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Dramatically, this was really disappointing. What tension there was was manufactured outside of the story--that is, now we have to worry about the new Others (who I guess are the original others?) that we've just met--or if the guard was correct, met and forgot seasons ago. Who are these people? Aren't there enough other people who could have filled this role, or who weren't so blindingly mysterious--a quick, perfunctory "We're with Jacob, and he needs you" would somewhat suffice.

But no, we get "Trust us while we torture you, and give you 'medicine'. Which means, since we're trying to poison you, that any rapport we'd developed went right out the window and if before you had any inclination in helping us against Smoky, bet you don't now.

Still, the alternative timeline is a little interesting; and I'm still enjoying Sawyer, even if he's sulky. And as Jeff Jensen, in EW.com's column, mentions, Jack is becoming a richer and more likable Jack.

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Yawn. Jack's angry. Sawyer is sulking. They're captive to the Others. Is it Season 3 already?

But then there was the last ten minutes. Ethan in the flash sideways. Claire returns.

Are you really going to reduce Sawyer's behavior to "sulking?" He just lost the woman that he loves - the woman he has spent the last 3 years of his life with. I think he was doing a bit more than sulking.

It wasn't a great episode but they are clearly getting all the pieces in place for the final run. You can't have 18 hours of climax. I couldn't handle it.


"The greatest meat of all. The meat of friendship and fatherhood."

The Blue Raft - Are you ready to ride?

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Yawn. Jack's angry. Sawyer is sulking. They're captive to the Others. Is it Season 3 already?

But then there was the last ten minutes. Ethan in the flash sideways. Claire returns.

Are you really going to reduce Sawyer's behavior to "sulking?" He just lost the woman that he loves - the woman he has spent the last 3 years of his life with. I think he was doing a bit more than sulking.

I suppose you have a point. It is probably the most realistic reaction. Still, after a couple of seasons of developing to the point where Sawyer could actual have a mutual relationship with human beings I'm not enjoying re-visiting the loner Sawyer who seems to despise all and trust none. We'll see how it goes. I just found the behavior of the characters too similar to early seasons for my taste.


"It is scandalous for Christians to have an imagination starved for God." - Mark Filiatreau

I write occasionally at Unfamiliar Stars.

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I just found the behavior of the characters too similar to early seasons for my taste.

I suspect this is a bit intentional. The torture scene was very remniscent of the season 1 sequence when Sayid was tortured by Rosseu.


"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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Unfortunately, so far its replicating the least appealing previous aspects of the show. Our heroes sit in a cage, trapped! They mope! They don't ask clear questions given the knowledge they already possess! They mope some more!

Still, I don't mean to knock it too much--there's enough goodies to keep me around, and I'm clearly invested for the final haul, but am starting to think this peaked with the end of season 3 (is that the one when Jack beats up Ben and makes the call to the helicopter?) and they're petering out the rest of it.

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Unfortunately, so far its replicating the least appealing previous aspects of the show. Our heroes sit in a cage, trapped! They mope! They don't ask clear questions given the knowledge they already possess! They mope some more!

Still, I don't mean to knock it too much--there's enough goodies to keep me around, and I'm clearly invested for the final haul, but am starting to think this peaked with the end of season 3 (is that the one when Jack beats up Ben and makes the call to the helicopter?) and they're petering out the rest of it.

It's just been interesting to me to see some of the reaction...it seems split, and I am a bit surprised that a show that has routinely turned what seems like small or pointless moments/characters into much bigger events down the road and so on...a show that has often starts in a "what the heck is going on" in the beginning of each season...and people start complaining. It's like at the start of each season, some fans reboot and don't remember that the previous season started out "confusing" and even at times had early episodes that felt like filler, only to create a more satisfying story as the season progressed. Of all the seasons, three started out the "sloppiest" and most "confused", and then midway (about the time they announced an end date of 2010) it started to get focused and has felt pretty focused ever since.

But I am seeing people complain about the fact that we are getting new characters introduced-like Jacob(?!). Or that Smokey turns out to be a conscious agent (oddly, something that seems to have been established seasons ago, and people are acting like Smokey posing as a person is some sort of new developement). Maybe they show will end with a whimper, but geez, have the Lost team not earned any benefit of the doubt here? Instead of declaring it off the rails (as I have seen said on other sites) a mere two episodes in... maybe we could give it more of a chance? :)


"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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I'm suggesting that one can only go back to the well so many times.

This is the last time they will go back to the well. Until someone remakes the show for the SyFy network in 15-20 years. ;)


"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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Unfortunately, so far its replicating the least appealing previous aspects of the show. Our heroes sit in a cage, trapped! They mope! They don't ask clear questions given the knowledge they already possess! They mope some more!

Still, I don't mean to knock it too much--there's enough goodies to keep me around, and I'm clearly invested for the final haul, but am starting to think this peaked with the end of season 3 (is that the one when Jack beats up Ben and makes the call to the helicopter?) and they're petering out the rest of it.

It's just been interesting to me to see some of the reaction...it seems split, and I am a bit surprised that a show that has routinely turned what seems like small or pointless moments/characters into much bigger events down the road and so on...a show that has often starts in a "what the heck is going on" in the beginning of each season...and people start complaining. It's like at the start of each season, some fans reboot and don't remember that the previous season started out "confusing" and even at times had early episodes that felt like filler, only to create a more satisfying story as the season progressed. Of all the seasons, three started out the "sloppiest" and most "confused", and then midway (about the time they announced an end date of 2010) it started to get focused and has felt pretty focused ever since.

But I am seeing people complain about the fact that we are getting new characters introduced-like Jacob(?!). Or that Smokey turns out to be a conscious agent (oddly, something that seems to have been established seasons ago, and people are acting like Smokey posing as a person is some sort of new developement). Maybe they show will end with a whimper, but geez, have the Lost team not earned any benefit of the doubt here? Instead of declaring it off the rails (as I have seen said on other sites) a mere two episodes in... maybe we could give it more of a chance? :)

Can I "high five" this post? I agree completely. They have earned my trust. It's as simple as that. Every season has had a few episodes that seemed lacking or unfocused, but they always made more sense by seasons end. I have no reason to believe this season will be any different.


"The greatest meat of all. The meat of friendship and fatherhood."

The Blue Raft - Are you ready to ride?

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What Nezpop said.


"I feel a nostalgia for an age yet to come..."
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They've earned my trust too, which is one of the reasons why I'm trying hard to like these episodes. I've always managed to not ask questions with this show; my suspension of disbelief is infinitely high for Lost, and even when they were in the season 3 rut I stuck around with a smile on my face.

The post-Juliet Sawyer (and Sawyer/Kate dynamic) took a while sink in, but it does make a lot of sense. I just felt like the past few episodes were boring, for some reason. And I still stick to my 'bad writing' sentiment. I keep thinking back to the rapport Miles and Hugo had last season and how tight it was... sigh. There's still some good stuff, but to see most of the characters grunt off action-movie one-liners is just depressing. And bizarro-world Claire, trusting a gun-toting fugitive after she returns her stuffed dolphin? Awesome.

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And bizarro-world Claire, trusting a gun-toting fugitive after she returns her stuffed dolphin? Awesome.

Claire was never the brightest bulb. Her baby's father had "loser" written all over him before he ran out on her. ;)

Edited by Nezpop

"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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That said, I think the idea that Jacob and Smokey/Flocke are picking teams is really intriguing, and I guess it does stem all the way back to all of the black/white motifs early on in the show. So, team Bad Guy: Flocke, zombie Sayid and Rousseau 2.0/Markswoman Claire?

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I am also liking that Hurley is becoming increasingly heroic. I have liked his character arc the best out of all of them.

And chalk up Desmond for Team Jacob?

And I have forgotten what happened to Faraday. Is he just dead now?


"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

Filmwell | Twitter

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I'm starting to get the suspicion that Jacob might be the real antagonist, and that Smocke may be the good guy.

Or it could just be the spicy italian $5 footlong talking.

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And I have forgotten what happened to Faraday. Is he just dead now?

I think there was an earlier post that speculated the possibility that once Juliet set off the bomb in 1977, several people would cease to exist. Of course, we haven't been shown yet what the bomb does to those whose only existing timeline was 1977 (Charles Widmore, Faraday's mother. etc). We've only been show what has happened to people who were living outside of their own timeline. The earlier post speculated that if Widmore was killed in the bomb blast, then Penny would no longer exist, having not yet been born - same could be said for Faraday, if his mother was also killed in the blast. But, as I say, we've only been shown what happens to the Oceanic folks who were living outside their own timeline. Their may yet be some surprises as to what has happened to Dharma folk of 1977.

edit: Thinking about this makes your head spin... a problem to the above theory is that Miles still exists in the 2007 timeline. But I can't remember if he had been born on the island and sent away, or if he was supposed to have been born off-island. Same could be said of Penny.

Another thing I'm having trouble remembering - when Faraday's mother killed Daniel, was she pregnant at the time? And if so, who was the father? Widmore? Could there be another unknown siblings subplot involving Faraday and Penny, like Jack and Claire?

Edited by Baal_T'shuvah

Formerly Baal_T'shuvah

"Everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. You just can't let the world judge you too much." - Maude 
Harold and Maude
 

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I'm starting to get the suspicion that Jacob might be the real antagonist, and that Smocke may be the good guy.

Or it could just be the spicy italian $5 footlong talking.

That is the wager in our house as well. It is too pat to just ride out the season as is. I can imagine any writer sitting at the conference table saying: Okay! Let's flip it! That will make it interesting!. Unless they think that we are thinking they are going to do that, in which case they will surprise us by not flipping it.

Has the smoke monster ever killed a demonstrably "good" person? Is Smocke's rebuke of Ben an indication that he is indeed on the side of "good"? What has Jacob ever done to demonstrate that he is "good" while smoke monster is "bad"?

It dawned on me in class the other night while going through different general theodicies that we may even be imposing this "good" vs. "bad" distinction on the storyline because that is a natural default. There may be a simple dualism going on in which Smocke and Jacob represent forces that need to be in balance in order for the Island to work properly. They are neither good nor bad. That would be a shocker.

Edited by MLeary

"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

Filmwell | Twitter

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He totally blew his parallel existence!


"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

Filmwell | Twitter

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Another thing I'm having trouble remembering - when Faraday's mother killed Daniel, was she pregnant at the time? And if so, who was the father? Widmore? Could there be another unknown siblings subplot involving Faraday and Penny, like Jack and Claire?

Yes. In the "true" timeline, Faraday was killed when his mother shot him and she was pregnant with him at that time. At some point she leaves the island and raises Faraday off the island, returning him to the island via Widmore's boat. In the alternate timeline...the H-Bomb-if it sunk the island- Took Faraday and his mother with it.

Man... Lost could do a cool (and by cool, I mean lame) spin off:

People on a time travelling island zip through time righting wrongs!

"Time to kill Hitler, lardo."

Edited by Nezpop

"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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Re: the question of whether Smocke ever killed a good person -- didn't Smokey kill Mr. Echo (Eco? Eko?)?

I remember at the time being unclear about why he was killed.

Well, he killed the pilot in Season one...


"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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So, interestingly, without the Island... Locke has a better life...he is not embittered towards his father (in fact, it appears they have a good relationship) and he is able to be honest and open with the woman he loves. Yeah, his boss was still a jerk, but Good Luck Hugo saves the day and Rose (wonderful Rose) steps in and gives him hind insight. Seeing where former Dharma/Others are popping up is really intriguing.

Also, it seems that the numbers that were being repeated over and over were not coordinates-they corresponded to the passengers from Flight 815. Also interesting, the implication that they were all candidates for the "position" of Jacob.


"You know...not EVERY story has to be interesting." -Gibby

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It does appear as if Lockes life is better without the plane crashing, however he does lack faith in this new life.


"I am quietly judging you" - Magnolia

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It seems like last night's episode started to set up a parallel between Jacob waiting for a candidate (to replace him? so he can retire?) and the years Desmond spent waiting for someone to replace him at the hatch.

EDIT: Post #1000 in the thread! Do I get a prize?

Edited by tyler1984

It's the side effects that save us.
--The National, "Graceless"
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