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BethR

What Would Buffy Do?

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Honestly, you could make the same claim for the X-Files as your did in reference to Buffy and it's Christian Metaphors.  Neither was created by Christians to impart Christian ideals.  Both addressed big questions remarkably well.

Which is precisely the claim I *have* been making!!!

She makes no implication that folks who put down the series as a spiritual work are right. She doesn't even imply it. And that's where your statement makes no sense to me. Her first and second statements don't kead to a conclusion of "But those who've put it down as a spiritual work are absolutley right". In fact, she is suggesting it is very MUCH a spiritual work-asking deeply spiritual questions-Is it an explicitely "Christian show"? No. That's all she said. Her comments don't support your second statement-only your first.

You've completley lost me. Perhaps you've confused my use of the phrase "spiritual work" which means, to me, a work which asks spiritual questions. Not one with a specific spiritual viewpoint, and certainly not one with explicit Christian teaching.

I might have been able to understand the confusion the first time around, but my second post was more than clear on this. And said precisely the same things which you then responded with!

Let's all go have a nice sleep, okay? smile.gif

Phil.

BTW, Very true on The X-Files later seasons but, to be honest, I tend to not use them when I read the series as they are almost entirely awful and contradictory with most of their readings on the characters. Most, if not all, of that series great character work is in the first six seasons. Although I was pleased that the final scene of the series did briefly return to Scully's faith as (essentially) her gift to Mulder over the previous nine years.

Edited by Shantih

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You've completley lost me. Perhaps you've confused my use of the phrase "spiritual work" which means, to me, a work which asks spiritual questions. Not one with a specific spiritual viewpoint, and certainly not one with explicit Christian teaching.

I might have been able to understand the confusion the first time around, but my second post was more than clear on this. And said precisely the same things which you then responded with!

But you said that people who put down the show as a spiritual work are entirely right. *thats* where I am having a problem following you. That's where I am confused. Because if a "spiritual work" is, as you state "a work which asks spiritual questions. Not one with a specific spiritual viewpoint, and certainly not one with explicit Christian teaching" (to which I agree), then how do you conclude that people who put down Buffy as a spiritual work are "entirely right"?

Or by "put it down", do you mean something other than "condemning it"? This may be the problem, as I find the primary use of the phrase "put down" as related to condemnation or low opinions of and insults. By "put it down", are you simply referring to people who place it in the category of "spiritual work"?

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Or by "put it down", do you mean something other than "condemning it"? This may be the problem, as I find the primary use of the phrase "put down" as related to condemnation or low opinions of and insults. By "put it down", are you simply referring to people who place it in the category of "spiritual work"?

Ah, I *see*!!

Yes, "put down" doesn't mean to condemn something. Not in the sense I use it. I use it in a similar sense to the phrase "mark up."

Wonderful!

Phil.

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Any questions for Joss Whedon? I seem to be going to one of his fundraising for Kerry/Edwards parties Sunday afternoon.

Must submit Qs by 10 a.m. today (Saturday). I just got the message this morning.

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Any questions for Joss Whedon?  I seem to be going to one of his fundraising for Kerry/Edwards parties Sunday afternoon.

Must submit Qs by 10 a.m. today (Saturday). I just got the message this morning.

Beth, did you have a chance to ask Joss a question?

I was remembering a song from the fourth-season finale (Restless, maybe?) - the one where the gang is haunted by disturbing dreams. It's a version of the St. Francis Prayer (Lord, make me an instrument of your peace ...). The vocalist sounded like Sarah McLachlan. I tried to find some information about the song at the time but was never able to. Anyone here know who sings it, and where it's available?

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I was remembering a song from the fourth-season finale (Restless, maybe?) - the one where the gang is haunted by disturbing dreams. It's a version of the St. Francis Prayer (Lord, make me an instrument of your peace ...). The vocalist sounded like Sarah McLachlan. I tried to find some information about the song at the time but was never able to. Anyone here know who sings it, and where it's available?

Are you perhaps confusing Restless with the season six finale Grave? It's in the latter that there is indeed a version of the St. Francis Prayer sung by Sarah McLachlan. You can find it on the Radio Sunnydale album. I have a feeling it's also on the special edition release of McLachlan's album Surfacing although it's definetly not on the normal CD release.

Phil.

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Are you perhaps confusing Restless with the season six finale Grave? It's in the latter that there is indeed a version of the St. Francis Prayer sung by Sarah McLachlan. You can find it on the Radio Sunnydale album. I have a feeling it's also on the special edition release of McLachlan's album Surfacing although it's definetly not on the normal CD release.

Phil.

Was it the sixth season finale? Boy, my memory's slipping faster than I'd like to admit. Thanks for the info on the song, Phil. Now, if I can just remember what you told me long enough to find the CD ...

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Are you perhaps confusing Restless with the season six finale Grave? It's in the latter that there is indeed a version of the St. Francis Prayer sung by Sarah McLachlan. You can find it on the Radio Sunnydale album. I have a feeling it's also on the special edition release of McLachlan's album Surfacing although it's definetly not on the normal CD release.

Phil.

Was it the sixth season finale? Boy, my memory's slipping faster than I'd like to admit. Thanks for the info on the song, Phil. Now, if I can just remember what you told me long enough to find the CD ...

Yes, it is in the 6th season finale, and just to make things trickier, there are two versions of Radio Sunnydale. Sarah McL's "Prayer of St. Francis" is only on the American version, while the UK version includes several other songs that the USA edition doesn't have. Weird.

Because of another appointment Saturday AM, I didn't have time to get a question in, but there were plenty, as I expected there would be. Reports in the "comments" for the "High Stakes" items at whedonesque.com (in the Archives, for Oct. 24) include most of what was said. The complete call can be heard for a donation to the Kerry/Edwards campaign--it was a fundraiser--but I'm not advocating that.

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SF Bay Guardian columnist mourns a Joss-less TVscape, here:

http://www.sfbg.com/39/11/x_techsploitation.html

"There are the dubious charms of Lost, but its cookie-cutter plotlines and beefy male stereotypes are barely worth enduring for the show's few moments of brilliant creepiness. And I don't do CSI, so let's not even go there, OK?"

I know exactly how she feels. OK, I like LOST a bit more than she does, and I had no time at all for "Roseanne," but still--

"People need overtly fictional stories in order to escape from the grind of reality. At its best, fiction reminds us not to trap ourselves in the narrow kinds of thinking that make us believe that we must look like beauty contestants to be happy, or that people will always betray each other to survive."

As Willow once said, "the dark can get pretty dark. Sometimes you need a story" (B2.7 "Lie to Me"). Of course, she was talking about people whose fiction romanticized vampires, all the same, she had a point.

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Finally broke open the piggy-bank and bought Gregory Stevenson's Televised Morality: The Case of Buffy the Vampire Slayer Stevenson is prof. of NT & Greek at Rochester College, a Christian college in Michigan. A chapter from this book appeared in Slayage 15 (click on issue #), "The End as Moral Guidepost," and if reading that doesn't convince you that the whole book is worth $36 (durn academic publishers), maybe these quotes from ch. 2 will.

Discussing the "reductionist approach" many Christian critics take to evaluating movies, tv, and pop culture in general, Stevenson writes:

Complexity and ambiguity are deemed inconsistent with presentations of morality. Their focus tends to be on a show's portrayal of morality rather than on its perspective of morality. A show may present a very graphic portrayal of violence, while offering a perspective on violence that is critical of it. The overall moral vision of a show transcends portrayal in favor of perspective. This moral vision is the larger system of morality that is embedded in the narrative and that provides structure and meaning to that narrative world.

And this:

Anthropology is theology. Speaking about humanity is a way of speaking about God, just as the analysis of any created thing gives insight into its creator. We could say that Buffy operated with a related principle in mind, that anthropology is morality. By this I mean that we gain a greater understanding of right and wrong, good and evil, by exploring the reality of the human condition with all its virtue and vice, its potential and failure.

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Editors David Lavery & Rhonda Wilcox announce the new issue of SLAYAGE:

::Slayage 16 is now available. You will find the following:

--Roz Kaveney, "A Sense of the Ending: Sch

Edited by BethR

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John Mark Reynolds (I'm pretty sure not the same john mark who's been dogmatizing on "the experience of film") blogs about Christianity, Buffy, Dracula, Dante, and Plato.

Edited by BethR

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I'm going to my alma mater, St. Andrews Presbyterian College, today to be part of a faculty panel in a class: "Topics in Popular Culture: Buffy the Vampire Slayer."

Pray for me!

Edited by BethR

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Thank you. I think it went well.

I joined two other professors from the college (sociology and psychology) to talk about how we started watching BtVS, what made us realize that it was had more depth than average, and how each of us related it to our academic fields. Each of us showed a favorite scene and talked about it; mine was the final scene of "Innocence"--and I could have picked about fifty others. I was surprised that there were almost 30 students in the class--this is a very small college. Anyway, had a good time and also got to see one of my old English professors.

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Good scene selection Beth.

A few of my favorites:

Season 2

Passion - Giles' grim discovery

Season 5

The Body - When Buffy tells Dawn at school what happened.

(forget which episode) After Buffy finds out her mom is sick and sits on the back porch. Spike is on his way to kill her, sees that she is sad, and sits beside her.

Season 6

Once more with feeling - Walk thru the fire, when the scoobies decide to go help Buffy and we see a wide shot of them marching together.

finale - Xander and Willow and the yellow crayon.

Season 7

From Beneath You - final scene at the church where Spike reveals to Buffy where he went away to.

Him - Behind principle Wood as he is in his office, Buffy is lining up a canon at him and she is chased back and forth by Spike.

Bring on the Night - Buffys rousing speech after having her watu kicked in by an ubervamp.

"I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared. I'm standing on the mouth of hell, and it is gonna swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me. We're not ready? They're not ready. They think we're gonna wait for the end to come, like we always do. I'm done waiting. They want an apocalypse? Oh, we'll give 'em one. Anyone else who wants to run, do it now. 'Cause we just became an army. We just declared war. From now on, we won't just face our worst fears, we will seek them out. We will find them, and cut out their hearts one by one, until The First shows itself for what it really is. And I'll kill it myself. There is only one thing on this earth more powerful than evil, and that's us. Any questions?"

and on and on....

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(forget which episode) After Buffy finds out her mom is sick and sits on the back porch. Spike is on his way to kill her, sees that she is sad, and sits beside her.

That is a good one (as are all you mentioned). It's the final scene of "Fool for Love"

Others I would have chosen (in addition to yours):

Xander facing off with Jack in the high school basement as the bomb ticks down..."I like the quiet" ("The Zeppo")

Willow vs. Parker in "Beer Bad" (Willow: "Just how gullible do you think I am?")

Giles and Buffy debating forgiveness in "I Only Have Eyes for You"

Willow wants to be a rebel in "Doppelgangland"--"I'm eating this banana! Lunchtime be damned!"

or else the scene in which everyone thinks she's dead...

I felt constrained to limit my choices to seasons 1-5, because the class hadn't yet officially viewed any episodes from 6-7, although probably a lot of the students knew the whole series.

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Can anyone help me? What I desperately need--today--is the article on BtVS from Issue 2 (March 2003) of PASTE Magazine. Yeah, I know--what are the chances that someone both subscribes to Paste and has filed back issues from four years ago is small, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. If you happen to have it and are willing and able to photocopy & fax it to me, please e-mail me (not PM) ASAP so I can give you my FAX number.

cross-posting to MUSIC--sorry--

Thanks!

Edited by BethR

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Seems as good a place for this as any. Today on KPCC Patt Morrison interviewed Eric Nuzum, author, The Dead Travel Fast: Stalking Vampires from Nosferatu to Count Chocula. Podcast is available.

One of Nuzum's favorites is the movie Jesus Christ, Vampire Hunter

Edited by Darrel Manson

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What about Angel? Does anyone have any comments on it? I've always sort of lumped the two shows together since they're set in the same 'verse. Angel though was definately the darker of the two shows.

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What about Angel? Does anyone have any comments on it? I've always sort of lumped the two shows together since they're set in the same 'verse. Angel though was definately the darker of the two shows.

Angel has its own thread--add to the comments as you like :)

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Warning: shameless self-promotion ahead.

Buffy Goes Dark, the collection of essays on seasons 6 & 7 of Buffy that I co-edited with Lynne Edwards (Ursinus College) and James South (Marquette University) is now available for pre-order from the publisher, McFarland, and from Amazon.com

Essays on Marti Noxon, Jane Espenson, Andrew, the Willow & Tara controversy, the "darkness" of season six, readings of season seven, the "hero's journey" motif, and more.

We expect the book will ship in the fall.

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Warning: shameless self-promotion ahead.

Buffy Goes Dark, the collection of essays on seasons 6 & 7 of Buffy that I co-edited with Lynne Edwards (Ursinus College) and James South (Marquette University) is now available for pre-order from the publisher, McFarland, and from Amazon.com

Essays on Marti Noxon, Jane Espenson, Andrew, the Willow & Tara controversy, the "darkness" of season six, readings of season seven, the "hero's journey" motif, and more.

We expect the book will ship in the fall.

Congratulations, Beth. That's wonderful news.

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Warning: shameless self-promotion ahead.

Buffy Goes Dark, the collection of essays on seasons 6 & 7 of Buffy that I co-edited with Lynne Edwards (Ursinus College) and James South (Marquette University) is now available for pre-order from the publisher, McFarland, and from Amazon.com

Essays on Marti Noxon, Jane Espenson, Andrew, the Willow & Tara controversy, the "darkness" of season six, readings of season seven, the "hero's journey" motif, and more.

UPDATE: Due to various circumstances, the finally corrected proofs actually made it to the publisher last week, so the book should ship next month. In the end, I was only able to do a small part the proof-reading, and of course, we won't know until we see the book whether the publisher actually MADE the corrections we requested. There are some things I'm still not happy with, but it's too late to fix them now. So if you happen to see the book, try too look for the good stuff. Thanks!

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