as well. Also I know people who have smoked excessive amounts of pot and its obvious to me that their brains have been affected. Not that they are stupider, or immoral, etc. But when one speaks to them or whatever it takes them a little bit longer to register this and respond.

As well. I have a friend who recently went into counselling to help with mental issues. He said that one of the first things the therapist asked him was whether or not he smoked pot, because this was a leading cause of many brain issures, and this was just a couple of months ago. Although maybe this therapist didn't have the latest knowledge of marijuana.

That entire passage is easily as applicable to heavy alcohol use. Heavy use of marijauna can be damaging. Lighter and more moderate use has actually been found to have positive effects.

Marijauna and alcohol are drugs that can be good, or at least benign in moderation-but heavily damaging in overly excessive use.

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Thom Wade said:

:That entire passage is easily as applicable to heavy alcohol use. Heavy use of marijauna can be damaging. Lighter and more moderate use has actually been found to have positive effects.

I'm curious. What positive affects would lighter use of marijuana have? Most of what I've observed in friends and whatnot was fairly heavy use and as said I didn't see much good in it.

Also what about the strong potency of much of marijuana being sold through drug pushers. I suppose when legalized and sold through other avenues the potency could be decreased.

Edited by Attica

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Chiming in from Colorado... Ever since the election I've been joking with my colleagues at the very conservative organization where I work about bringing in some joints to help us relax. Some think it's funny, many don't. :)

I have never tried marijuana and I have no plans to rush out and do so now that it's legal. But as the issue has been debated here at the legislative level, I have been persuaded by the argument that it's effects are similar to those of alcohol and therefore it could be regulated as such. I don't see any particular biblical prohibitions against it. I would think that for believers it could potentially be treated the same way as drinking (ie, drinking in moderation is ok, getting drunk is not, etc.) But I'm also sympathetic to the argument that if it's illegal, it shouldn't be pursued.

Also, although I'm certainly not swayed by this view, lots of reggae musicians appeal to the Bible in their defense of ganja, from Genesis 1:29 to various passages in Isaiah and elsewhere about herbs, etc. "Jah made the herb for man." Rastafarians are also very much against alcohol.

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Marijauna and alcohol are drugs that can be good, or at least benign in moderation-but heavily damaging in overly excessive use.
In 100% agreement. Excessive use of anything-- including water or vitamins-- can have destructive effects on vital organs in the body.

I'm curious. What positive affects would lighter use of marijuana have? Most of what I've observed in friends and whatnot was fairly heavy use and as said I didn't see much good in it.Also what about the strong potency of much of marijuana being sold through drug pushers. I suppose when legalized and sold through other avenues the potency could be decreased.

Lighter use offers similar benefits as a say, a glass of wine or strong bottle of craft beer. It's a recreational activity that can afford an enjoyable sense of relaxation, tranquility and personal well-being. It also can be enjoyed without the sharp decrease in motor skills or some of the more boisterous side effects one typically associates with alcohol consumption. The cannabinoids can alleviate pain, facilitate contemplative thought and creativity as well as several other well-researched and helpful effects on the body. (Contrary to alcohol, which has more problematic side effects on the brain, stomach and liver)

I don't drink much because I'm mildly hypoglucemic and the sugar in alchohol isn't all that good for me, but I do love the taste of a good beer. The thing with pot (especially the stuff thats made nowadays which is much more potent than the seventies) is that I don't think it can be used without having some sort of mind altering affect, even in moderation, whearas alchohol consumption can.
That's a myth (If by mind-altering you mean auditory or visual hallucinations or any such "trip") Moderation, again, is the key element here to enjoying anything that's good. Edited by Greg P

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Ok. Fair enough, I hear what your saying. So then how can it be made that people only have moderation. I've never known of *anybody* that used it that way.

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Greg P wrote:

: Well, Obama stated publicly last week that the gov't has much "bigger fish to fry" in regard to enforcing federal law vs. state law on the issue of pot.

Seriously? Then why do I hear people complaining about the Obama administration's harsh crackdown on medical marijuana providers (and the hypocrisy involved, given Obama's own "choom gang" experiences)?

: Excessive use of anything-- including water or vitamins-- can have destructive effects on vital organs in the body.

I remember being kind of shocked when I first heard about *water* addiction, but sure enough, apparently there was an opera singer whose frequent consumption of water -- to clear his throat or whatever -- became an addiction.

J.A.A. Purves wrote:

: The obligation of Christians to obey the law ceases to be absolute after reading the Book of Acts or the Apology of Socrates.

Hmmm, can we work this into our thread on "piracy"? :)

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So then how can it be made that people only have moderation. I've never known of *anybody* that used it that way.

Well, for Christians if the virtue of self-control is a by-product of the indwelling Spirit, then moderation in any form of recreational activity is not only possible, but expected. My experience is the opposite of yours-- I know quite a few Christians and non-religious people who enjoy cannabis regularly and all of them use it responsibly.

As a sidenote, it's unrealistic and absurd to think with alcohol or cannabis that one can always know exactly when to say "when" and not cross the line into overindulgence. Anyone who drinks, even if it's only beer, has stood up from the pub table at some point and gone "wooooah!" Liquor can be very deceptive. With marijuana this is a more rare occurrence because the effects of THC are typically felt within seconds after smoking. Alcohol can clobber you much more unexpectedly because of the time delay required to enter your blood stream. Overindulge with alcohol and you will pay for it terribly the next day. Overindulge cannabis and you will.... uh... take a nice, long nap.

I'm still curious as to how the churches and Christian groups in Colorado and Washington are handling this. I googled and found this repsonse from Pastor Posture in Seattle. It's not surprising that he delivers a typically shallow, snarky response, angled strictly for yucks and the easy amens. Mind you, this coming from the guy who brews and drinks his own beer, without apology. This apparently is a manly activity. But smoking marijuana legally is somehow

a part of an epidemic of immaturity among young men... young men are the most likely to smoke weed and, by seemingly all measurable variables, are immature, irresponsible, and getting worse.

Here's a very nice response to Driscoll's babble.

Edited by Greg P

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As someone with family and relatives living in Washington, and as a pastor who primarily shepherds teenagers and young adults, I've taken the view that marijuana use is akin to alcohol and tobacco use--in moderation, with a humility and willingness to give up one's freedom to partake in something for the sake of another who may stumble into temptation or sin. Paul talks about choosing to abstain from a variety of freedoms in both his letters to the Corinthians (eating food sacrificed to idols, participating in pagan meals, receiving monetary compensation from the Corinthian church, etc), with the motive to not place any sort of stumbling block between the Gospel and people around him. "If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ." (1 Corinthians 9:12)

As someone who has significant influence in the lives of young people who are still forming their moral and spiritual paradigms, I want to be able to be willing to hold these kinds of freedoms with an open hand, not wanting to cause anyone to unnecessarily fall into sin, either through overindulgence in a substance or self-righteous pride over not partaking in a substance. With young people, the entire concept of moderation is difficult to live by. It's a discipline, one that takes time and practice and maturation. So if there are those around me who are undisciplined in moderation, and I don't have the relational equity or adequate time to have a proper conversation with them, then partaking in a potentially questionable freedom might not be the best move. This list of "freedoms" goes far beyond marijuana use, btw. In full disclosure: I do choose to drink alcohol (and enjoy it!), but have never smoked marijuana, nor do I ever intend to.

Also, the whole "it's illegal so it's inherently sinful" argument has little sway with me. Plenty of past and present unjust laws prove otherwise.

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As a non-Christian, I can't offer a Christian perspective, but I can offer my health-related objections to marijuana use:

- Smoked, it carries the same carcinogenic risks as tobacco

- It is well-established as a gateway drug to the harder stuff (cocaine, heroin, etc).

- Marijuana use predisposes one to the later development of psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia. In fact, it's estimated that were the world free of cannibis use, 8% of cases of schizophrenia onset would never have occurred

- Even modest use makes many people paranoid, which is not a good state to be in. Chronic, more heavy use does often result in amotivational syndrome.

Edited by Andrew

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As a non-Christian, I can't offer a Christian perspective, but I can offer my health-related objections to marijuana use:

- Smoked, it carries the same carcinogen risks of tobacco

- It is well-established as a gateway drug to the harder stuff (cocaine, heroin, etc).

- Marijuana use predisposes one to the later development of psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia. In fact, it's estimated that were the world free of cannibis use, 8% of cases of schizophrenia onset would never have occurred

- Even modest use makes many people paranoid, which is not a good state to be in. Chronic, more heavy use does often result in amotivational syndrome.

See. This is what I had heard. The bit about schizophrenia was the exact reason why the therapist had asked my friend whether or not he had smoked pot. I had a friend (one of the pot smokers I mentioned) who was heavily into pot and then made his way to cocaine and eventually overdosed. Of course this isn't necessarily an argument against mild pot use.

My wife and I were talking about it this evening and she was wondering about the affects on a teenager who was still in development, how could it affect the neuro-pathways and such. She works in an inner-city school, where 3/4 or more of her students take Cannabis regularily.

When I had tried it all those years ago the paranoid was one of the main reasons I hated it. I'm already a fairly introverted personality, it just made me that much *more* introverted and I figured that this was the last thing that I needed.

So where's the cut off point where this stuff might become active?

Greg P said:

:Well, for Christians if the virtue of self-control is a by-product of the indwelling Spirit, then moderation in any form of recreational activity is not only possible, but expected. My experience is the opposite of yours-- I know quite a few Christians and non-religious people who enjoy cannabis regularly and all of them use it responsibly.

I know some that take it fairly responsibly as well. But they also take it to the point where they get more of a buzz than a beer or two would give. Of course I realize that Cannabis would in some sense be like alchohol or even over eating. One can readily indulge in any if they so choose, but many don't

I understand the bit about the help of the Spirit.

:As a sidenote, it's unrealistic and absurd to think with alcohol or cannabis that one can always know exactly when to say "when" and not cross the line into overindulgence. Anyone who drinks, even if it's only beer, has stood up from the pub table at some point and gone "wooooah!" Liquor can be very deceptive. With marijuana this is a more rare occurrence because the effects of THC are typically felt within seconds after smoking. Alcohol can clobber you much more unexpectedly because of the time delay required to enter your blood stream. Overindulge with alcohol and you will pay for it terribly the next day. Overindulge cannabis and you will.... uh... take a nice, long nap.

I've had that happen after one beer. One of the things about a hangover is that it can sometimes (certainly not always) help to regulate the alchohol intake. People don't want to go through it again.

There's a part of me that actually likes the concept of cannabis to help the imagination, relaxation, and ease of sleep, but I'm still cautious.

:Here's a very nice response to Driscoll's babble.

I'll have a read. I'm not a big fan of Driscoll. Practically every stance he takes is basically coming from a place that's idiotic in some way. Pot smoking has nothing to do with ones maturity level.

I grew up on a grain/cattle farm, and there were a surprising amount of farmers in our community that were quietly growing a couple of plants in a bush on their land. These people weren't immature. Some of them were successful and competant farmers and business men, some in their 40's and 50's. But even so, like I said, their intake was above that of one or two beers.

Cannibis might still be illegal in Canada, but someone forgot to tell them that. :)

Edited by Attica

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As a non-Christian, I can't offer a Christian perspective, but I can offer my health-related objections to marijuana use:

- Smoked, it carries the same carcinogen risks of tobacco

- It is well-established as a gateway drug to the harder stuff (cocaine, heroin, etc).

- Marijuana use predisposes one to the later development of psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia. In fact, it's estimated that were the world free of cannibis use, 8% of cases of schizophrenia onset would never have occurred

- Even modest use makes many people paranoid, which is not a good state to be in. Chronic, more heavy use does often result in amotivational syndrome.

1) No study that I'm aware of, has ever found a link between the carcinogens that are found in cannabis smoking and the cancers directly associated with tobacco use. Some studies indicate the cannabinoids may actually inhibit cancer cell growth. The opposite is true of tobacco. Just a cursory googling yields this. It's important to note that there are smoke-free delivery methods and these are becoming increasingly popular, particularly vaporizers which eliminate all or nearly all of the carcinogens in question

2) The "gateway drug" rationale is an old one. Cigarettes are a gateway drug. Alcohol is a gateway drug. If you are an addictive personality, addiction and abuse of harder substances will find you-- you don't need cannabis.

3) The link to schizophrenia is tenuous. At best it's a complicated connection, but a

2008 review of the data found that relapse and failure to take prescribed medication was consistently associated with cannabis use, although, again, controlling for other factors weakened the link.
It's no mystery that people with severe mental illness have a tendency to gravitate towards substance abuse and chemical dependency-- roughly 50%. Marijuana use has increased tremendously over the past 30-40 years and yet the national levels for schizophrenia have remained the same.

4) Paranoia can indeed be a side effect of over-use, just like blinding headaches or vomiting can occur after drinking too much. Modest practice does not produce this. Again, self control is key.

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Yeah...it is a group that is calling for legalization. But that doesn't make the information on the following less true:

http://www.drugpolic...about-marijuana

Good list.

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The issue with pot is that "moderation" is a difficult issue to regulate (in the personal use sense, not the legal sense). Like alcohol, the effects of pot will vary depending on the strain (the "beer" vs. "rotgut whiskey" component of the THC) and the amount smoked/imbibed. Perhaps the "strain" issue is clearer in states where pot is legal, but in the clandestine world of most pot smokers in non-legal states, the strain often comes down to "this is some good shit." There is also the issue of increased tolerance for frequent pot smokers, and that makes "moderation" even more difficult to determine. A beer is a beer is a beer (give or take a couple alcohol percentage points). But for somebody who's never smoked pot, a couple tokes of a high-THC joint will put them on the couch for an hour, whereas a frequent smoker may not feel the effects at all.

I do think that for Christians to truly pursue the "all things in moderation" approach, they would have to smoke an extraordinarily small amount of weed. That's because, by and large, the stuff gets you stoned, and stoned is not moderation. One can "nurse" a beer through a social interaction, but one cannot nurse a joint or a bowl. You either smoke it or you don't. And if you do, chances are you'll be stoned.

I've known enough people who smoke weed to know that many people do it and lead quite normal lives. I'm not going to get freaked out about it. But I also have to say that it's very easy to fool oneself. I know I did. Been there, done that, and got the NA keychains to prove it. I also know people who have lost jobs and marriages over pot because self-medication became a daily, then an hourly thing. Aside from spending exorbitant sums of money on pot and Doritos, these folks have largely missed out on life. If you (that's a hypothetical you, not intended for anyone in particular) are not one of those folks, then more power to you. But for me the legality of the issue is irrelevant. I cannot smoke pot. Ever. I don't like what it does to my soul, and that's a profoundly spiritual issue.

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I do think that for Christians to truly pursue the "all things in moderation" approach, they would have to smoke an extraordinarily small amount of weed. That's because, by and large, the stuff gets you stoned, and stoned is not moderation. One can "nurse" a beer through a social interaction, but one cannot nurse a joint or a bowl. You either smoke it or you don't. And if you do, chances are you'll be stoned.

I appreciate your input Andy, and know that you have struggled with addiction at various times in your sojourn, but I think your assertion that being "stoned" (incapacitated) is practically inevitable and that "regulation" is inordinately difficult, is simply not true. The effects of THC are felt very, very quickly-- as I said earlier, often in seconds-- and it is quite easy to gauge ones moderation, regardless of potency. Personally, no matter what the substance, I like "me" and I like having my faculties at all times, no matter if I'm in a public setting or home alone. I never enjoy feeling "out of control", physically. So moderation for me in this regard is not a struggle. I grew up with some friends for whom one of anything was never enough-- be it one beer, one shot of tequilla, one small bowl etc

The "unknown" variables that are present with THC are there with alcohol as well. Craft beer alcohol levels can vary drastically and the range of effects can vary as well with just one or two beers, depending on how much you've eaten beforehand. Try having a small bottle of St Bernardus abt 12 on an empty stomach, versus a can of Budweiser. The difference can be jarring. There are factors to consider when enjoying any kind of legal, recreational substance, but I don't see why mature adults cannot take these into account and make healthy choices.

Edited by Greg P

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One thing I will say...I erally loved that my pot smioking friends never put pressure on me like my drinking friends. I don't drink much, and have only gotten slightly buzzed twice in my life. My pot smoking frineds will offer, and when I say no shrug and think that is totally cool. My alcohol friendly friends have always been the ones who push for getting totally smashed and wanting me to get really drunk. So, in my experience, people are more likley to exert peer pressure to over indulge alcohol than pot.

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