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Christian Persecution in America..shhh..don't say Christian

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News: Christian Persecution in America

yahoo.com

October 01, 2003

Source

IT'S THE WINTER SOLSTICE, CHARLIE BROWN!

By Ann Coulter

David Limbaugh's new book, "Persecution: How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity," will make you cry for your country. (But don't pray for your country if you're anywhere near a public school!) Released this week, Limbaugh's copiously researched book documents how the courts, the universities, the media, Hollywood and government institutions react to any mention of Christianity like Superman recoiling from kryptonite, Dracula from sunlight, or Madonna from soap and water. His straight, factual narrative of what is happening in our public schools makes you wonder how much longer America can survive liberalism.

In a public school in St. Louis, a teacher spotted the suspect, fourth-grader Raymond Raines, bowing his head in prayer before lunch. The teacher stormed to Raymond's table, ordered him to stop immediately and sent him to the principal's office. The principal informed the young malefactor that praying was not allowed in school. When Raymond was again caught praying before meals on three separate occasions, he was segregated from other students, ridiculed in front of his classmates, and finally sentenced to a week's detention.

Before snack time in her kindergarten class in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., little Kayla Broadus held hands with two of her classmates and recited this prayer: "God is good, God is great, thank you, God, for my food." The alert teacher pounced on Kayla, severely reprimanded her, and reported her to the school administration. In short order, the principal sent a sternly worded letter to Kayla's parents advising them that Kayla was not allowed to pray in school, aloud or with others.

The school board then issued a triumphant press release crowing about its victory over a kindergartner praying before snack time. Thus was creeping theocracy in Saratoga Springs stopped dead in its tracks! Kayla's mother brought a lawsuit, winning Kayla the right to pray out loud. But she was still prohibited from holding hands with others while she prayed. Hearing the G-word in kindergarten might interfere with the school's efforts to teach proper sexual techniques in the first grade.

Thanks to the vigilance of an alert teacher at Lynn Lucas Middle School outside of Houston, two sisters carrying Bibles were prevented from bringing their vile material into a classroom. The teacher stopped the students at the classroom door and marched them to the principal's office. (Maybe it was just the sight of public school students carrying a book of any kind that set off alarm bells.) The sisters' mother was called and warned that the school intended to report her to Child Protective Services. When the mother arrived, the teacher threw the Bibles in the wastebasket, shouting, "This is garbage!"

In another display of tolerance at Lynn Lucas Middle School, school administrators snatched three students' books with covers displaying the Ten Commandments, ripped the covers off, threw them in the garbage, and told the students that the Ten Commandments constituted "hate speech." (Also, it would be insensitive to expose the Ten Commandments to students who had never been taught to count to 10.)

After the massacre at Columbine High School, students and families were invited to paint tiles above student lockers. The school district had taken all reasonable precautions, immediately deploying an army of secular "grief counselors" with teddy bears to descend on the school after the attack. Nonetheless, some students painted their tiles with "objectionable" messages, such as: "4/20/99: Jesus Wept" and "God Is Love." This would not stand: The school removed 90 tiles with offending religious messages.

A federal court upheld the school's censorship of the religious tiles. Of course, Columbine school officials had earned a measure of deference after having inculcated such a fine sense of morality in their students that two boys could walk into school one day and stage a bloody massacre. You don't argue with a track record like that.

Not all mentions of religion constitute "hate speech." In Tupelo, Miss., school administrators methodically purged all Christmas carols of any religious content -- and then led the children in a chant of: "Celebrate Kwanzaa!" At Pattison Elementary school in Katy, Texas, Christmas songs are banned, but students are threatened with grade reductions for refusing to sing songs celebrating other religious faiths.

In New York City, the chancellor of the Department of Education prohibited the display of Nativity scenes in public schools, while expressly allowing the Jewish menorah and the Islamic star and crescent to be displayed. Some would say that was overkill inasmuch as New York City is already the home of the world's largest public display built in commemoration of Islam: Ground Zero.

Between issuing laws prohibiting discrimination against transgendered individuals and running up a billion deficit, the California Legislature mandated a three-week immersion course in Islam for all seventh-graders. A "crash course" in Islam, you might call it, if that weren't so ironic. Students are required to adopt Muslim names, plan a trip to Mecca, play a jihad game, pray to "Allah, the Compassionate" and to chant "Praise to Allah! Lord of Creation!" They are encouraged to dress in Muslim garb. Students are discouraged, however, from stoning girls at the school dances, abusing their "Jew" math teachers or blowing up their classmates.

A popular student textbook, "Across the Centuries," treats the Inquisition and Salem witch-hunts as typical of Christianity, but never gets around to mentioning the Muslims' conquest of Spain, the Battle of Tours, or the execution of Jews in Qurayza. Or 9/11.

There is no surer proof of Christ's divinity than that he is still so hated some 2000 years after his death. Limbaugh's "Persecution" covers it all in staggering, heartbreaking detail. His methodical description of what is happening in our public schools alone will call to mind the hate speech banned in Columbine: "Jesus Wept."


...the kind of film criticism we do. We are talking about life, and more than that the possibility of abundant life." -M.Leary

"Dad, how does she move in mysterious ways?"" -- Jude (my 5-year-old, after listening to Mysterious Ways)

[once upon a time known here as asher]

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Wasn't Ann Coulter fired from National Review Online for her over-the-top rhetoric; and isn't she now accusing her ideological opponents of Treason? I'd want a more reputable source than her before shelling out $ for a book.


To be an artist is never to avert one's eyes.
- Akira Kurosawa

http://secularcinephile.blogspot.com

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Heh. For all the ribbing I take about views on other topics not having their own niche on this board, let it be said that I never have mentioned the Coulter. I've been curious about this book. I'll go back and read the original post.

Fascinating. Reminds me of 2nd Grade in New Jersey where I was always given an opportunity to advertise my Mom's "Good News Club" every week, then always punished for my announcement. But that was a twisted teacher, not a school administration.


"During the contest trial, the Coleman team presented evidence of a further 6500 absentees that it felt deserved to be included under the process that had produced the prior 933 [submitted by Franken, rk]. The three judges finally defined what constituted a 'legal' absentee ballot. Countable ballots, for instance, had to contain the signature of the voter, complete registration information, and proper witness credentials.

But the panel only applied the standards going forward, severely reducing the universe of additional basentees the Coleman team could hope to have included. In the end, the three judges allowed about 350 additional absentees to be counted. The panel also did nothing about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of absentees that have already been legally included, yet are now 'illegal' according to the panel's own ex-post definition."

The Wall Street Journal editorial, April 18, 2009 concerning the Franken Coleman decision in the Minnesota U.S. Senate race of 2008.

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Wasn't Ann Coulter fired from National Review Online for her over-the-top rhetoric; and isn't she now accusing her ideological opponents of Treason?

Don't know about the first part, there, but oui to the second part. One of the claims she makes in Treason (and this is according to a very complimentary article in, where else, National Review Online) is that ol' Joe McCarthy was really on to something and that his excoriation was undeserved.

It makes me sad to think that my elementary school librarian, Yolanda Gonzales, is almost surely no longer allowed to put up her "Feliz Navidad" decorations every year. That is, if she hasn't retired by now.


Let's Carl the whole thing Orff!

Do you know the deep dark secret of the avatars?

It's big. It's fat. It's Greek.

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Andrew wrote:

: Wasn't Ann Coulter fired from National Review Online for her over-the-top

: rhetoric . . .

For saying that we should racially profile "swarthy males", for saying that we should bomb Muslim countries and make Christians of them, or both, yeah.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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Just noticed the curious apologetics of this sentence: 'There is no surer proof of Christ's divinity than that he is still so hated 2000 years after his death.'

What would this make Hitler and Stalin, then?


To be an artist is never to avert one's eyes.
- Akira Kurosawa

http://secularcinephile.blogspot.com

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What would this make Hitler and Stalin, then?

It would suggest they've got roughly nineteen and a half centuries to go on their respective apotheoses...

Caligula, however, must be almost finished with his.


Let's Carl the whole thing Orff!

Do you know the deep dark secret of the avatars?

It's big. It's fat. It's Greek.

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Just noticed the curious apologetics of this sentence: 'There is no surer proof of Christ's divinity than that he is still so hated 2000 years after his death.'

What would this make Hitler and Stalin, then?

Uh.....?

If I am not mistaken Hitler and Stalin didn't preach and encourage the same life that Christ did. A life of love, grace, compassion, service to God the Father, honesty, humility, putting others needs before your own...need I go on? (rhetorical)

Christ is still berated and censored today even though everything he did and taught was right and perfect. He did not wrong and portrayed no unjust act yet his name still brings forth anger and hatred. That is the irony of the Love/Hate attitude that still exists toward Christ today.

The comparison to Hitler, Stalin and/or Caligula makes absolutely no sense.


...the kind of film criticism we do. We are talking about life, and more than that the possibility of abundant life." -M.Leary

"Dad, how does she move in mysterious ways?"" -- Jude (my 5-year-old, after listening to Mysterious Ways)

[once upon a time known here as asher]

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Guest Russell Lucas

No, there's clearly no comparison in their message. Rather, it's a matter of the absence of logic in saying that the fact that Christ's name is still reviled in some corners two thousand years later is proof of His divinity. That doesn't follow. Yes, we're told that the Messiah will be rejected by many of those He came to save, but it is not merely that widespread rejection that provides proof of the truth of His claims. That's where the political mass-murderers comparison is apropos. They're widely-reviled by the public, and yet no one credibly takes that distaste as evidence of the justness of their causes.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not trying to defend the Coulter, but we are making too much of this. It seems to me that this is a standard preaching to the choir reference found everywhere there is a self-described put upon minority or subculture. I've heard worse locutions on Sunday morning.

OTOH, Coulter is not the issue here. I'll be surprised if it finds reviewers at all outside WORLD Mag, MOODY MONTHLY, and such. And probably conservative media.


"During the contest trial, the Coleman team presented evidence of a further 6500 absentees that it felt deserved to be included under the process that had produced the prior 933 [submitted by Franken, rk]. The three judges finally defined what constituted a 'legal' absentee ballot. Countable ballots, for instance, had to contain the signature of the voter, complete registration information, and proper witness credentials.

But the panel only applied the standards going forward, severely reducing the universe of additional basentees the Coleman team could hope to have included. In the end, the three judges allowed about 350 additional absentees to be counted. The panel also did nothing about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of absentees that have already been legally included, yet are now 'illegal' according to the panel's own ex-post definition."

The Wall Street Journal editorial, April 18, 2009 concerning the Franken Coleman decision in the Minnesota U.S. Senate race of 2008.

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I would agree ONLY if this statement was isolated from the rest of what had been said. BUT it is not a singular statement.

The statement specifically refers to the examples sited and the following sentence of persecution. People are still being persecuted and American freedoms are being taken away because someone chooses to live for Christ. This is not about any other religious leader or fascist regime.

You are right this does not, necessarily, prove the divinity of Christ but the idea presented in this article is that of persecution of the followers of Christ in a FREE country. This draws a perfect picture of fear turned into hatred. There is absolutely no other way to describe this behavior when what these people, 5 year olds at that, are doing is not harmful to anyone. If anything it is extremely beneficial to all. The real issue to what they are doing is Christ. If one decided to pray to Mecca in school there would be no problem. If there were a problem it would be considered intolerant and prejudicial.

People aren


...the kind of film criticism we do. We are talking about life, and more than that the possibility of abundant life." -M.Leary

"Dad, how does she move in mysterious ways?"" -- Jude (my 5-year-old, after listening to Mysterious Ways)

[once upon a time known here as asher]

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not trying to defend the Coulter, but we are making too much of this. It seems to me that this is a standard preaching to the choir reference found everywhere there is a self-described put upon minority or subculture. I've heard worse locutions on Sunday morning.

OTOH, Coulter is not the issue here. I'll be surprised if it finds reviewers at all outside WORLD Mag, MOODY MONTHLY, and such. And probably conservative media.

And that is a SHAME!! These incidents are real and documented. I am not here to promote Coulter but the idea that the entire country is not privy to this information only strengthens the ideas presented in this commentary and, frankly, it sickens me.


...the kind of film criticism we do. We are talking about life, and more than that the possibility of abundant life." -M.Leary

"Dad, how does she move in mysterious ways?"" -- Jude (my 5-year-old, after listening to Mysterious Ways)

[once upon a time known here as asher]

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But Asher, even you overstate the case! This is NOT persecution. It is harrassment. The Supreme Court has spoken fast and often in recent decades on much of the examples in the review above. These people doing these things can be *ahem* recalled, or voted out. One can sue on destruction of property grounds alone on some counts, let alone First Amendment issues. Nobody is getting beat up or locked up per school administrations. Even if they were, there is legal recourse. With legal recourse, it must not be labelled persecution.


"During the contest trial, the Coleman team presented evidence of a further 6500 absentees that it felt deserved to be included under the process that had produced the prior 933 [submitted by Franken, rk]. The three judges finally defined what constituted a 'legal' absentee ballot. Countable ballots, for instance, had to contain the signature of the voter, complete registration information, and proper witness credentials.

But the panel only applied the standards going forward, severely reducing the universe of additional basentees the Coleman team could hope to have included. In the end, the three judges allowed about 350 additional absentees to be counted. The panel also did nothing about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of absentees that have already been legally included, yet are now 'illegal' according to the panel's own ex-post definition."

The Wall Street Journal editorial, April 18, 2009 concerning the Franken Coleman decision in the Minnesota U.S. Senate race of 2008.

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Guest Russell Lucas

I haven't read the book, and any response to the events described therein should begin there. I'm torn-- I really am. I know that there are instances where faith is unjustifiably criticized or squelched by school officials in ways that current law doesn't require (or even, in some instances, permit). The Equal Access Act is a perfect example of a necessary response to an unjustified snub of Christian groups. Still, I'm cautious in swallowing these things whole for two reasons. First, I think these overreactions occur more now than ever in part because of the growing multiplicity of religious and ethnic culture in America. I think there's a tendency to come down hard on all religious references and practices as a blunt and imperfect way to avoid charges of differential treatment or calls for difficult reasonable accomodation. Second, I've been around long enough to know that people on all sides of the ideological aisle need anecdotes that can go into fund-raising literature. Exaggeration happens. And there are instances where fellow believers want, and practically beg, to have controversy visited upon them so that they can be vindicated through lawsuits or the threats of lawsuits. We're playing the same games that other groups and people are, and we've got lawyers who like high-profile opportunities to assert our rights in a public forum.

Again, though, that is not to deny that the events described may have happened. In individual cases, there may be unwarranted, selective mistreatment that should be rectified by informal or formal methods of dispute resolution. I just think that the "hostility of culture" tact is one of the least useful motivations or avenues for true reconciliation or true repentance.

I should disclose, though, that I do dissent from many in the Christian religious-liberties bar in that I believe Justice Scalia's approach to the free exercise clause, as set forth in the majority opinion in Employment Division v. Smith, is both the more workable and the constitutional one, rather than the pro-Religious Freedom Restoration Act approach.

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Russell, I defer to you on legal matters (I'm only armchair when it comes to the law), and while I see your point on the multiplicity of religions, I am tempted to see toleration as being excercised as squelching Christianity at whatever level, but a level christians are unaccustomed to. Many examples I have heard of over the years seem to be of the catagory of power relationships. Christianity is seen to be the power (or "imperialist") faith that has run over "alternative" forms of faith. Therefore, it is assumed that Christianity, the familiar religion can be deferred so others can be expressed. There are obvious problems with this, not the least of which are competing POV's of what Christianity is.

OTOH, I think that some christians indulge in persecution mongering here in America, seeing persecution where at least, a lesser description would suffice. And not merely for fundraisuing purposes either. Many in the faith crave some evidence of the possiblity of persecution here as a sign of the end times, or evidence that we are not "lukewarm" as American christians. With real persecution and martyrdom going on elsewhere in the world, we devalue what bretheren experience by liking our experience to theirs.


"During the contest trial, the Coleman team presented evidence of a further 6500 absentees that it felt deserved to be included under the process that had produced the prior 933 [submitted by Franken, rk]. The three judges finally defined what constituted a 'legal' absentee ballot. Countable ballots, for instance, had to contain the signature of the voter, complete registration information, and proper witness credentials.

But the panel only applied the standards going forward, severely reducing the universe of additional basentees the Coleman team could hope to have included. In the end, the three judges allowed about 350 additional absentees to be counted. The panel also did nothing about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of absentees that have already been legally included, yet are now 'illegal' according to the panel's own ex-post definition."

The Wall Street Journal editorial, April 18, 2009 concerning the Franken Coleman decision in the Minnesota U.S. Senate race of 2008.

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asher wrote:

: Christ is still berated and censored today even though everything he did

: and taught was right and perfect.

Actually, I find that most people tend to love Jesus -- they just have a problem with the people who claim to be his representatives. Recall how Monty Python was going to make a movie spoofing Jesus until they actually read the gospels and realized he was saying good things. So they made a movie mocking religious zealots instead.


"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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This topic reminds me of my experience in high school in upstate New York. Having been milked on such stories of pseudo-persecuted Christians in America, and having called Living Epistle (the T-shirt makers), who sent me stickers and pamphlets about my constitutional rights, my friends and I approached the principal certain that he would rage against our idea of forming a Bible Club and have us carted off to jail by some sort of liberal, PC police force. Instead, he very calmly told us that was fine but that it needed to have a teacher sponsor who would not participate but could lend us a classroom, and it needed to be held after school hours, as was the case with every club. It was rather anticlimactic, considering we had gathered arguments and prepared to march to court if thwarted. And so the Bible Club began.

Just rhetorically, but how dorky is it to have been a part of a Bible Club in high school? How dorky to have co-founded such a club? And how dorky to have been asked to sit out of one's own club's Bible trivia games because one knew too many answers? Oy.

While I think harrassment of Christians does exist, I don't think it's necessarily the norm. For one thing, many of the teachers I had in public schools were Christian, as well as the administrators and fellow students. I think it makes sense not to force religious views on a large group of people with disparate beliefs. We as students could advertise our Bible Club in the same way as any club, and in the same way a Koran or Torah Club could have been, but I can understand making teachers refrain from endorsing a particular religious club during class, since that might suggest that students had to fall in line with those beliefs to succeed academically.

I also wonder how many of the lawsuits and so forth are due to high school students, who are often already at a part of their lives where they want to be noticed, to rebel. Despite being shy, I felt at that New York high school like I needed to do something that would be obvious and countercultural. And, despite being a good student, I felt an understandable oppression under the sometimes arbitrary rules American schools foist on their inmates/students. I expected the authority figures to be my enemies -- which attitude could extend to seeing persecution even if none were present.

To give a non-religious example, my college roommate told a story about her younger brother's oppressive-high-school experience that had something to do with Hooters shirts being "unfairly" banned and his creating or finding a mock-restaurant's shirts that featured a rooster and the name "Cocks." Sometimes high school kids are willing to see a fight everywhere.


www.TheFilmForum.com -- Christian conversation about the movies

www.AmandaLCaldwell.com -- ALC Editing Services

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Guest Russell Lucas

Amanda, when I was a high school senior I went to the principal and told him I wanted to start a pro-life club. He told me that it was a really divisive issue, in fact much too divisive to be the subject of a school activity. I didn't know anything about the Equal Access Act or anything like that, so I just accepted it.

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Amanda, when I was a high school senior I went to the principal and told him I wanted to start a pro-life club. He told me that it was a really divisive issue, in fact much too divisive to be the subject of a school activity. I didn't know anything about the Equal Access Act or anything like that, so I just accepted it.

That is interesting. You should have called Living Epistles. They sent me a bunch of stickers, too! What year were you a senior? (I was a sophomore at the Bible Club beginning--1991-2.) Maybe the principal thought of pro-life as a political more than a religious issue? Not saying that excuses his trampling on your rights, in fact might make his actions less understandable. Did he think you were maybe going to picket, bomb clinics, hassle students with loose reputations? I'd guess a Bible Club can only sound pretty tame.

I do imagine that some public schools and administrators are more wary of religious issues than others. I just thought it was interesting that I had been told that all of them would be and was surprised to find that was not the case. Of course, my school did sing Christian songs (Christmas, traditional, etc.) at concerts and was in a heavily Catholic (and somewhat rural) area. Maybe it was just generally not frightened of religion (or the Christian religion, anyway).


www.TheFilmForum.com -- Christian conversation about the movies

www.AmandaLCaldwell.com -- ALC Editing Services

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Originally posted by Andrew:

This editorial from CT is dead-on, in my opinion, adding some stats to many of the points we've already covered:

Yeah, thanks for that link.

I posted it on another forum and had quite an interesting and heated exchange. :roll:

(The CT article is about the 23rd post down.)


Drop by The Grace Pages, a rest-stop for fellow pilgrims.

-- Dave aka Alvy

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Interesting indeed. Thanks for the link, Alvy.

More and more I'm struck by our proneness to turning our favorite -ologies into idols. In this fellow's case, it's conservatism, but it may as well be psychology, scientific reductionism, environmentalism, you name it.

I'm currently studying the Gospel of Mark, and once again I'm noting how countercultural Jesus was, not having much good to say about conservatives (Pharisees) or liberals (Sadduccees). New wine, the transforming power of the Gospel and the Kingdom of God, needs to be placed in new wineskins, and not crammed into worldly ideologies.

(For this reason, I appreciate Tony Campolo's mindset: when asked whether he's a Democrat or Republican, he replies, "Tell me the issue, and I'll tell you where I stand.")

Forgive me if I'm sermonizing, but this has been much on my mind lately...


To be an artist is never to avert one's eyes.
- Akira Kurosawa

http://secularcinephile.blogspot.com

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