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Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (2005)


Darryl A. Armstrong
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That is one *scary* poster. And since when was Wonka meant to be channeling Marilyn Manson?

Phil.

"We live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel

"We don't do perms!" - Trevor and Simon

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That is one *scary* poster. And since when was Wonka meant to be channeling Marilyn Manson?

Phil.

eek.gif Depp looks like a little girl in Goth drag. I love Depp and Burton, but the original holds such a sentimental spot in my heart that I have deep (or depp?) reservations about the remake.

"The most important thing is that people love in the same way. Whether they are monarchists, republicans, or communists, they feel pain in the same way, as well as hatred, jealousy, fear, and fear of death. Whether you are a deeply religious man or an atheist, if you have a toothache, it hurts just the same." - Krzysztof Kieslowski

"...it seems to me that most people I encounter aren't all that interested in the arts. Most of the people who are my age ... appear to be interested in golf, fertilizer, and early retirement schemes.... I will stop caring passionately about music, books, and films on the day that I die, and I'm hoping for Top 100 album polls in the afterlife." - Andy Whitman

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I just can't imagine anyone but Wilder playing the part. He wasn't the Willy Wonka of the book, but he was a very *disturbing* character -- but charming at the same time. Of all people, Depp could pull off the acting, but I can't picture him doing that sort of blank, nonthreatening stare Wilder did as he would say "no, wait, stop" in a voice that showed you how little he actually cared about what happened to the children.

What a great character. And it wall all pulled off in a way that made me, a young impressionable lad, trust him completely and LIKE him so much that I felt betrayed when it looked like he was going to screw over Charlie at the end.

Yep. I think this is probably one of those movies where I was so fond of the character and the way the actor played him, I don't think I'd ever be happy with the remake. Sort of like if Star Wars was remade and someone other than Harrison Ford played Han Solo.

Er, well, OK... not that bad.

It had a face like Robert Tilton's -- without the horns.

- Steve Taylor, "Cash Cow"

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As a big fan of the book, and someone who feels little attachment to the original film - and in fact thinks it's not very good, other than Wilder who is admittedly brilliant - I'm looking very much forward to this new film version. I also think that Burton might be good at that dark, yet whimsical Dahlian feel.

I like the poster. And before I had even seen the poster, that was what I suspected Jeffrey's avatar was.

"A director must live with the fact that his work will be called to judgment by someone who has never seen a film of Murnau's." - François Truffaut

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Not keen on the poster for a few reasons. Firstly, the whole story comes about cos Wonka is meant ot be retiring. You don't get to see Wonkas face in the poster, but unless he dies his hair he looks like he's in his early thirties - not quite ready for retirement yet you'd hope.

Secondly the book is much more about Charlie than it is about Wonka IIRC, and the film is called Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (opposed to the earlier film which was at least up front enough to be called Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory.

But I'm more roptimistic about the film. Gene wilder played a character well, but I dont think that character was really Dahl's Wonka & i remember as a kid feeling let down by the changes to the book.

Matt

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New stills including a much better look at Johnny as Wonka avaliable here:

http://elfman.filmmusic.com/forum/read.php...341,16341#16341

*Much* happier with these than the poster. I share Matt's concerns about the aging down of Wonka, but Depp looks really spiffy in that hat. Which leads me to wonder: which bozo decided to make the teaser poster look like *that*?

Phil.

Edited by Shantih

"We live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel

"We don't do perms!" - Trevor and Simon

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huh.gif

I know it is the trend these days to make remakes of old classics. Sometimes its a way to put a fresh spin on an old idea. Other times it is a way to introduce old films to jaded audiences who don't even realize their video store has non-"New Release" shelves.

However, "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" is one film that I cannot fathom why someone would want to remake. I just recently watched it with my 7 year-old and she loved it. I was struck again by not only how off-kilter funny it is, but also how timeless it is. In other words, it is still just as watchable today as twenty-five years ago when I first saw it. (Okay, I could do without the musical number "Cheer Up Charlie" -- but a single blemish on an otherwise great film.)

As pictures such as these start to come out I can only say I'm even more disturbed. Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of Johnny Depp. If anybody can pull off Wonka it would be him. But, just look at him! He doesn't look whismical and slightly dangerous -- he just looks scary! And I agree with you, Matt, he does look like a girl.

I cannot understand what possessed anyone to make this movie, unless they're trying to cash in on the Harry Potter craze: "We've gotta come up with a magical movie about a British boy."

Okay, rant over. smile.gif

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Only just now reading this thread, as I hadn't seen the original flick before. How interesting that folks had reservations about the scene in the study: that, plus the final scene, were chosen by one participant at that playwriting symposium I attended as their Best Ending! Never having read the book, I knew nothing of their apparent infidelity, and thought they were great. So what elements of the study scene depart from the novel?

Ron

P.S. What the heck, here's my Wonka-weird write-up;

WILLY WONKA AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY (USA, 1971)

You stole Fizzy Lifting Drinks!.You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose!

Psychedelic kid-flick is acerbic and plenty eccentric, true to its Roald Dahl origins: uber-brats Veruca Salt and Augustus Gloop are deliciously sour little twists, and Gene Wilder is a howl, especially in the mean and manic home stretch. But the sudden surprises of the film's ending transform it into a surprisingly touching parable of culpability, relinquishment and restoration: contrast Grandpa Joe's perfectly understandable response with that of childlike Charlie, and think on Mark 10:15. "For of such is the kingdom of heaven," indeed!

I've posted a couple hundred of my Soul Food Movies write-ups at letterboxd

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Full Script

Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory as Judeo-Christian Allegory

Can't remember whether the Lemndae incident has a parallel in the book (I don't think it has) and hence IIRC there's no need for that scene where he looks like he's kicking them out.

Matt

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So what elements of the study scene depart from the novel?

All of them. In the novel, Charlie never commits the transgression of stealing Fizzy Lifting Drinks, and "Slugworth" never shows up to tempt him into stealing a Gobstopper. So the study scene couldn't happen in the novel: the instruments of sin and redemption just aren't there. Charlie inherits the factory purely by virtue of being the only kid who doesn't screw up.

Which would lead to the conclusion that the film is much more of a Christian allegory than the book. In fact, the book is more like a Buddhist allegory: Charlie lives a life of poverty, and achieves nirvana by keeping himself free of desires

Edited by mrmando

Let's Carl the whole thing Orff!

Do you know the deep dark secret of the avatars?

It's big. It's fat. It's Greek.

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Yeah, liking the Buddhist reading. Dahl is very much a writer who believes in giving each character exactly what they deserve, and often in the most ironic way possible.

I get the feeling that one of the reasons for the adaptation changes in the Gene Wilder version was that it was thought the wonders of the factory are specific temptations for each character and, therefore, unless Charlie gets his own temptation that he can resist it's not really fair and he's hardly a hero. But, because of his destitution, I think it can be argued quite fairly that *all* the factory's wonders are a temptation for him. (He may be too poor to know better but it's well established in the book that he does have a weakness for chocolate)

Phil.

"We live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel

"We don't do perms!" - Trevor and Simon

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Nobody bit on my trivia question.

Nonetheless, here's the answer:

Peter Ostrom (Charlie) is a veterinarian.

The actress who played Veruca is still an actress.

The other three work in financial services. Augustus and Violet are both accountants, and Mike is a broker.

Let's Carl the whole thing Orff!

Do you know the deep dark secret of the avatars?

It's big. It's fat. It's Greek.

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What is it about Burton's films that you don't like?

Let's see. Not all of Burton's films, surely ... Nightmare Before Xmas, Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Batman 1 are all delightful films.

How 'bout my favorite Burton - Pee Wee's Big Adventure?

Cool trivia, by the way.

"The most important thing is that people love in the same way. Whether they are monarchists, republicans, or communists, they feel pain in the same way, as well as hatred, jealousy, fear, and fear of death. Whether you are a deeply religious man or an atheist, if you have a toothache, it hurts just the same." - Krzysztof Kieslowski

"...it seems to me that most people I encounter aren't all that interested in the arts. Most of the people who are my age ... appear to be interested in golf, fertilizer, and early retirement schemes.... I will stop caring passionately about music, books, and films on the day that I die, and I'm hoping for Top 100 album polls in the afterlife." - Andy Whitman

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The book Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was an all time favorite of mine as a child. I remember watching the movie and being completely devestated by the interpretation of Willy Wonka. From that point on I wished somebody would make a movie more like the book. And when I first heard that Burton and Depp were again going to partner and do this book I could not be happier. However, I am guilty of my childhood experiences causing me to be very biased.

I have seen the movie since that tragic day of childhood scarring and I do see more redeeming factors to it.

One in particular is the love that Charlie has for his grandfather. This was something I missed as a second grader. The reason why he takes the fizzy lifting drink is because his grandpa was wanting to do so. Charlie loved his grandfather so much that he would rather make his grandpa happy than have an entire factory of fun! Could it be interpreted that it is this love for grandfather and people that convinces Willy Wonka to give the factory to Charlie? Wonka didn't want somebody who necessarily followed rules to the strictest interpretation to take over the factory but rather cared for other people's happiness (which is what Wonka candy is all about).

I think this interpretation does bring about some redemption to the seemingly poor portrayl of Dahl's Wonka by Wilder. However, I do wait with great anticipation to this new portrayl. I do echo the concerns of others on this post that the younger Wonka does give me some reservations. . .but I do remain confident in know that both Burton and Depp love this book and want it to be done well. And I really don't think there could be a better pair to do so!

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So what elements of the study scene depart from the novel?

...the study scene couldn't happen in the novel: the instruments of sin and redemption just aren't there. Charlie inherits the factory purely by virtue of being the only kid who doesn't screw up.

... the book is more like a Buddhist allegory: Charlie lives a life of poverty, and achieves nirvana by keeping himself free of desires

I've posted a couple hundred of my Soul Food Movies write-ups at letterboxd

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  • 4 weeks later...

Trailer is up

My concerns about a too young, too hip Wonka remain but the music is *spot on*

Phil.

"We live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel

"We don't do perms!" - Trevor and Simon

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With all of Dahl's other books, why (re)make this one? Why not make Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator, or Danny the Champion of the World or one of the other stories?

Have you seen the Danny... adaptation starring Jeremy Irons and real-life son? One of my favourite films as a youngster.

Phil.

"We live as if the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel

"We don't do perms!" - Trevor and Simon

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That may have been the scariest trailer I've ever seen. I found it deeply disturbing. And yet...

And yet, somehow, I'm drawn to Depp here.

Good grief! I feel like a moth being drawn to flame!

"It's a dangerous business going out your front door." -- J.R.R. Tolkien
"I want to believe in art-induced epiphanies." -- Josie
"I would never be dismissive of pop entertainment; it's much too serious a matter for that." -- NBooth

"If apologetics could prove God, I would lose all faith in Him." -- Josie

"What if--just what if--the very act of storytelling is itself redemptive? What if gathering up the scraps and fragments of a disordered life and binding them between the pages of a book in all of their fragmentary disorder is itself a gambit against that disorder?" -- NBooth

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  • 2 weeks later...
That may have been the scariest trailer I've ever seen. I found it deeply disturbing. And yet...

And yet, somehow, I'm drawn to Depp here.

Good grief! I feel like a moth being drawn to flame!

Pretty much sums up my feeling about the trailer. I found Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka rather disturbing, too, in a different way.

There is this difference between the growth of some human beings and that of others: in the one case it is a continuous dying, in the other a continuous resurrection. (George MacDonald, The Princess and Curdie)

Isn't narrative structure enough of an ideology for art? (Greg Wright)

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  • 1 month later...
That is one *scary* poster. And since when was Wonka meant to be channeling Marilyn Manson?

Phil.

eek.gif Depp looks like a little girl in Goth drag. I love Depp and Burton, but the original holds such a sentimental spot in my heart that I have deep (or depp?) reservations about the remake.

These are interesting comments. Depp has been known to take celebrity personas as a basis for his character, i.e., Angela Lansbury/Sleepy Hallow, Keith Richards/Pirates and Marilyn Manson for Willy.

Posted 2/5/2005

"but admits his MARILYN MANSON-inspired onscreen performance was terrifying"

...the kind of film criticism we do. We are talking about life, and more than that the possibility of abundant life." -M.Leary

"Dad, how does she move in mysterious ways?"" -- Jude (my 5-year-old, after listening to Mysterious Ways)

[once upon a time known here as asher]

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