58 replies to this topic

[Buckeye Jones]

That was too subtle for me. I thought it would have ended with the phone part saying, "no service". I got it, though, eventually.

[Chashab]

I held one for the first time this weekend. A friend bought it, switched from a Blackberry, and finds it absolutely grand in a non Mac-fanatic tone. I messed around with it for two minutes and found the interface a delight. I like the weight, it's heavy for a phone, feels substantial in your hand.

But I won't be buying one. Don't have a use for that kind of power presently, don't use a Blackberry, already have an iPod.

[Chashab]

--content deleted--

Not sure.

[Peter T Chattaway]

Don't have time to track down the links, but apparently [1] you will have to send your iPhone in to Mac to have the batteries replaced (apparently this is already the case with iPods? if so, LAME!!), and [2] iPhones are either not available in Canada or immensely impractical in Canada because data rates are way, way, way too high here.

[Chashab]

--content deleted--

Where's this $3400 number coming from? Is it the cost of the plan per month times two years? I haven't heard any such number mentioned anywhere else . . .

[Anders]

Don't have time to track down the links, but apparently [1] you will have to send your iPhone in to Mac to have the batteries replaced (apparently this is already the case with iPods? if so, LAME!!), and [2] iPhones are either not available in Canada or immensely impractical in Canada because data rates are way, way, way too high here.

To be fair, the life on those batteries is long enough that I haven't even had to think about this. We have iPod products and by the time those batteries wear out (and I use them EVERYDAY), I will want to look at a new product anyway.

And also, I like the completely enclosed casing on my iPod much better than my Sony Ericsson phone with the battery that I can change myself. At least there is no battery to fall out or lose or sliding panel on the back that can break.

Edited by Anders, 11 July 2007 - 01:49 PM.

[Chashab]

--content deleted--

Yeah, certainly out of my budget! But as 700,000 consumers stated on the phone's "opening weekend," what constitues a rip-off is subjective. If I regularly made use of a Blackberry, I would probably give the iPhone a very serious look — esp. if I didn't already have an iPod.

I've read that the markup on the iPhone is roughly 50%, which is comensurate with basically all of Apples other products. I wonder if competitors sell products at less of a profit . . . .

[Peter T Chattaway]

Anders wrote:
: To be fair, the life on those batteries is long enough that I haven't even had to think about this. We have iPod products and by the time those batteries wear out (and I use them EVERYDAY), I will want to look at a new product anyway.

Perhaps. Still, there is a huge difference between sending your portable mp3 player in for "repairs" and sending your PHONE in for "repairs". I can do without my iPod for days. I cannot do without my phone.

- - -

Exorbitant data rates keeping iPhone out of Canada?
Steep wireless data rates may be the primary reason Canadians have not yet been treated to Apple Inc.'s revolutionary iPhone handset, according to one expert.
"The barrier to the iPhone in Canada is not Apple," says Michael Geist, Canada research chair of Internet and e-commerce law at the University of Ottawa. "Rather, it is the lack of wireless competition that [...] leads to pricing that places Canadians at a significant disadvantage compared with other developed countries."
In the U.S., AT&T's combined iPhone service and data plans start at just $59.99 for 450 anytime minutes, 5000 additional night and weekend minutes, and unlimited data. But in Canada, as Geist notes, a comparable plan for Rogers Wireless -- the only carrier with an iPhone-compatible GSM network -- would currently run about $295 per month. . . .
AppleInsider, July 10

[TexasWill]

I've read that the markup on the iPhone is roughly 50%, which is comensurate with basically all of Apples other products.

That figure is based on hardware costs alone, not counting shipping, manufacturing, marketing, and (most of all) massive R&D costs to conceive, develop, and perfect the technologies brought forward in the iPhone. After those costs, the markup percentage is much lower.

And there's nothing wrong with an innovative company making a nice profit without the use of monopolistic practices.

--content deleted--

As I understand it, all of the data plans are for unlimited data, so the higher priced plans have more to do with the number of minutes and text messaging package you want. Compared to my regular AT&T plan, the iPhone will only increase my phone bill by $20 a month, and that's not bad at all considering that it adds unlimited data usage.

[TexasWill]

--content deleted--

Yep. That's the going price for the cutting-edge technology. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head to get one.

[MattP]

I felt the same way about the crazy pricing until I actually sat down and did the math for myself.

Yeah, the $500-$600 is gonna be a difference in hardware no matter what other phone or carrier you're looking at. I think the $3k+ figures are a little misleading however. Better to compare the cost to another reasonable alternative. For instance, if I were to bypass the iPhone to go for a new Treo 755p with Sprint (who usually has pretty reasonable rates compared to AT&T), I find this on their website:

450 minutes/mo = $40
Sprint Power Vision access pak (their cheapest data plan, but I assume it's "unlimited") = $15
300 SMS Text Messages = $5

For a total of $60/mo plus taxes/fees. This gives me a virtually identical plan to what you'd get with the iPhone's 450 minute plan, except that you don't get rollover minutes.

The cost of the 755p hardware (for a user signing up for new service) is $280. So that's ($60 x 24) + $280 = $1720 plus taxes and fees for 24 months.

Compare that to the iPhone and the only difference is the price of the hardware and the $36 activation fee, so the iPhone costs $1976 over the same period. (I went with the cost of the 4gb).

That means the iPhone costs $220 more, and that's not including the cost of a 4gb memory card, since the Treo only comes with 60MB of available end user storage space built-in.

Now, if you were to select the Blackberry 8830 instead of the Treo, it only costs $200, but the unlimited data plan for the Blackberry is $40 ("on sale" the site says from the usual $50), plus that $5 again for 300 text messages.

iPhone 4gb = ($60 x 24) + $500 + $36 = $1976
Treo = ($60 x 24) + $280 = $1720 (with no memory card)
Blackberry = ($85 x 24) + $200 = $2240 (with no memory card)

So the way I see it, the iPhone actually costs pretty much the same as a Treo + memory card, and well less than a Blackberry + memory card over the same 2 year period. Not bad considering you get a built in 4gb iPod, the video playback, the huge touchscreen, and the overall Apple useability.

I think the bigger issue is that we're not used to seeing how much our phones are really costing us laid out in this sort of fashion, so when we hear $2k for two years of cell phone service, it sounds outrageous. In fact, it probably IS outrageous, but it's not really any more so than what you'd get with "comparable" (as if there were such a thing) smartphones.

I'm pretty open to someone pointing out my mistakes here though if I've made any. I've not been on the iPhone bandwagon at all, even though it seemed pretty cool in the abstract. But I was expecting package prices far higher than the ones that are offered, which are pretty much right on track with what you can get from any carrier right now, and a bigger and bulkier phone. Then I went to a store to check one out today and it completely blew me away. I don't know that I'd get it as a replacement for a blackberry if your primary use is business email and stuff, but I'd have to say it is the coolest personal electronics gadget I've ever laid my hands on. And it was way smaller and lighter than what I was expecting.

I went from not anticipating that I would ever get one, to playing with it in person and sitting down to really do the math, to now trying to figure out what I can sell to free up $500 or $600.

(Full disclosure: I haven't used a Blackberry in quite a while, but currently have two phones, a Treo 650p on Sprint and a Motorola Q on Sprint (for work). I do not now, nor have I ever owned a single Mac product in my life (except for an iPod nano that I got for free as a gift), so I'm about the furthest thing from a fanboy that you'll find. In fact, I generally like to poke fun at my Mac fanboy friends and tease them about how much money they're wasting, so my wife's having a grand ole time teasing me now that I'm drooling over an iPhone...)

Edited by popechild, 11 July 2007 - 06:15 PM.

[M. Dale Prins]

I pay $7/month for my Virgin Mobile service. And I talk on a phone that I got for free after rebate.

Dale

[Crow]

Some people just have too much money on their hands

[TexasWill]

--content deleted--

Apparently, not yet. That will likely be changed in a coming software update.

Wait -- Palm devices don't have multi-touch interfaces?

[Chashab]

I pay $7/month for my Virgin Mobile service. And I talk on a phone that I got for free after rebate.

Dale

Holy cow. No such plans where I live, at least not ones where the phone actually works!

[Chashab]

From CrunchGear: Rumor: AT&T Crippling BlackBerry To Sell More iPhones:

[SZPT]

--content deleted--

At least until the next security update. Quoting from the same article...

"Apple is in a unique position compared to other smartphone providers," he said, because the company can update the iPhone's firmware with an online-update strategy with which users are comfortable. "Given all the public and privately known vulnerabilities in other smartphones, by the end of this year the iPhone might just end up being the most secure consumer smartphone available."

These concerns are valid... at this moment, but the threat is not permanent.

[Peter T Chattaway]

The iPhone comes with a cost for Rogers
The iPhone will hit Europe this week, and at prices that are likely to put pressure on Rogers Communications Inc. to cut its cellphone rates if it wants to be the carrier that eventually brings the popular device to Canada.
European carriers will offer service plans that start at the equivalent of $70 a month. A rough calculation based on Rogers' current fees for its existing cellphone services indicates that similar features are more than double the price here, based on the cheapest plan. With some other data plans for Rogers' cellphones, customers could rack up bills of hundreds, or conceivably thousands, of dollars.
The data price gap could set the stage for intense negotiations between Toronto-based Rogers and Apple Inc., which designed and markets the popular multimedia phone. Apple was able to wring substantial changes from carriers in the United States and Europe.
Apple wants to see the iPhone reach millions of consumers, and high rates in Canada could interfere with that goal. Speaking from the point of view of users, Dawood Khan, a partner at wireless management consulting firm Kazam Technologies Inc., said: "You can't be counting in the back of your mind how many megabytes you use." . . .
Globe and Mail, November 5

[Peter T Chattaway]

Alan Thomas wrote:
: But those are in Canadian dollars...oh, yeah.

Heh. (For those who don't get the reference, check this thread.)