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Brent_Dude33

Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith

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Hey Dudes and Dudets,

I cant wait for Ep3 I think its going to be a great finish to one of the greatest movie series. Most people i know are trashing this movie allready because the lack of acting and tallent in Ep2 which is one awesome movie. Well i'm tired of people trashing Star Wars so i want to know what you guys and gals think of the upcoming Star Wars Movie. Trash the movie or love the movie. I know i cant wait and i'm loving all the Ep3 stuff allready.Also if you could say if its going to be a smash or crash.

Thanks 8)

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Episode 2 was like LOTR:The Two Towers in so far as it was a way to get from point A to point C. Although actually it's trying to get to point D, because it has to set up Episode 3 to connect to the original Star Wars.

Overall, I've been disappointed in the 1-3 trilogy to this point. 6+ hours of backstory to set up the original movie is just too much -- and not needed. The story was meant to pick up in the middle. And it was meant to be open ended, and episode 6 seemed to tie things together too well. I think the real problem with the series overall is that it overinflated itself with its success. The Force became a force unto itself.

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Yes i would have to agree with you on that the new 3 have teken awhile. I never looked at it like LOTR:TTT. You can almost conect the two together in that yea they really try to get from one point to another. But still i really enjoyed Episode 2 i was happy with the story line and the special effects. I was really happy with the arena battle. I think in my head i try to back star wars so much because it has become so much more than just movies. It really bugs me when people trash it but all are entitled to oppinions thats whats great about movies like Ep2 and the other 2. They make for great discussions. Thanks for the reply. You had good points.

Still want to here more oppinions tho. Sound off about any star wars topic if you want.

Thanks 8)

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Anders   

Hey dude. So, for your first topic you're tackling Star Wars? Well, I think you're gonna find very mixed reactions on here. You've got people like me and SDG who think that Attack of the Clones was a worthy entry in the series, you've got the Star Wars fans like Jeffrey, who liked AOTC but didn't quite feel it was a masterpiece, and then you have those like Peter who seem to treat anything post-ESB as some kind of inferior product.

As your cousin, and the person who sort of got you into Star Wars, you know my position. BRING ON EPISODE III! biggrin.gif

But you're gonna find that this is a hot topic and bound to bring up nasty wars around here.

Check out this thread to get an idea of what you're in for:

http://willcox.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=135

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Haha Hey Cous,

Yea i thought Star Wars would get some heat in here. Yep yep Bring it on i cant wait. Stay tuned in on this forum it could get really sweet you and me know where we stand. Go Star Wars and Indiana Jones on DvD.

Thanks 8)

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For me, Star Wars is a whole lotta fun, with one movie that stands head and shoulders above the rest: The Empire Strikes Back. I have issues with the writing and the acting in all of the other films.

I cut A New Hope some slack because it was the first and broke so much ground.

And I very much admire Lucas's story arc for the entire epic.

But as a developer of distinct characters, he's not very good. And he's one of the worst directors for working with actors that I've ever seen. (Still, I give the cast some credit for finding some good moments considering their lack of guidance.)

I love the films for their mythology, their visual splendour, and their enthralling sounds. They are sentimental favorites, and only mediocre when it comes to artfulness.

Do I love them? Yes. Do I enjoy the new trilogy? Very much, especially Ep. 2. Am I looking forward to Ep. 3? Very much. I feel like that's the movie he's wanted to make since Return of the Jedi came out, and that Episodes 1 and 2 were all just prologue for what we are about to see.

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Persona   

Brent-Dude,

For some reason i have your voice in my head. This has never happened before with anyone else around here unless i already knew them. It's very strange actually, and i can't place the character, but i think it may be one of the muppets with a low husky surfer style voice. Maybe it's just because the word "dude" was tacked on to your online name. It's rather frightening though. Everytime you type something i get a little freaked.

For what it's worth, i loved the first three Star Wars when i was a kid... And i was OK with Phantom Menace for fun... But Attack of the Clones just had too much CGI. I miss real people that physically move in real time, and whatever happened to the stuntman?? Has he been replaced by the computer nerd??

Anyway, i don't care if it flies or fries, i'm pretty apathetic either way. I'll go, but it's more out of obligation than anything else. I feel the same way about the third Matrix film, can't remember what it's supposed to be called.

-s.

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I feel the same way about the third Matrix film, can't remember what it's supposed to be called.

See, I'm completely apathetic about Matrix because it never captured my imagination or made me care about any of its characters the way Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back did. So I don't have that sense of "it fell short" the way I do with some of the Star Wars films, because it has not yet proven itself to me.

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Anders   

See, I'm completely apathetic about Matrix because it never captured my imagination or made me care about any of its characters the way Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back did. So I don't have that sense of "it fell short" the way I do with some of the Star Wars films, because it has not yet proven itself to me.

Exactly! That's why I don't really view Reloaded with that much dislike. It's difficult to really feel betrayed by something that you never really cared much for in the first place. Although, I must say Reloaded made me appreciate the first Matrix more.

Oh no! Now I've gone and done the one thing that bugs me so much: people comparing Star Wars and Matrix. Seriously, I guess it's that way for some people, but for me the whole Matrix thing doesn't even approach the way I feel about Star Wars. Lord of the Rings on the other hand...

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but for me the whole Matrix thing doesn't even approach the way I feel about Star Wars. Lord of the Rings on the other hand...

Yes i must agree with you Anders. The matrix does not even come close to the feel of the likes of Star Wars and LOTR. Yes i do like the matrix but i dont really feel much for the characters although i really do like Neo its more less that he is a good fighter and has a sweet personality was a geek but now is super cool.

LOTR has such a cool feel when i watch the Fellowship of the ring when you see the Shire it feels real almost like you could be there the matrix is so far out there that its not touchable so to say. Peter Jackson did a splendid job on the filming aspect. Bravo Jackson.

Star Wars kind of has that prob i feel sometimes. That you cant almost feel and touch the place and you cant feel emotion all that much for the characters. (This is excluding the First 3) I wont touch those in here :?

Mr. Lucas does have trouble with characters yes and to much cgi can be a bad thing. Like when Anakin is on the speeder going to the Sandpeoples camp ohmy.gif man if that wasnt cgi lol. Thats one thing i like better in Ep 1 rather than Ep2 is some of the acting and some of the cgi. I really liked the big scenes tho like the arena and the huge battle after words thats what made the movie for me. Also some of the locations like Kamino thought was pretty cool.

Well i cant wait tell Ep3 I think its going to be an amazing movie i also cant wait for Return of the king as well and Revolution i think is what the 3rd matrix is called. Lets all just sit back and enjoy 3 cool movies 2 of them coming this year.

Thanks and keep the posts coming 8)

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MattPage   

Well Ep3 will be a hit financially - that much is guaranteed. Even if its the worst movie ever, people just want to see what happened. But I don't hold out much hope for it being a good movie. I love the first three, I only saw the first one again on sunday and I still like that. ESB I need to re-see cos it least intereste me as a kid, but now everyone says its amazing so I will have to see. RotJ was great as a kid (one of my first memories of the cinema), but I suspect its not actually as amazing as I think. Regardless IO love them. Phanton menace was a disaapointment. I'd been waiting 15 years for that film to come out, and I was sooooooo excited whan i was sat in the cinema waiting for the trailerts to end. But it was a disappointment, softened only by the lousy reviews I had already heard. and Ep2 for me was very poor, EWan McGregor had one great line & that was about it.

So yeah would love Ep3 to be good, but I'm expecting it to be a turkey, and I expect M3 to be better (and RotK the best of all, altho' I'm not convinced)

Matt

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Persona   

Oh my word! laugh.gif

It's the bus driver from the Simpsons!! Leary, you didn't nail it but your Simpsons reference reminded me of who it actually was!

Brent in my head sounds like Bart's bus driver that always calls him "Bart-dude."

-s.

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Persona   

Yep! biggrin.gif

-s.

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Links to the threads on Episode I, Episode II, Episode IV, Episode V, the 2004 and 2006 editions of Episodes IV, V and VI on DVD, and the 2011 edition of all six episodes on Blu-Ray, as well as The Clone Wars and the various rumoured TV series (plus one quasi-duplicate thread on the comedy series).

See also the threads on 'Star Wars Debate Redux' (which began as a place to bash Episode II; Jul 8 - Nov 11, 2003), 'Sci fi = spiritual? Star Wars, X2, etc.' (Apr 12-14, 2004), 'Best Star Wars Movie? (with poll; Apr 18-20, 2004), Top 100 Discussion: The Star Wars original trilogy?' (May 6-7, 2004), 'Is Star Wars Blasphemous?' (Jun 15 - Jul 25, 2005), 'Star Wars in 20 minutes' (Aug 8-9, 2006) and 'Star Wars: Uncut' (Apr 2010).

Anders wrote:

: . . . and then you have those like Peter who seem to treat anything

: post-ESB as some kind of inferior product.

Just givin' 'em what they deserve, bro. :)

: But you're gonna find that this is a hot topic and bound to bring up nasty

: wars around here.

True. Indeed, as I recall, the only thing that got passions inflamed on the old board more than the Iraq discussion was the Attack of the Clones discussion -- in that case, an entire thread had to be erased, as I recall. So this is obviously something that some people take VERY seriously.

My own take on this whole thing? I loved the original trilogy when I was growing up (Episode IV came out when I was 6 and taking Grade 1 by correspondence in Poland, Episode VI when I was 12 and in Grade 8 ), and I still love The Empire Strikes Back enough to include it in my all-time top five. (Is it just a coincidence that Episode V was the one installment of the film that Lucas had the least direct personal control over? You be the judge.) But seeing the 'special editions' of the original trilogy in 1997 convinced me of a few things: (1) Episode IV would be nothing more than a cute bit of 1970s nostalgia if it hadn't been for the other films, (2) I had no urge to see Episode VI again, and (3) the prequels were in trouble. I thought the changes Lucas made to the original trilogy did not bode well at all for the prequels, and Episodes I and II have proved me right.

Perhaps the most disappointing thing about the prequels is that they have exposed just how incoherent Lucas's own philosophy is. He keeps saying that he's making these films to give children a "myth" of some sort, to teach them moral values, etc., but what exactly ARE the values that his films supposedly espouse? (For more on this, see my review of Episode II.) I think we may have to resign ourselves to the fact that Lucas is ultimately interested in little more than selling toys and making eye candy; certainly there aren't many other levels on which we can appreciate these newest films.

As for The Matrix, I loved the first film on the strength of its pastiche style and its ideas, not the characters. And it is on that basis that I found Matrix Reloaded underwhelming.

Edited by Peter T Chattaway

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HJRoho   

Overreach. Way out of control.

I think Lucas took himself way too seriously for the prequels. Eps 4-6 are great because they're fun. Ep 4 is not a great movie, but it's a fun movie. I still love it, after all the times I've seen it. The idea that Eps 4-6 touch myth and archetypes blah blah blah are true, but an afterthought. In between the series, he got caught up in what everyone was saying about the power of myth and lost his way.

He needed (probably still needs) someone to tell him No! and slap his hand. No George! Someone has to edit your scripts. No George! Let someone else direct - someone who can work with actors. No George! Stop using so much CGI. No George! No romantic scenes - ever! No George! No Jar-Jar, already. Slap, slap, slap.

And he needs someone to just shoot Hayden Christensen. Put him and all of us out of our misery. Ep 2 had its problems, but he made it irredeemable. (Isn't that right, m'lady.) There is a bootleg cut of Ep 1 that cuts out Jar-Jar. I'd like to see one of Ep 2 that cuts out Christensen.

But despite all that, nothing will keep me away from Ep 3. Even if the word is that it's awful, I'll just go to a cheap show and have a good cry. But even so, I'm sure there will still be some sequences that be a good Wow. I think it'll make money, but if it's not good it'll take a dive after a couple weeks. Success is not guaranteed.

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And he needs someone to just shoot Hayden Christensen. Put him and all of us out of our misery. Ep 2 had its problems, but he made it irredeemable.

Just registering my disagreement. I think Christensen was convincing as the whiny teen that became the melodramatic Darth Vader. He just wasn't directed well, or given good lines.

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I'll second Jeff's defense of Christensen. I saw him in Life as a House before Episode II came out, and when I did a guest stint on a radio show shortly after, I said that Christensen (a former Vancouverite, dontchaknow) had done us proud and that, if his performance in the next Star Wars film wasn't any good, it would be the director's fault, not his.

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Anders   

No George! No Jar-Jar, already.

I dont' know, I kinda liked Jar-Jar. :oops:

[Wincing and preparing for the oncoming backlash]

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I wasn't too put off by Jar-Jar. He didn't seem nearly as bad as everything I'd read made him out to be. Of course, I've never had any particular sentimental attachment or love for any of the Star Wars films either, so I don't ever think my opinions about them are much heeded. tongue.gif

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Hey Dudes and Dudets,

Haha high five Anders for Jar-Jar Binks. I never really thought much of Jar-Jar and thats what i think is cool about him he's just there. Yes they prob could have cut him but w/e could have a descent role in Ep3 with the Gungans cause something is going to happen to them. I must agree with Jeff and peter on the Christensen thing. I really liked him in Ep2 but i looked at him as more of a dark'n character. Yea he did have some bad lines and acting wasnt really on par more of a Bogey.

Man the worst part about another star wars movie is the damn action figures. Every movie i get sucked into buying all the figures and i mean all of them. Haha and the comics and the books man i must not fall for marketing this time lol.

Lets see i just had a Star Wars movie night about a week ago with me and bunch of freinds.We watched all of the old movies and the 2 new ones. We started out with Ep1 and so forth. I got to say that i still really enjoy A New Hope, something about it prob because it was the movie that started my movie watching back when i was 4. ROTJ is really cool as well has cool scenes i really like the Jabba's Palace stuff and the Duel at the end is awesome i'm huge Luke Skywalker fan so that fight is king of the fights. Plus its not flashy like Ep1 fight between Maul and Obi-Wan plus the Empors laugh is pretty funny. Yep then there is Empire Strikes Back Really good movie i must say i cant get enough of cloud city and the hole carbon freezing scence and just all that stuff.

So all in all 4-6 are still the better of the 5. There is just so many memberable scenes and thats what i think makes them so good plus with the help of Han Solo you got your witty lines and Threepio helps to hell even R2-D2 helps with the diologue. I cant really think of many cool lines in the new movies hmmm not to many besides Mace Windus "This party's over" i like that because its Sam Jackson tho lol. Come on lines like "Scruffy looking nerf hurder" "Who scruffy looking?" lol those lines are great.

Well thanks for the time guys. Hey if you want to tell about your fav scene in any of the star wars movies go ahead i think we all like different scenes would be intresting to see what one scene is more popular. Dont forget lines whats your fav line?

Thanks 8)

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More on-topic for this board (Art and Faith, remember. Let's try to avoid filling threads with mere fanboy stuff):

Do you have any hopes for where Lucas will take the story in Episode 3? I'm not talking about trivia... I'm talking about themes.

What ethical questions does he need to clear up?

There has been a lot of confusion through the series about the value of "trusting your feelings" and "acting on impulse", and yet at the same time, Obi-Wan is furious with Luke when he acts impulsively, and Anakin's fall will probably come about because he acts on "instinct."

What are the great works of film and literature about "falling to the Dark Side"? Is Anakin a Macbeth? An Othello? Do you think Lucas is trying to develop more sympathy for the devil, and that we will end up having more compassion for Darth Vader? Or do you think there will be a clear line when Anakin "sins" and gives himself over?

Was Anakin being noble to defy the Jedi Order and proceed with his marriage? Or was he just being an adolescent rebel jerk? If the latter, than isn't Amidala partially responsible for Anakin's fall?

And what about Yoda? Has he taken a step toward the Dark Side by embracing the clone army? Doesn't he bear some of the burden for the collapse of the Jedi Council and, thus, the Republic then?

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Guest Russell Lucas   
Guest Russell Lucas

Given how complicit Obi-Wan and Yoda (and Qui-Gon before them) become in so much miscalculation and willful ignorance, I have to imagine that some sort of complicity in Anakin's downfall has to be assigned them in Part Three. Sure, most of the missteps occur as a result of trying to cover up or atone for things that go poorly-- they don't scheme for evil purposes the way that Palpatine does-- but the end result should explain with some persuasiveness how Obi-Wan could so baldly lie to Luke in their first encounter in Ben's hut.

I'm sure there will be some moral equivalence in there and perhaps some treatment of how non-vigilant moral good is trumped by weaker but more active moral evil. I'm looking for a persuasive Faustian bargain to be hoisted on Anakin-- he's already got fantastic and uncommon power and love, so there must be something very (on the surface) compelling to justify the chain of circumstances that set in place his apparent heart-hardening. I enjoy the angle of the Clones initially being a force of apparent good.

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Brent, don't take this the wrong way, but how old are you?

Jeffrey Overstreet wrote:

: Let's try to avoid filling threads with mere fanboy stuff . . .

Hear, hear. Though I guess this applies to Lord of the Rings too, huh?

: Do you have any hopes for where Lucas will take the story in Episode 3?

: I'm not talking about trivia... I'm talking about themes.

Not really -- as I explain in the review to which I linked earlier, the prequels have basically exposed that Lucas has no real coherent philosophy.

: What ethical questions does he need to clear up?

Why "attachments" are so bad if it is "attachments" that allowed Luke and Vader to fulfill the prophecy in the end, for starters. Or is it only the Jedi Order's prohibition against "attachments" that is the problem? The way Lucas speaks, you would think that Anakin's "attachment" to his mother and to Amidala really WERE a problem.

: There has been a lot of confusion through the series about the value of

: "trusting your feelings" and "acting on impulse", and yet at the same

: time, Obi-Wan is furious with Luke when he acts impulsively, and

: Anakin's fall will probably come about because he acts on "instinct."

It's looking more and more like the real villains of this series -- the ones who embody the banality of evil, as it were -- are Yoda and Obi-Wan. It is they who preach about the evils of fear etc. while at the same time basing their own decisions on their own fears, it is they who expect others like Qui-Gon Jinn and Anakin Skywalker to kowtow to the authority of the Jedi Council when the Force seems to be pointing another way, it is they who lie to cover up their weaknesses and mistakes (and while pontificating on how deceit is of the Dark Side, to boot), it is they who fail to learn from their mistakes, and it is they who, through their lack of "attachment", write off Anakin as a lost cause and argue -- even after they are dead! -- that the best way to right all the wrongs for which they are responsible is to say, "Screw the prophecy -- our former pupil Anakin is a stain on our record, so let's just convince Luke that the only way to defeat the Emperor is for him to kill his father!"

The most ironic thing about all this, of course, is that ultimately the Jedi prophecy and the fate of Anakin's soul are utterly irrelevant to the question of whether or not the balance in the Force will ever be restored. I believe Lucas has said, for the record, that the prophecy IS fulfilled when Anakin kills the Emperor in Episode VI -- but who cares? The Rebels were mere minutes away from blowing up the Death Star, and the Emperor with it, anyway!

: Do you think Lucas is trying to develop more sympathy for the devil, and

: that we will end up having more compassion for Darth Vader?

I think this has clearly been on the agenda ever since Episode VI -- in which, you will notice, Vader never does anything all THAT evil, at least not when compared to his actions in Episodes IV and V. The real "conversion", if that's the word, seems to have occurred BETWEEN movies, and not so much within the final movie itself.

: And what about Yoda? Has he taken a step toward the Dark Side by

: embracing the clone army? Doesn't he bear some of the burden for the

: collapse of the Jedi Council and, thus, the Republic then?

Absolutely. And the way it stands right now, Yoda never, ever, ever repents of this before his death.

Russell Lucas wrote:

: Given how complicit Obi-Wan and Yoda (and Qui-Gon before them)

: become in so much miscalculation and willful ignorance . . .

Are you so sure that Qui-Gon is one of the bad guys here? Granted, there are some interesting references to him in Episode II that suggest we still have a bit to learn about his place in all of this.

: I have to imagine that some sort of complicity in Anakin's downfall has to

: be assigned them in Part Three. Sure, most of the missteps occur as a

: result of trying to cover up or atone for things that go poorly-- they don't

: scheme for evil purposes the way that Palpatine does-- but the end result

: should explain with some persuasiveness how Obi-Wan could so baldly

: lie to Luke in their first encounter in Ben's hut.

[ nod ]

: I enjoy the angle of the Clones initially being a force of apparent good.

I also. Though I DON'T like the way the prequels have moved the series away from a muddled spiritual sensibility to a muddled political sensibility. The contortions of Palpatine's plot to take over the Republic suggest to me that Lucas doesn't have a clue how politics actually works. The story was much better when it was about mythic archetypes -- boys who want to leave the farm and go off and become heroes, etc.

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