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I have a deep, deep suspicion that

the plot to get the O6+Locke back on the island is nothing more than Ben's maniacal noodling. And that S5 will alternately show the O6 being persuaded, Locke failing as a leader, and some other mysteries revealed. I suspect the S5 cliffhanger will be when the O6 actually do return (perhaps against their will), with Ben pulling the strings at nearly every moment.

I mean, do we expect that the Ben at the last ten minutes of the finale to be none other than the same Ben who allowed the freighter's explosives to detonate?

("So?")

BTW, regarding the contents of the casket: when I first heard "Jeremy Bentham", I ran to the PC and ran a search, confusing it with "Jeremy Davies"--the actor who plays Daniel, ultimately realizing that (a)the character had not been introduced, and (b)thanks to Hugorley, it was a changed identity of someone who was already introduced). After that, , I kept calling it wrong on who it HAD to be: (Michael! Desmond! Julliet! Ben! Waaaaaaaalt!) The writers on that show are just, just, too awesome for words.

Nick Alexander

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I'm just going to spoilerize this whole thing, because I don't want to take the time to spoilerize individual words or sentences.

They have asked the fans to swallow something huge with the whole Island moving scenario. I don't need a practical, scientific explanation for it, but I don't want it to just be a plot point that they use to get the story where they want it to go. I don't think it will be.

Well, I will not be convinced that Jin is dead until I see his body. He was at the edge of the boat when the explosion happened and he could have survived. The fact that the rumor was out there that 3 original cast members died doesn't mean that they truly died - only that the person relating that rumor thought they died. Michael is dead though. The Island was finished with him. Locke, evidently is dead as well - sometime in the future. I wonder what terrible things happened on the Island after the O6 left? I'm sure we will find out next season.

Sun is stone cold. She is going to turn into Jin and her father. She is ruthless. You can see it in her face. She has lost the love of her life and in turn lost her soul. I think Jin is still alive and their reunion will be difficult due to Sun's massive change.

I wonder how long Penny's boat had been searching for the Island or the freighter with no luck, but right after the Island moves she is able to find the raft.

Sawyer once again shows what it means to be a hero. That is a man for you right there.

Side note: The three "survivors" of the crash that died before they were rescued were: Libby, Boone and Charlie. Interesting that they chose those three. I guess they had to pick people they knew and were dead.

One thing that struck me is that Jack ends up agreeing with Locke when he realizes that Locke was right, even though he still tries to lie to himself and the other "rafties" that the Island did not move. He goes with Locke's plan; Lie about the Island. Locke nailed his reaction perfectly. He would be driven crazy if he left the Island. I'm sure that just drives Jack even crazier. But my question is this: Were either of them right? It doesn't seem like the decision to stay on the Island and "move" it turned out well for Locke. What is the place of peace for these characters? Are they doomed to misery? I hope not.

"The greatest meat of all. The meat of friendship and fatherhood."

The Blue Raft - Are you ready to ride?

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Anyway, a few nagging questions I'm hoping someone can help with:

1) Remind me how the press/public has never caught on to Walt being a survivor.

This is a great question. He was brought home by the Others, so they could have done it without a lot of fanfare but do they have some sort of witness relocation program? --nope. he lives with his grandma. And probably goes to school with kids that know about the crash.

I surmised that he never lived with his grandma until he returned from the island, and Michael and others never made mention of being on flight 815. Perhaps Walt is not telling everything he knows to his grandma, and there's no reason to tell anything to his classmates. He was in Australia--his mom died, and his dad brought him home to live with his grandmother (who knows Michael is in some sort of trouble).

I don't think it'd be as simple as just not telling anyone. I mean, with all the publicity surrounding the crash, and then the return, surely the passenger manifest had been public knowledge for quite some time, and *somebody* would have realized that Walt's name was on the list, but that he was still living with grandma. *Especially* considering that Michael lays low when he returns, letting everyone think he died in the crash. So wouldn't people wonder exactly how Walt got home when dad was on the plane that crashed?

As far as who's left to rescue--after their failed experiment with Nikki and Paolo, the writers have done good by not showing everyone left--but lets assume 7 died on the Island (N, P, Artz, Scott, the Marshall, Charlie), 2 escape with the Others (Michael, Walt), 6 with Jack, 4 die on the freighter (Jin, the other three on Daniel's boat), 5 are with Daniel on the Zodiac. That means (what 40+ original survivors?) there are 16+ left on the Island, and the kids from the tail section.

Yeah, I know there are some "random" survivors left, but they sure haven't left many that we know or care about. I suspect next season they're either going to be spending a large majority of screen time off the island or they're going to have to start getting us better acquainted with more of the Others. And I'm still unsure, given your calculations about the number remaining, that they all really decided those survivors would rather just live on the island for the rest of their lives than have a chance to be rescued.

Still left hanging:

what were the Others so interested in the kids for? What actually does the Island do (besides glowing) that would make Ben and Widmore willing to take on dozens if not hundreds of collateral casualties? Is anyone really dead? Who was the 4 toed statue? Could Locke walk when he got off the Island? What were the bad things that happened?

More, of which I think at least a few could have been thrown in to give this finale a little more "meat":

  • What's the smoke monster?

What are the numbers?

What happened to Claire?

What's with the whispering?

Polar bears?

Visions of dead people?

Why do pregnant women die?

Why doesn't Alpert age?

Etc.

I wonder how long Penny's boat had been searching for the Island or the freighter with no luck, but right after the Island moves she is able to find the raft.

FWIW, I think

she made a comment about tracking the call that Desmond had made from the freighter, so it sounds like she would have had a reason to search that specific area within the previous couple of days.

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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I don't think it'd be as simple as just not telling anyone. I mean, with all the publicity surrounding the crash, and then the return, surely the passenger manifest had been public knowledge for quite some time, and *somebody* would have realized that Walt's name was on the list, but that he was still living with grandma. *Especially* considering that Michael lays low when he returns, letting everyone think he died in the crash. So wouldn't people wonder exactly how Walt got home when dad was on the plane that crashed?

This presumes they told people outside of Grandma that his name is Walt and that people know he is her grandson. May just as likely made a public face of being a foster child or something. We have two more seasons to reveal answers to the questions that remain...Lost is a series where the loose ends do not need to all be tied up at the end of a season to be a satisfactory season finale. If the series ends without resolutions of some of those things...then I might get annoyed. But then, i did not hate season three either. Apparently, I am under the impression these days that a lot of people do.

"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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We have two more seasons to reveal answers to the questions that remain...Lost is a series where the loose ends do not need to all be tied up at the end of a season to be a satisfactory season finale. If the series ends without resolutions of some of those things...then I might get annoyed. But then, i did not hate season three either. Apparently, I am under the impression these days that a lot of people do.

You and me both. Sounds like there's a lot of nitpicking going on around here.

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We have two more seasons to reveal answers to the questions that remain...Lost is a series where the loose ends do not need to all be tied up at the end of a season to be a satisfactory season finale. If the series ends without resolutions of some of those things...then I might get annoyed. But then, i did not hate season three either. Apparently, I am under the impression these days that a lot of people do.

You and me both. Sounds like there's a lot of nitpicking going on around here.

I'm not sure how you're defining the nitpicking. The questions I asked were a combination of a few things that I just hadn't figured out, and didn't know if there were answers to (Walt), and a few things that stuck out enough to frustrate my ability to simply enjoy the show and go with it (Lying without satisfactory cause about the rest of the survivors.)

As far as the unanswered questions go, just because loose ends don't need to be tied up to make for a satisfactory season finale, that doesn't mean that the finale is necessarily satisfactory regardless of whether loose ends are tied up. Lost has always had to walk the line between not giving away too much but revealing enough to keep the process of watching enjoyable. This season was fantastic overall, largely due in my estimation to the freedom the writers are feeling with the self-imposed series deadline to not have to hang on to as many secrets as possible for as long as possible. Season 3 was a lousy season (especially in the middle) because the show got away from the mystery angle, ignored all the unanswered questions, and focused on inter-island squables for too long.

The problem with the finale this time was that it just didn't pack the punch I expect from a Lost finale. I expect to finish the finale excited about the possibilities for the upcoming season - possibilities I probably didn't even see coming before the finale. They didn't setup anything for next season that we didn't already see coming (we knew the O6 would get off the island) and that we haven't already been experiencing through all the fast forwards. They should have saved something like the scene from a few weeks back with Ben waking up wounded in the desert for the final scene of the finale. Give us something to scratch our heads over. That's what we love about the show.

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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popechild:

You are not scratching your head about

Locke in the casket? Why did he leave the Island? Where did the Island end up? At what point in time did the Island end up? What terrible things happen on the Island after the Oceanic 6 leave?

These are just a few things that have me excited about next season.

"The greatest meat of all. The meat of friendship and fatherhood."

The Blue Raft - Are you ready to ride?

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popechild:

You are not scratching your head about

Locke in the casket? Why did he leave the Island? Where did the Island end up? At what point in time did the Island end up? What terrible things happen on the Island after the Oceanic 6 leave?

These are just a few things that have me excited about next season.

Sort of. But none of them are really game changers. Small details as they were, I love just being floored by something I didn't see coming, that totally redefines or expands what I thought I knew about the Lost world. Like "who are those people in the little ice hut, and how were they able to see the island explosion?" or "what the ___ is up with that huge, four toed foot?"

We knew someone was in the casket. We knew the island was going to be moved. And terrible things always happen on the island. Those are all good elements, but - I don't know why - those all just seemed like regular season episode kinds of things, not season finales. (Come to think of it, the

moving island

would have actually been a really good thing to not tease for 2 or 3 episodes first. If they just had Locke and Hurley following Ben around because he had "a plan" that he hadn't described, that shot of

the island disappearing right in front of them

would have been much, much cooler, and probably would have felt like a much bigger revelation.)

Maybe part of the reason the casket revelation didn't throw me as much as it seems it did to some people is that it's stuck in a flash forward. I think the real intrigue tends to revolve around what's going on *now*, and the flashbacks and flash-forwards help shed light on that. But all the casket thing did (besides answering part of one of the questions we had, which was good), was tell us that

Locke dies at some point, for some reason, three years from now.

Well...okay.

I mean, it wasn't that it was a bad episode, they've just tended to do much better on the previous season finales.

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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Maybe part of the reason the casket revelation didn't throw me as much as it seems it did to some people is that it's stuck in a flash forward. I think the real intrigue tends to revolve around what's going on *now*, and the flashbacks and flash-forwards help shed light on that. But all the casket thing did (besides answering part of one of the questions we had, which was good), was tell us that

Locke dies at some point, for some reason, three years from now.

Well...okay.

Technically, the flash forwards are the "what's happening now"...and the island stuff are all flash backs. :)

Edited by Nezpop

"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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popechild said:

Sort of. But none of them are really game changers. Small details as they were, I love just being floored by something I didn't see coming, that totally redefines or expands what I thought I knew about the Lost world. Like "who are those people in the little ice hut, and how were they able to see the island explosion?" or "what the ___ is up with that huge, four toed foot?"

Call me crazy, but

I have never viewed those revelations as "game changers". The four toed statue was cool and blew my mind, but it didn't change the game. They haven't even come back to it yet. It didn't affect the way the characters view the Island or even the way we understand the Island. But the Island moving seems to be a huge game changer. I find the idea of changing the format of the show to be a pretty huge deal as well. Throughout Season 4 they used the Flash Forward format to much success. But the flash fowards were not advancing the plot on the Island - they were simply showing us what had happened after the Oceanic Six got off the Island. Next season, it seems they will have to begin the process of connecting the plots off Island (3 years in the future) and on Island (when and where we are not sure at this point). That fascinates me. We could possibly be following the Oceanic Six as they attempt to get back to the Island while still watching those left behind survive the "terrible" events that are happening somewhere, sometime. How do you connect those dots? How do you make it interesting and engaging? It leaves so many possibilities available.

"The greatest meat of all. The meat of friendship and fatherhood."

The Blue Raft - Are you ready to ride?

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This season had so many strong elements that eclipsed the end of the finale. That makes me a little bit aware that the series finale will struggle mightily with being anticlimatic. Of course, none of this bothers me since I'm sitting 1 block away from the Atlantic Ocean on vacation checking in on A&F while the kids nap.

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Maybe part of the reason the casket revelation didn't throw me as much as it seems it did to some people is that it's stuck in a flash forward. I think the real intrigue tends to revolve around what's going on *now*, and the flashbacks and flash-forwards help shed light on that. But all the casket thing did (besides answering part of one of the questions we had, which was good), was tell us that

Locke dies at some point, for some reason, three years from now.

Well...okay.

Technically, the flash forwards are the "what's happening now"...and the island stuff are all flash backs. :)

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. If so, when did this change? Or are you just playing around with looking at it from a different perspective? As in, you could say that all of the flashbacks to pre-island are "what's happening now" and all of the island and post-island stuff is ALL flash-forward...

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. If so, when did this change? Or are you just playing around with looking at it from a different perspective? As in, you could say that all of the flashbacks to pre-island are "what's happening now" and all of the island and post-island stuff is ALL flash-forward...

Well, the Flash Forwards are happening in

2008

. The Island stuff is still

2004/2005

. The show technically jumped to the present at the end of season 3. I just like to think of it as part of the whole "messed up time" deal.

Edited by Nezpop

"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. If so, when did this change? Or are you just playing around with looking at it from a different perspective? As in, you could say that all of the flashbacks to pre-island are "what's happening now" and all of the island and post-island stuff is ALL flash-forward...

Well, the Flash Forwards are happening in

2008

. The Island stuff is still

2004/2005

. The show technically jumped to the present at the end of season 3. I just like to think of it as part of the whole "messed up time" deal.

Ahh, I see what you mean. So nothing's actually changed in the presentation of the show, you're saying that from the beginning (ala all of season 1 & 2), all we ever saw were flashbacks, and flashbacks within flashbacks, but just based on the relationship to real-world timing. Or actually, I guess it's more that when season 1 first aired, it was "what's happening now," but if I go back and watch an episode of Season 1 on dvd now, it's actually a flashback now... And, by that logic, the entire Indiana Jones series was a flashback, and the entire Battlestar Galactica series is a flash-forward. Or something.

Either way, I stand by my point. :P

Edited by popechild

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. If so, when did this change? Or are you just playing around with looking at it from a different perspective? As in, you could say that all of the flashbacks to pre-island are "what's happening now" and all of the island and post-island stuff is ALL flash-forward...

Well, the Flash Forwards are happening in

2008

. The Island stuff is still

2004/2005

. The show technically jumped to the present at the end of season 3. I just like to think of it as part of the whole "messed up time" deal.

Actually, while it is not out of the question that some of the indeterminate flashforwards COULD be in 2008, the majority of them happen between '04 and '08. See Lostpedia's post-island timeline.

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Lost Season 4 is Lindehof's "The Empire Strikes Back". The Lostie's are scattered, the bad guy's (Widmore, Linus?) have achieved some kind of temporary victory. The Island's been found and lost again, much blood letting has occurred, and the heroes are being called to gel once more for a final decisive struggle. None of them have been found--and forces beyond their understanding are working to undermine them. Instead of Han Solo frozen in carbonite, Sawyer is stranded on the hidden Island. Its Locke who's locked in a mahogany coffin instead of carbonite, but its Linus who's intent on organizing a rescue. Jack's plans to keep his friends safe don't make a lot of sense (yet), but his do-gooderness will let to fanatical devotion to the mysterious Island, much like Luke's journey from apprentice to wobbly solitary Jedi. Desmond's Lando Calrissian has not been a weak ally since early in Season 2, but his and Penny's boat will be critical in the Lostie's completed adventures.

Hurley's Yoda keeps having disturbing visions urging on future Jack to do the right thing--even though it means sacrifice.

And Sayid? Well, wouldn't it have been cool if Boba Fett (pre ROTJ stupidity) joined the rebellion?

Maybe I'm just too bored with the reality of being back from vacation.

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  • 1 month later...

Only 34 hours remain to find out all the answers...

Writer-producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof said Friday that they know exactly how the ABC series will end.

"We have 34 hours left for you guys to see

Formerly Baal_T'shuvah

"Everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. You just can't let the world judge you too much." - Maude 
Harold and Maude
 

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Only 34 hours remain to find out all the answers...

Writer-producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof said Friday that they know exactly how the ABC series will end.

"We have 34 hours left for you guys to see

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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34 hours? Those are gonna be some pretty short seasons. Am I allowed to be peeved about that?
That works out to two 22-23 episode seasons if each episode is the typical length while giving them some extra minutes to occasionally do one of those extra long episodes. Sounds about right to me.

Oh, you mean they're counting each "hour" episode as 44 minutes or whatever it is without the commercials? If that's the case, then I withdraw my complaint.

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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34 hours? Those are gonna be some pretty short seasons. Am I allowed to be peeved about that?
That works out to two 22-23 episode seasons if each episode is the typical length while giving them some extra minutes to occasionally do one of those extra long episodes. Sounds about right to me.

Oh, you mean they're counting each "hour" episode as 44 minutes or whatever it is without the commercials? If that's the case, then I withdraw my complaint.

There will be about 17 or eight episode for each of the two final seasons. It was announced before season four, when they announced the final season would be in 2010 that there were 48 episodes left. That was going to mean 16 episodes a season, but the writer's strike threw that off. Season four was only about two or three episodes short. Those will be absorbed into seasons five and six.

Edited by Nezpop

"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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34 hours? Those are gonna be some pretty short seasons. Am I allowed to be peeved about that?
That works out to two 22-23 episode seasons if each episode is the typical length while giving them some extra minutes to occasionally do one of those extra long episodes. Sounds about right to me.

Oh, you mean they're counting each "hour" episode as 44 minutes or whatever it is without the commercials? If that's the case, then I withdraw my complaint.

There will be about 17 or eight episode for each of the two final seasons. It was announced before season four, when they announced the final season would be in 2010 that there were 48 episodes left. That was going to mean 16 episodes a season, but the writer's strike threw that off. Season four was only about two or three episodes short. Those will be absorbed into seasons five and six.

Okay, now I'm back to being annoyed again. :)

"You guys don't really know who you're dealing with."

"Oh yeah, and who exactly are we dealing with?"

"I'm the mother flippin' rhymenoceros."

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I don't know, though. Maybe I have gotten used to British television and cable series, both which only average around 12-13 episodes a season...I think they are trying to avoid falling into a trap of having to much filler. Since announcing the end in 2010, they sure seemed to find new footing in season four. There is usually so much filler, I am starting to feel maybe more shows should stop trying to do 22 episode seasons.

"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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