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The Avengers (2012)

Joss Whedon

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#101 Darryl A. Armstrong

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 02:37 PM

[H]ow does the Hulk fit into this group? Isn't he a little too unpredictable? Isn't it rage (or pain or intensity) that triggers the Hulk? How can he actually work for good? How can he be a part of a team? Seems like that would be harder than other Avengers, even though it's Stark who says, "I don't play well with others."

In the trailer, it is pretty cool to see the Hulk rescue a falling Iron Man. But again -- how can that work? Maybe I simply don't get the Hulk or how he truly works.


As Jason noted, the Hulk was indeed one of the founding members of the original Avengers team. He is triggered by anger, but throughout his history he's fluctuated between being able to retain "control" in Hulk form. At the end of the Edward Norton film, you saw a brief scene of him "learning" how to control the Hulk.

Hawkeye has had absolutely nothing. How do we introduce the other characters and still get a cool plot with a decent bad guy?


Hawkeye had a brief cameo in Thor. He and Black Widow are, after all, second-tier Avengers. And with possible sequels or spin-offs, there's plenty of opportunity to get to spend more time with them.

I have to say though -- I am looking forward to seeing how they tie all the movies, so far, together. I'm certain that is their point, and it seems like the work they put in should be a blast.


Yes!

#102 Jeremy Ratzlaff

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:20 PM

Hawkeye had a brief cameo in Thor. He and Black Widow are, after all, second-tier Avengers. And with possible sequels or spin-offs, there's plenty of opportunity to get to spend more time with them.



..really? He did? I have absolutely no memory of any such cameo. Could be because ninety-nine percent of the movie was entirely forgettable, though..

Edited by Jeremy, 20 March 2012 - 03:20 PM.


#103 SDG

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:28 PM

Hawkeye had a brief cameo in Thor. He and Black Widow are, after all, second-tier Avengers. And with possible sequels or spin-offs, there's plenty of opportunity to get to spend more time with them.

..really? He did? I have absolutely no memory of any such cameo. Could be because ninety-nine percent of the movie was entirely forgettable, though..

Yeah, Jeremy Renner is cut into the scene where Thor is trying to reclaim his hammer.

#104 Thom Wade

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:30 PM

When Thor tries to take back the hammer from Sheild, Renner's Hawkeye is running around to get the drop on Thor with his bow. He is then told to stand down.

#105 Overstreet

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:22 PM

Promising. Very promising. Whatever Jeffrey Wells says, I'm encouraged.

#106 Anders

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:01 AM

Promising. Very promising. Whatever Jeffrey Wells says, I'm encouraged.


A piece of advice JO. Just flat out ignore Jeffrey Wells. I read Hollywood Elsewhere daily for years, and I finally decided that it added nothing. So I stopped always checking it. Now I never check it. And I'm much happier.

#107 Christian

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:13 AM

Promising. Very promising. Whatever Jeffrey Wells says, I'm encouraged.

One of the tweets reads, "Seriously, if comic book movies are your thing, you will be fully satisfied by the concoction Joss Whedon has fixed for you with 'Avengers.'"

What if comic book movies are decidedly NOT your thing? I smell trouble.

#108 Overstreet

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:57 AM

If comic book movies are decidedly NOT your thing, it would be very strange if The Avengers turned out to be your thing. Especially if Whedon wrote it. I would expect nothing less from him than a movie designed to fulfill the dreams of comic book fans.

#109 Overstreet

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:24 PM

Wow. Whedon power.

The Playlist: Marvel's 'The Avengers' Is Immensely Satisfying, Entirely Thrilling & Possibly The Best Superhero Movie Yet

#110 Anders

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

Wow. Whedon power.

The Playlist: Marvel's 'The Avengers' Is Immensely Satisfying, Entirely Thrilling & Possibly The Best Superhero Movie Yet


I read the review. As I commented on Facebook, I'm happy to hear that they felt it works as a whole and isn't a disaster. Still, there are too many caveats in that review, and even some of the descriptions of things that they sounded enthused about, for me to buy the "Best Superhero Movie yet" line.

#111 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:06 PM

Anders wrote:
:I'm happy to hear that they felt it works as a whole and isn't a disaster. Still, there are too many caveats in that review, and even some of the descriptions of things that they sounded enthused about, for me to buy the "Best Superhero Movie yet" line.

Yeah, Jeffrey Wells noted a few days ago that some of the early geek reviews were kind of read-between-the-lines-able. (Apparently a number of them said this film has the most satisfying THIRD act of any Marvel movie to date, but that kind of left a question mark over the first two acts.)

Kyle Smith also likes this film, particularly the dialogue, and particularly Mark Ruffalo's take on Bruce Banner / the Hulk, but it's hard to know what to make of a review coming from a guy who thinks Iron Man 2 is the best Marvel film to date. (Avengers itself he ranks #4, behind Captain America and the original Iron Man.) He also qualifies his praise by saying that this film is "on a par with Spider-Man 2, of which I'm not especially fond" -- and which many of us, I think, would regard as easily the best of the Spider-Man movies. So, uh, hmmm.

#112 Anders

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:13 AM

Kyle Smith also likes this film, particularly the dialogue, and particularly Mark Ruffalo's take on Bruce Banner / the Hulk, but it's hard to know what to make of a review coming from a guy who thinks Iron Man 2 is the best Marvel film to date. (Avengers itself he ranks #4, behind Captain America and the original Iron Man.) He also qualifies his praise by saying that this film is "on a par with Spider-Man 2, of which I'm not especially fond" -- and which many of us, I think, would regard as easily the best of the Spider-Man movies. So, uh, hmmm.


Wow, Kyle Smith is like the bizzaro-Anders. IRON MAN 2 might be my least favourite of the Marvel films so far (yes, even behind the Ed Norton INCREDIBLE HULK). And you're right about my opinion of the Spider-Man films.

#113 Overstreet

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:08 PM

Justin Chang, Variety:

Marvel's cinematic master plan for its comicbook all-stars pays off in extravagant fashion with The Avengers. Like a superior, state-of-the-art model built from reconstituted parts, Joss Whedon's buoyant, witty and robustly entertaining superhero smash-up is escapism of a sophisticated order, boasting a tonal assurance and rich reserves of humor that offset the potentially lumbering and unavoidably formulaic aspects of this 143-minute team-origin story.


Edited by Overstreet, 20 April 2012 - 12:08 PM.


#114 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:14 PM

Anders wrote:
: IRON MAN 2 might be my least favourite of the Marvel films so far (yes, even behind the Ed Norton INCREDIBLE HULK).

Yeah, I agree, I think. I haven't seen Norton's Hulk since it came out four years ago, but I tried watching Iron Man 2 a second time when it showed up on Netflix, and, gah. It actually starts off pretty strong, but then there are long, boring, stretches of wasted time -- to say nothing of some of the sillier plot contrivances. And of course the whole movie exists pretty much JUST to set up The Avengers.

I'm almost inclined to think that Smith likes Iron Man 2 so much just because of that opening "I've privatized world peace" bit.

: Justin Chang, Variety:

Hate to say this, but wasn't Chang the guy who said that Cars 2 retroactively justified the original Cars? If, by that, he meant that Cars 2 made the original Cars seem quite good by comparison, then I would agree. But, um, I don't think he meant that.

And yeah, that's one of those reviews that might follow a critic for a while. We all have them, I'm sure. :)

#115 Overstreet

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:24 PM

Do we really have to bring the Cars debate into yet another thread? It's becoming one of the most talked-about films in the history of A&F.

Isn't Roger Ebert the guy who wrote off Raising Arizona because people don't really talk that way? Yeah, every critic has their minority-opinion reviews. In general, I like Chang's perspectives. I'm encouraged by his response to this one; it gives me more hope that I won't be wasting my time at the theater on Monday night.

#116 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

Overstreet wrote:
: Do we really have to bring the Cars debate into yet another thread? It's becoming one of the most talked-about films in the history of A&F.

We should mash it up with one of those other most-talked-about films here... Tree of Cars...

: Isn't Roger Ebert the guy who wrote off Raising Arizona because people don't really talk that way?

Did he really? Interesting. Not too surprising, given that it was one of the Coens' very first films, so people might not have "gotten" them yet. Plus, that review came out a quarter-century ago, so he's had time to rack up even stranger reviews since then. Posted Image

But the more pertinent point here is that The Avengers is, like Cars 2, a sequel -- and a sequel to films that some people have had serious quibbles with. So it's not just Chang's perspective as a critic in general that I'm wondering about here, but how he approaches SEQUELS, and how we should adjust our expectations given that approach.

Incidentally, the wife and I have booked a babysitter for the preview screening of this one. I think this will be our first night out at the movies since Thor, a year ago. So I certainly HOPE this movie is good!

#117 Thom Wade

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:30 AM

I follow several comic book writers who apparently got to see the movie last night...granted, most of them work for Marvel, but for what it is worth, they all seemed to have enthusiastically loved it.

#118 CrimsonLine

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:31 PM

When you guys have seen the film, I need to know: can I take my 9-year-old son to it? He saw Captain America and Thor in full, but we decided to fast-forward through brief bits of Iron Man and IM2, for sensuality reasons.

#119 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:53 PM

The film actually opened in Europe last Wednesday and has raked in $180 million in just five days... more than most Marvel Comics movies have made overseas in their entire lifetimes. (Only eight Marvel films have grossed over $200 million overseas: the three Spider-Mans, the two Iron Mans, the third and fifth X-Men, and Thor.)

So there's a good possibility that our British comrades (and any other European comrades?) may have seen the film already.

(Side note: Both this film and Battleship are already in the global Top 12 of the year, based entirely on their foreign ticket sales; you could also add Intouchables, which opened in France in 2011 but has opened in most other countries in 2012, and has also not yet opened in North America. How often does something like this happen?)

#120 Tyler

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:05 PM

How often does something like this happen?)


Peter, you're asking us about box-office arcana? If you don't know it, what are the chances anyone else does?





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