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kenmorefield

Top 100 for 2020 -- Organization

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Darren beat me to the punch again (he's been doing that a lot lately, which is not a bad thing).

I will just say what he said in my own language. Steven, your concerns are reasonable and legitimate, which is why we discussed them in the weeks leading up and decided to revisit the grandparenting question if the new nomination process has unintended results. 

I said "leaning" because it's hard for me to see how a film that nobody nominates is so essential it must be given a special dispensation, but...I don't know. And because I honestly doubt that very many (any?) of the films on the 30 or so list that has been proposed to be grandfathered won't be nominated by *someone*. That said, if it is important enough for me (or anyone) to be dead sure it is on the list of nominees, I have the means to ensure that it will be. 

As an example, when we did Ecumenical Jury together, I objected to changing the voting process/rules for Silence, but there was a consensus among the group that people wanted to at least have the opportunity to vote for it and not have it fall through the cracks because of a pedantic adherence to a timeline or process we had chosen. So there is precedent in these circles for making adjustments.

But that's just a long-winded way of saying your concerns are reasonable and have been articulated by others as well, so when I say we'll revisit it if necessary, that's a good-faith proffer that we will. 

P.S. I forgot to add what I got on for! I don't think if two people have the same film on the their Top 25 that a vote will be "wasted" since these are nominations, not votes. I could actually turn that around and say that if I put a film that seems unlikely to get any traction (i.e. if I fill my list with eclectic choices or stuff that I want on the bottom half) then maybe I've "wasted" a nomination. If I'm trying to decide between a choice that might be a reach (say, Fargo), and a second or third Bresson/Dreyer/Kurosawa film, maybe I've used my nomination on a long-shot, but I don't think even that is "wasting" a nomination, because I've given the long-shot a chance.

P.P.S. The above paragraph is a hypothetical. I did not actually put Fargo on my list (though I considered it).

 

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I continue to think that grandparenting specifically and the new nominations process in general will be most likely felt in the instances where there are multiple films by same director under consideration -- but I'm not sure how that change will occur.

For example, if Les Fils, were grandparented, would that make voters more/less likely to nominated a second Dardennes film? (I could see the argument both ways...well, I know there is at least a Dardennes film already nominated, so I don't have to nominate another, vs. well, I don't have to use my vote on that particular film so I can nominate a second one.) 

After making a first draft of my own list, most of my cogitating is on balancing the relative merits of nominating a long shot in a few slots versus nominating a second or third choice from among canonical favorites.

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Just sent my 25 nominees to Darren, and deliberated on the final list even as I was typing up the email, making a last-minute change right before clicking "send". This has been my Super Tuesday. :) 

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9 hours ago, Joel Mayward said:

Just sent my 25 nominees to Darren, and deliberated on the final list even as I was typing up the email, making a last-minute change right before clicking "send". This has been my Super Tuesday. :) 

CNN reports that Rosetta has just dropped out of the race, but unfortunately you cannot reassign your vote until the third ballot....

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3 hours ago, kenmorefield said:

CNN reports that Rosetta has just dropped out of the race, but unfortunately you cannot reassign your vote until the third ballot....

*Climbs into caravan, turns on the gas, eats boiled egg in silent despair.*

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I've mentioned elsewhere that I am doing the slow, tedious, process of moving the lists to the the new directory that is forum integrated. I note that while there is a lot of votility in the back end between 2010 and 2011 (2/3 of the films ranked 67-100 on 2011 list were new), that the only film to go from Top 25 to not appearing at all was A Serious Man (2010--#22; 2011--did not appear).

Conversely, it looks like The Searchers is the highest ranking film on the 2011 list (#18) that did not appear on the 2010 list at all.

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3 hours ago, kenmorefield said:

Conversely, it looks like The Searchers is the highest ranking film on the 2011 list (#18) that did not appear on the 2010 list at all.

Wasn't Make Way For Tomorrow a film in the top *10* of the 2011 list at #6, but didn't appear on the 2010 list? I remember having never heard of the film at all, then being totally surprised by its appearance on the 2011 list, which I think was mainly due to this thread started by Darren in December 2010.

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5 hours ago, Joel Mayward said:

Wasn't Make Way For Tomorrow a film in the top *10* of the 2011 list at #6, but didn't appear on the 2010 list? I remember having never heard of the film at all, then being totally surprised by its appearance on the 2011 list, which I think was mainly due to this thread started by Darren in December 2010.

Yep, Darren and that thread are totally to blame for its sudden appearance.  

BTW, in binge-watching as many contenders as possible during these past few weeks, I've discovered that at least three of the films that made every Top 100 list feature the burning of an accused witch or female heretic (Passion of Joan of Arc, Day of Wrath, and The Seventh Seal).  I'm not sure what to make of that - and I feel like I'm channeling Peter Chattaway in making this statistical observation - but there you have it.


To be an artist is never to avert one's eyes.
- Akira Kurosawa

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularcinephile/

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6 hours ago, Andrew said:

at least three of the films that made every Top 100 list feature the burning of an accused witch or female heretic (Passion of Joan of Arc, Day of Wrath, and The Seventh Seal).

Reading the above quote, a scene came to mind:

 

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I started with 35; I've gotten it down to 27.


"Anyway, in general I love tragic artists, especially classical ones."

"Even the forms for expressing truth can be multiform, and this is indeed necessary for the transmission of the Gospel in its timeless meaning."

- Pope Francis, August 2013 interview with Antonio Spadaro

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I remember having never heard of the film at all, then being totally surprised by its appearance on the 2011 list, which I think was mainly due to this thread started by Darren in December 2010.

This is why I would encourage everyone to start threads to advocate for your quirkier personal choices before voting begins.

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3 hours ago, Darren H said:

I remember having never heard of the film at all, then being totally surprised by its appearance on the 2011 list, which I think was mainly due to this thread started by Darren in December 2010.

This is why I would encourage everyone to start threads to advocate for your quirkier personal choices before voting begins.

In his nominations post, Darren chooses to highlight SDG's quote  that an important criteria is "because they have played some significant role in the personal journeys of the voting members

To the extent voters look at the criteria as perhaps playing a greater part in our nominations than before (which I think would be a good thing), it does create some questions for me about voting. If, say, I have to vote between Frisco Jenny and Moonlight Kingdom, for example (two films that I wouldn't nominate but that I can imagine others will), am I voting for the film that had the most significant impact on me...or for the film that whomever nominates does a better job convincing me had a significant impact on them? Or is the significant, personal impact only really for nominations and then voting goes back to technical excellence, cultural impact, etc. 

I'm not saying there is a right answer, just that it's worth thinking about how one as an individual voter will hand the "quirkier personal choices" of others.

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On 3/7/2020 at 11:31 AM, kenmorefield said:

I'm stuck on 26 films on my list...

 

On 3/7/2020 at 2:46 PM, Evan C said:

I started with 35; I've gotten it down to 27.

I'm not there yet! It was easy to come up with a top 20 or so (and then I admit I removed a handful thinking someone else was sure to nominate them, though I am keeping others I think will surely be nominated, too). I have 21 I'm pretty sure I'll nominate, but I made a list of more than other 40 films that I'd love to include, and I think what ends up getting the list to 25 will depend on how I'm feeling the day I submit it. 

On 3/3/2020 at 9:14 AM, kenmorefield said:

I continue to think that grandparenting specifically and the new nominations process in general will be most likely felt in the instances where there are multiple films by same director under consideration -- but I'm not sure how that change will occur.

For example, if Les Fils, were grandparented, would that make voters more/less likely to nominated a second Dardennes film? (I could see the argument both ways...well, I know there is at least a Dardennes film already nominated, so I don't have to nominate another, vs. well, I don't have to use my vote on that particular film so I can nominate a second one.) 

After making a first draft of my own list, most of my cogitating is on balancing the relative merits of nominating a long shot in a few slots versus nominating a second or third choice from among canonical favorites

I too am struggling to balance this. An honest top 25 films that are spiritually significant for me could include 4 or even 5 Tarkovsky films, but what I submit certainly will not have that many. My list would have multiple films by other directors, too, in most cases the usual French, Nordic, and Japanese suspects. The thing is, I think I have a better sense of of the kinds of films that A&F folks like (or have liked in the past) because they're films I like, too, but not as good a sense of what a long shot would be. There are several films on the 2011 Top 100 that are great films but that I would have surely called long shots! Had their been an initial grandparenting, I know I'd have both more quirky personal picks and more by "canonical" directors.

On 3/6/2020 at 6:53 AM, kenmorefield said:

the only film to go from Top 25 to not appearing at all was A Serious Man (2010--#22; 2011--did not appear).

It's been years since I read through those old threads, but I think it dropped off because the 2011 list had a new requirement that excluded films that were too recent.

On 3/6/2020 at 6:53 AM, kenmorefield said:

Conversely, it looks like The Searchers is the highest ranking film on the 2011 list (#18) that did not appear on the 2010 list at all.

I have no idea if this is correct, but perhaps it just wasn't nominated in 2010? A film that is #26 on someone's nominating list (and doesn't get nominated) could still easily have made the Top 100 if it had broadly positive support.

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I think I've narrowed my list down to 25 that I can live with, in spite of seven very painful cuts, but I'm going to sit with it a little bit longer.


"Anyway, in general I love tragic artists, especially classical ones."

"Even the forms for expressing truth can be multiform, and this is indeed necessary for the transmission of the Gospel in its timeless meaning."

- Pope Francis, August 2013 interview with Antonio Spadaro

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I'm having the opposite problem. I think I've discovered list-writer's block! I'm currently at 16 and every time I add a new one, I immediately delete it and think, "Not profound enough!"

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2 hours ago, Darren H said:

I'm having the opposite problem. I think I've discovered list-writer's block! I'm currently at 16 and every time I add a new one, I immediately delete it and think, "Not profound enough!"

Darren, you still good with collecting ballots? I have this sinking feeling that the next couple weeks are going to be...tough on all of us.

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Having submitted my list fairly early on in the process, my biggest problem is now having to wait anxiously to see what everyone else submits and whether or not the films I left off will be nominated by someone else. For my approach, I tried to mainly choose films which hadn't previously appeared in Top 100 iterations, so my nominations skew towards 21st-century films, and I left off some of more personally-affecting and transcendent films in the likelihood that someone else will nominate them...I hope. :) 

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I submitted my list. Excited to see what other people picked. I was a little surprised by the fact that the 1990s were the most heavily represented decade, but I guess that was when I was in my late 20s and early 30s which is sort of an age where movies have such a personal impact and where one's taste and judgment ar erefining.

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3 hours ago, kenmorefield said:

I submitted my list. Excited to see what other people picked. I was a little surprised by the fact that the 1990s were the most heavily represented decade, but I guess that was when I was in my late 20s and early 30s which is sort of an age where movies have such a personal impact and where one's taste and judgment ar erefining.

I just checked and was surprised to learn that I had only one selection from the 1990s on my list - and it was a last-second addition, almost an afterthought. (Although another 1990s title that I forgot to add just came to mind! Nah - on second thought, I'm not sure I would've added it. But I kind of wish I had; I don't think anyone else will have it on their personal list.)


"What matters are movies, not awards; experiences, not celebrations; the subjective power of individual critical points of view, not the declamatory compromises of consensus." - Richard Brody, "Godard's Surprise Win Is a Victory for Independent Cinema," The New Yorker

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30 minutes ago, Christian said:

I just checked and was surprised to learn that I had only one selection from the 1990s on my list - and it was a last-second addition, almost an afterthought. (Although another 1990s title that I forgot to add just came to mind! Nah - on second thought, I'm not sure I would've added it. But I kind of wish I had; I don't think anyone else will have it on their personal list.)

I had 4 from the '90s as well as '80s. My most represented decade was the 2010s, but I guess that's in keeping with Ken's point about age and impact of movies. At the same time, I only had one from the '00s, so I think that balanced out.


"Anyway, in general I love tragic artists, especially classical ones."

"Even the forms for expressing truth can be multiform, and this is indeed necessary for the transmission of the Gospel in its timeless meaning."

- Pope Francis, August 2013 interview with Antonio Spadaro

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