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Top 100 Ties -- Feel Free to Vote to Break Ties  

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Hi all, 

In the interest of saving some time, I went ahead and made a poll for Top 100 Ties. I didn't include all the ties because a couple of films that tied will end up moved because of the 1 v 2 vote. 

I set the poll to expire Friday (the same time as the director's run offs). 

Much less is at stake in these (a difference of one ranking position,) so I'll understand if less people vote or care...but if you do, even just about one or two of them, feel free to register your opinion.

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On 5/18/2020 at 10:44 PM, WriterAndrew said:

Can you set it so it's not required for us to vote in every tie?

Couldn't figure out how to make a question non-mandatory, but I did add a "no-preference" option to each question.

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This process is getting increasingly strenuous, which I feel is a good thing.


"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

Filmwell | Twitter

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14 minutes ago, M. Leary said:

This process is getting increasingly strenuous, which I feel is a good thing.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be such. The difference between 88 and 89 on the list isn't all the meaningful to me, but I didn't want to merely flip a coin if it was to someone else.

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I appreciate it! I think it is a good thing to work through these options to sharpen up the list, in the way you have formatted everything. 

A local radio station does a "sweet 16" on different themes every week (junk food, action movies, etc...). It takes them about 1.5 hours, as they are all sharing their reasoning for various binary choices. I would love to have heard your thoughts, in the same way, as you navigated the above. The Work is an incredibly meaningful film for me, but Ushpizin is one of the few Israeli and Jewish films we have on the list. If I had to pick one recent Israeli film for the list, it would easily be GettGett is not only focused on a woman's experience of divorce in the orthodox context - it is co-directed by one of few working Israeli female directors. It checks every box on our Top 100 criteria. But in this specific choice, The Work highlights a spiritual experience few people get to see, unless they are somehow involved with volunteer prison counseling or chaplaincy. It is not a landmark documentary in formal terms, but it captures a few significant experiences in my life I have always had a hard time communicating well with other people. And then back to UshpizinA Serious Man is an incomparably Jewish film that takes us a few places Ushpizin does not. And I still find it a near flawless film, frame to frame.

I could go on, but I have enjoyed hearing the thought processes of other people faced with these list choices. This, to me, is the most interesting feature of our canon-making that I hope is captured in the capsules or intro.

 


"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

Filmwell | Twitter

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1 hour ago, M. Leary said:

I could go on, but I have enjoyed hearing the thought processes of other people faced with these list choices. This, to me, is the most interesting feature of our canon-making that I hope is captured in the capsules or intro.

 

Your post reminds me of the hours I spent on and the nostalgia I feel for the old 90s site, Whatsbetter.com. It was a database of thousands of random items (people, places, things, events, concepts) some of them uploaded by users. The site would randomly pair two of them and you would click on whichever one was "better"? The score attached to that item would be adjusted based on Chess-like ELO ratings, and, seemingly everything in the universe would be eventually ranked from best to worst.

I never did manage to figure out why the pleasure of the occasional apt pairing (Ordet or The Passion of Joan of Arc) never managed to match the fun of trying to decide between two categorically different things: bullet trains or cauliflower; magnets or kittens; shower mold or The Dallas Cowboys? I miss that site.

Most of these ties weren't that hard for me because I hadn't given the same score to both of them (even if we corporately did). The only one I struggled with was Calvary and I Am Not Your Negro. Ultimately I gave the nod to Calvary because I've seen it several times, and I think it actually improves with repeat viewings. Peck's film I've only seen once, and while I remember appreciating it, I haven't yet begun to separate my affinity for the subject matter from my appreciation of the artistry.

 

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2 hours ago, M. Leary said:

If I had to pick one recent Israeli film for the list, it would easily be Gett.

One of my all-time favorite films, and one I strongly considered nominating...but when I've suggested it in the past (for the Top 25 films on marriage) it didn't get much traction, sadly. I've seen others (not necessarily on A&F) compare it as a lesser version of Farhadi's A Separation, a comparison which feels way too simplistic to me. Here's our thread for the film.

18 minutes ago, Darren H said:

Did you Ronit Elkabetz died of lung cancer in 2016? Such a loss. She was only 51.

I remember when this happened. So tragic.

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1 hour ago, Joel Mayward said:

One of my all-time favorite films, and one I strongly considered nominating...but when I've suggested it in the past (for the Top 25 films on marriage) it didn't get much traction, sadly.

I don't recall participating in the Marriage list, but I recall the film being on the Ecumenical Jury for whatever year. 

I was rooting around at Image Good Letters looking for the *introduction* to 2010 list so that I could add a link to it and I found a couple of old Ecumenical Jury results, so when I have a free moment, I might populate the master list directory with copies of those lists (per Image's permission to reprint here stuff that is A&F list related). Part of having the lists archived here and not just externally is improving the institutional memory. While doing nominations for the 2020 list, I am sure I am not the only person who treated past lists as "reminder" lists, whether they be my personal Top 10s or other A&F lists.

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Y'know, looking through the Top 25 Marriage threads, I don't see Gett being discussed...maybe I'm totally misremembering this, or attributing my memory to another conversation elsewhere. Whatever the case, I'm glad for it to be recognized here.

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19 minutes ago, Joel Mayward said:

Y'know, looking through the Top 25 Marriage threads, I don't see Gett being discussed...maybe I'm totally misremembering this, or attributing my memory to another conversation elsewhere. Whatever the case, I'm glad for it to be recognized here.

I know Gett was released in 2015, and I think the top 25 marriage list was 2013 or 2014, so I don't think it was discussed then. But yes, it's a film we should definitely keep in mind for future lists.


"Anyway, in general I love tragic artists, especially classical ones."

"Even the forms for expressing truth can be multiform, and this is indeed necessary for the transmission of the Gospel in its timeless meaning."

- Pope Francis, August 2013 interview with Antonio Spadaro

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3 hours ago, kenmorefield said:

Your post reminds me of the hours I spent on and the nostalgia I feel for the old 90s site, Whatsbetter.com. It was a database of thousands of random items (people, places, things, events, concepts) some of them uploaded by users. The site would randomly pair two of them and you would click on whichever one was "better"? The score attached to that item would be adjusted based on Chess-like ELO ratings, and, seemingly everything in the universe would be eventually ranked from best to worst.

I never did manage to figure out why the pleasure of the occasional apt pairing (Ordet or The Passion of Joan of Arc) never managed to match the fun of trying to decide between two categorically different things: bullet trains or cauliflower; magnets or kittens; shower mold or The Dallas Cowboys? I miss that site.

Most of these ties weren't that hard for me because I hadn't given the same score to both of them (even if we corporately did). The only one I struggled with was Calvary and I Am Not Your Negro. Ultimately I gave the nod to Calvary because I've seen it several times, and I think it actually improves with repeat viewings. Peck's film I've only seen once, and while I remember appreciating it, I haven't yet begun to separate my affinity for the subject matter from my appreciation of the artistry.

 

This is a great use of the internet. I could imagine someone constructing a database of all the films discussed at A&F. Let's say, 2000 choices. Films are paired randomly for binary selection. We run this for a year, with jury members casually picking stuff over the course of that year. The 100 with the most points are then ranked as the official list.

Even better, the list is not just titles, but also still images and short sequences to compare with no other identifying info. This would protect the selection process from priming based on titles/directors.


"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

Filmwell | Twitter

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3 hours ago, kenmorefield said:

Your post reminds me of the hours I spent on and the nostalgia I feel for the old 90s site, Whatsbetter.com. It was a database of thousands of random items (people, places, things, events, concepts) some of them uploaded by users. The site would randomly pair two of them and you would click on whichever one was "better"? The score attached to that item would be adjusted based on Chess-like ELO ratings, and, seemingly everything in the universe would be eventually ranked from best to worst.

 

10 minutes ago, M. Leary said:

This is a great use of the internet. I could imagine someone constructing a database of all the films discussed at A&F. Let's say, 2000 choices. Films are paired randomly for binary selection. We run this for a year, with jury members casually picking stuff over the course of that year. The 100 with the most points are then ranked as the official list.

Even better, the list is not just titles, but also still images and short sequences to compare with no other identifying info. This would protect the selection process from priming based on titles/directors.

There is a website that does something like this called Flickchart. You choose the "better" of two films and after a certain number of selections it generates a ranked list for you of about 20 films. You can also add films to your list when you see them. The thing is, if I remember, it takes the initial list to be pretty rigid, so once your original list is generated, the mechanism just puts things higher or lower based on how you compare it to films already on the list rather than more holistically. Or maybe I just didn't figure out how to manipulate the tool.

They also have an all time ranked list generated by all users. It's pretty predictable. Top 5 in order are Star wars, Empire Strikes Back, The Godfather, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Shawshank Redemption. But there are some surprises, such as Ikiru at #10.

I wish there was some website where you could just paste in a list of items and then it would present them to you as choices and generate a ranked list. I'm sure someone has created an algorithm for that.

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So, we ended up with three coin flips. Winners of the coin toss:

Heartbeat Detector (over Moment of Innocence)

Lourdes (over Cameraperson)

Nazarin (over What Time is It There?)

 

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