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I don't post here very much but my question from last night's episode is: is Jacob God/Christ (or something symbolizing that) and is possessed Locke really Satan? I think Locke is very much dead. The reason I ask is the conversation the two had at the beginning of the show. "you know how bad I want to kill you" and so forth.

Anyways I thought the finale was great.

That was exactly what I came away with. Seemed like the symbolism was setting up the bearded guy as a Lucifer figure, rebelling against Jacob/God, trying to overthrow and kill him. But then I thought that seemed too obvious and biblically symbolic for a show like Lost.

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I got turned around and watched the second half first. Weird.

It was interesting to hear Sawyer saying, "What's done is done," and Jack reply, "What's meant to be is meant to be." Does this represent the Jacob/Anti-Jacob divide? Both quotes seem awfully deterministic. The exchange represents two sides of something. I know that at least.

In recent episodes, I've been consistently surprised by how little Jack is phased when other characters remind him of his past in an attempt to change his mind about "destiny": "You wouldn't have acted/thought this way before." But now I wonder if maybe those words simply reinforce his desire to reset the clock, to return to the way he once was, before the island broke him and rendered him unfit and unable to love.

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I've been curious about how quickly people have taken to calling Jacob's opponent Esau. Almost every site I read has instantly grabbed on to this, even though we never got a name. What caused people to be so willing to nickname him Esau as if it was the characters established name?

(I get the religious connection-just unsure why we presume that the character is named Jacob as a biblical parallel, considering the use of Egyptian and Greek iconography being possible cues)

Edited by Nezpop

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I've been curious about how quickly people have taken to calling Jacob's opponent Esau. Almost every site I read has instantly grabbed on to this, even though we never got a name. What caused people to be so willing to nickname him Esau as if it was the characters established name?

(I get the religious connection-just unsure why we presume that the character is named Jacob as a biblical parallel, considering the use of Egyptian and Greek iconography being possible cues)

Time magazine called him "Fred."

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I called him Esau because I had nothing else to call him, well, I also called him Yang. And blackshirt.

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I think Esau just seems like a handy nickname for someone who wants to kill Jacob. :)

But I wouldn't discount the possibility of deliberate biblical parallels, either. This is a show that just emphasized to us that someone was reading Flannery O'Connor, and recently named a character after C. S. Lewis.

Edited by Helen

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But I wouldn't discount the possibility of deliberate biblical parallels, either. This is a show that just emphasized to us that someone was reading Flannery O'Connor, and recently named a character after C. S. Lewis.

Agree that deliberate biblical parallels are always a strong possibility on Lost. Where the writers are going with it, I have no idea.

About that Flannery story Jacob was reading - why "Everything that Rises Must Converge," and not something more overtly dealing with faith, sacrifice and redemption, like "Wise Blood"? The Lostie writers use lots of literary references, but I was thinking the mother-son relationship in "Everything that Rises" fits right into the woefully imperfect parent-child relationships that fill the back stories of most of the show's characters.

Random thoughts for the day.

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I think Esau just seems like a handy nickname for someone who wants to kill Jacob. :)

But I wouldn't discount the possibility of deliberate biblical parallels, either. This is a show that just emphasized to us that someone was reading Flannery O'Connor, and recently named a character after C. S. Lewis.

I certainly do not mean to discount the possibilities...I just didn't catch who people on various sites were referring to as quickly as I did guy in black. I am more on the X-Files side of naming people. He's always smoking-he's the Cigarette Smoking Man! :)

By the way...am I the only one who heard Ilana as for Ricardo? I've seen two different people say she asked for "Ricardus".

Edited by Nezpop

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One question someone might know the answer to: Who is Alana (I know she's the bounty hunter who arrested Sayid, but who in the larger sense), and why was she bandaged in a hospital when Jacob visited her asking for help? My first thought was that she was Sayid's wife - reconstructed after the accident. Jacob's visit with Sayid was the only one that was unpleasant - with Sayid's wife run down in the street. Link?

I don't think Ilana is Sayid's reconstructed wife (though stranger things have happened in Lost, I suppose). In the scene where she's bandaged up and meets with Jacob, it sounded to me like she and nurse were conversing in Russian -- or at least, it sounded like Russian to my ears.

I also found it interesting that Jacob's visit with Sayid was markedly different than his other visits. For everyone else, Jacob had some kind word or deed. I suppose you could say that Jacob preventing Sayid from being hit by the car was a kind deed, but everything else about it seemed rather cold and heartless (e.g., presumably disappearing after Sayid's wife is hit).

By the way...am I the only one who heard Ilana as for Ricardo? I've seen two different people say she asked for "Ricardus".

It sounded like "Ricardo" to me. However, he did respond to her question in Latin and "Ricardus" does sound more Latin-y to me. But that seems like a stretch to me (even though this is Lost we're talking about).

Edited by opus

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About that Flannery story Jacob was reading - why "Everything that Rises Must Converge," and not something more overtly dealing with faith, sacrifice and redemption, like "Wise Blood"? The Lostie writers use lots of literary references, but I was thinking the mother-son relationship in "Everything that Rises" fits right into the woefully imperfect parent-child relationships that fill the back stories of most of the show's characters.

Mind you, the Everything That Rises Must Converge Jacob was reading was the collection of short stories. It could've been any from that collection (including the title story, of course).

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It sounded like "Ricardo" to me. However, he did respond to her question in Latin and "Ricardus" does sound more Latin-y to me. But that seems like a stretch to me (even though this is Lost we're talking about).

His follow up statement was in Latin, so I assumed it was Ricardus (which was also what the closed captioning said). That would be the right gender suffix.

Mind you, the Everything That Rises Must Converge Jacob was reading was the collection of short stories. It could've been any from that collection (including the title story, of course).

I am not sure just how literate the writers are, but O'Connor took that title from a famous de Chardin quote. De Chardin was a prolific Catholic theologian of a very past generation that described what he referred to as Omega Point. According to de Chardin, the universe is always evolving towards an increasing complexity and collective intelligence. He co-opts the concept of Logos to explain that this process is occuring because an Omega Point, representing the independent and transcendent collection of all this intelligence, exists independent of this evolutionary process and is drawing all of us along into an eschatological shift. In essence, Omega Point is God, and God is tugging us along towards a greater understanding of who He is and how he relates to all material existence. All things are rising, and all things will converge.

O'Connor's title alludes to this way of thinking about God-talk and process, and it isn't too much of a stretch to read the initial Jacob/Anonymous Man conversation in light of it. (Though that conversation also rings of stoicism, which disagrees vehemently with a de Chardin description of the universe.)

Color me impressed if the writers are savvy to the de Chardin reference.

Edited by MLeary

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It sounded like "Ricardo" to me. However, he did respond to her question in Latin and "Ricardus" does sound more Latin-y to me. But that seems like a stretch to me (even though this is Lost we're talking about).

His follow up statement was in Latin, so I assumed it was Ricardus (which was also what the closed captioning said). That would be the right gender suffix.

Mind you, the Everything That Rises Must Converge Jacob was reading was the collection of short stories. It could've been any from that collection (including the title story, of course).

I am not sure just how literate the writers are, but O'Connor took that title from a famous de Chardin quote. De Chardin was a prolific Catholic theologian of a very past generation that described what he referred to as Omega Point. According to de Chardin, the universe is always evolving towards an increasing complexity and collective intelligence. He co-opts the concept of Logos to explain that this process is occuring because an Omega Point, representing the independent and transcendent collection of all this intelligence, exists independent of this evolutionary process and is drawing all of us along into an eschatological shift. In essence, Omega Point is God, and God is tugging us along towards a greater understanding of who He is and how he relates to all material existence. All things are rising, and all things will converge.

O'Connor's title alludes to this way of thinking about God-talk and process, and it isn't too much of a stretch to read the initial Jacob/Anonymous Man conversation in light of it. (Though that conversation also rings of stoicism, which disagrees vehemently with a de Chardin description of the universe.)

Color me impressed if the writers are savvy to the de Chardin reference.

I'd be willing to be that the writers are fairly literate, since they've been naming characters after philosophers & physicists since day 1. David Lavery agrees with Mleary that the important thing about the scene with the book is probably the title & its de Chardin allusion, phrasing it a bit differently:

Chardin believed his Omega entity was basically Jesus Christ himself. His phrase "everything that rises must converge," is a poetical expression of a key Christian idea know in the Greek [as] apokatastasis ... the idea that in the end Satan will be defeated and that all of creation will be redeemed and unified under Christ. "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself." (John 12:31-32). Or again, to use a line from the show:

"He who will save us all." That, my friends, is the answer, translated from Richard Alpert's Latin, to Ilana's riddle: "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"

David's written at least two books on Lost.

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ABC's new fall season promo, featuring none other than Dominic Monaghan (aka Charlie). heh, let the speculation begin: is Charlie going to be back for the final season--or is he in the promo because he's possibly in another fall show?

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Interesting...plus, Ed O'Neill says, "You're so lost!" ABC is probably just playing with people, but maybe he is returning. (I mean, Claire's character will be back, so....)

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I'm not going to be reading any of the posts here, I am WAAAAY to afraid of spoilers, but I thought I'd let everyone know that the DVD and Bluray collections of Seasons 1-5 are DEEPLY discounted on Amazon today.

$108.99 For the Bluray! (I nabbed these)

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Complete-Seasons-1-5-Blu-ray/dp/B0021L8FR6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260334808&sr=1-4

$72.99 for the DVDs!

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-The-Complete-Seasons-1-5/dp/B0021L8FO4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1260334859&sr=1-6

FYI, the Bluray seasons run for 45-50 bucks and the DVD seasons run 35-45.

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Laura Leonard at CT Movies & TV blogs about the Christian themes in LOST final season promos. I must admit that I've found LOST to be uneven, but since they announced an ending to the series, the last season or so have had a bit more shape and coherence, so I'm looking forward to this wrap up.

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Laura Leonard at CT Movies & TV blogs about the Christian themes in LOST final season promos. I must admit that I've found LOST to be uneven, but since they announced an ending to the series, the last season or so have had a bit more shape and coherence, so I'm looking forward to this wrap up.

Just posted the Spanish promo to my Facebook page. It's easily the coolest Lost promo ever, in my opinion. Why don't more TV shows include ancient mystic poetry and songs by Radiohead in their teaser promotions?

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I was looking at Evangeline Lilly's IMDB page to confirm she was indeed in The Hurt Locker (she played Jeremy Renner's wife) and I found this list:

Do shows usually announce episode titles ahead of air dates like this? It seems especially surprising given how secretive Abrams and Co. have been about everything else regarding the new season.

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I was looking at Evangeline Lilly's IMDB page to confirm she was indeed in The Hurt Locker (she played Jeremy Renner's wife) and I found this list:

Do shows usually announce episode titles ahead of air dates like this? It seems especially surprising given how secretive Abrams and Co. have been about everything else regarding the new season.

The Kate list is apparently a little jumbled. The series episode list puts them in order.

I was looking at Evangeline Lilly's IMDB page to confirm she was indeed in The Hurt Locker (she played Jeremy Renner's wife) and I found this list:

Do shows usually announce episode titles ahead of air dates like this? It seems especially surprising given how secretive Abrams and Co. have been about everything else regarding the new season.

The Kate list is apparently a little jumbled. The series episode list puts them in order.

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Here we go! Now that Lost is starting its final season, I'm brimming with excitement to see how (and if) the show can bring all its disparate threads to conclusion. I've long since given up trying to figure out some "Lost Theory of Everything" and am just along for the ride; but for my money, this has been one of the top three or four television shows I've seen. (I don't have cable, so all the HBO-grandeur is lost to me, and while I had Showtime for a few months, I was icked-out enough by Dexter that I am not interested in checking out the rest of the seasons). But, anyway, what big grand narrative shows have bitten off so much sci-fi plus wicked large chunks of (pop) theology and welded them together in such a compelling fashion? Galactica? Never saw an ep of the new series. So there.

So, I hope folks are sticking around and ready to jump into the conversation for the next five months.

Namaste, folks.

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I'll be avoiding the episode list above.

Here are my thoughts on things in the PREMIERE, so SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE PREMIERE YET:

Jack "recognized" Desmond some how. But in this "reality" they never would have met. If the bomb went off and sunk the island, Widmore would have died, and unless he'd had Penny already, Penny wouldn't exist. Even if she DID exist, Desmond wouldn't have a reason to enter the race, therefore no reason to train, so he never meets Jack. My friend mentioned that Desmond might be working as a "constant" again, since he's always seemed to be the one that the rules didn't apply to.

Some small things I noticed that aren't really BIG:

Kate took Jack's pen when they bumped into one another outside the bathroom. This is why Jack didn't have a pen to poke Charlie with.

Miles didn't hear anything from Sayid when he was "dead" which prompts Miles to say something like "Well anytime you wanna talk, I'll be here."

I am very excited for where this season will going.

Edit: Some more thoughts

It's been great seeing Ben, the great manipulator, finally finding someone he realizes he can't manipulate. Emerson does such a great job with his character and it was great seeing him in a totally futile position.

They still suck at CGI, that island was horrible.

What are the Asian guy and his translator from? I've seen them both places, but neither showed up on the IMDB page from my iPhone.

Edited by Scholar's Parrot

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Miles didn't hear anything from Sayid when he was "dead" which prompts Miles to say something like "Well anytime you wanna talk, I'll be here."

Actually, Hurley was the one who that. Hurley can have conversations with the dead-Miles know what they were thinking, but he insists he is unable to converse with the dead. Of course, in the flash back episode where he goes into the old woman's house and is really there to find the hidden money, he did tell the spirit/soul to move on-or something to that effect... so Miles could be lying or playing down his abilities.

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SPOILERS

I am on the fence with this one. I am not so sure I like the whole Locke transition, though the end of the first episode with Locke solemnly enduring being hoisted into the wheelchair on the plane was a fantastic moment. Great juxtaposition there. But I guess what I am worried about is that in order to solve all the Lost problems, they are going to have to demythologize many of the elements of the show that have kept us all engaged for so long.

The smoke monster is a good example. It was mysterious, mythical, a complete cipher. Because it was so abstract, it became a great metaphor for dread, for the mysterium tremendum et fascinans that was the island (in that Otto located both wonder and fear in mystery). But if they are going to unravel all of these mysterious elements through narrative mechanics such as Locke becoming the smoke monster when ticked off, then this last season is going to divest the show of its initial strengths. I hope that much is left to wonder, to mythology.

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So Flocke is the Smoke Monster? And he wants to go to the Temple with the snobby Japanese guy?

Two parallel timelines, alternate universes where the situations and choices that led our Losties to do what they did over the past few years have been transformed. Locke gets to go on his walkabout (or is not upset about being denied it, I forget whether he'd changed his ticket for an earlier flight when he was denied in Season 1). Boone doesn't get Shannon. Kate's caught, Charlie's stoned. It's interesting to see what crashing on the island had changed, and was it all for the better?

I didn't believe Sayid was dead, but I did like the nice touch of it not being in response to Jack's heroic efforts.

I don't believe we've seen the last of Juliet either.

I still wonder if we're not seeing some last bastion of the vanquished Egyptian gods duke it out over relevancy. What would ultimately be cool would be a Danielesque throwdown between the warring principalities. Or not. I read too many Peretti novels as a teen that I've seen the total lameness of that scenario.

Crossposted with Leary, I see. Mike, I don't know that I read the Flocke/smoky transformation as a demythologizing event--we'd been led to suspect that many of the ghostly appearances on the island, like Eko's brother, were, and I'm blanking on a better word, theophanies of the monster.

The difference, this time, is that as far as I know, none of the actors killed by the monster had recent DUI arrests.

Edited by Buckeye Jones

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Crossposted with Leary, I see. Mike, I don't know that I read the Flocke/smoky transformation as a demythologizing event--we'd been led to suspect that many of the ghostly appearances on the island, like Eko's brother, were, and I'm blanking on a better word, theophanies of the monster.

The show still can go either way, but television history has proven that we tend to find comfort and resolution in the demythologized. It has always seemed that the smoke monster does signify some sort of hierophany. I just hope the writers can stomach a turn towards the Twin Peaks Lynch here at the end and let it ride.

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