97 replies to this topic

[SDG]

Thanks, gents!

Heh. Bowen, Anders' strategy in her ROTF review is very close to what I was considering for DOTM, before I hit on Vogon poetry as my point of entry.

[Thom Wade]

I resent that

Spoiler

When the villain saves the heroes life, the response to the act is a "witty" one liner and the hero murdering the the villain. Bay's grasp of how the good guys behave is tenuous at best...but the Punisher has a more honorable code that Optimus Prime seems to.

Unless my co-worker lied to me...that is what I was told happened.

[bowen]

SDG, on 30 June 2011 - 06:56 AM, said:

Thanks, gents!

Heh. Bowen, Anders' strategy in her ROTF review is very close to what I was considering for DOTM, before I hit on Vogon poetry as my point of entry.

By the way, was it my imagination, or was this a surprise review from you? I didn't remember seeing Transformers 3 in your "Coming Soon" list.

[Peter T Chattaway]

Can someone clarify the Star Trek quotation in this film?

I was pretty sure I heard it as "The needs of the many outweigh ... the needs of the few," and one of the reasons I was pretty sure about that was because I was waiting during that pause to see if we would hear the full line. (And we sort-of did; a REALLY complete quote would have added "... or the one.")

But now I've come across an article on the movie's Star Trek references which says that the movie turned the line around, so that the character in question says, "The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many."

Certainly the WAY the line is quoted here is somewhat subversive, but I didn't think the actual line ITSELF had been changed. Am I remembering wrong, though?

(Side note: This line has been subverted already within the Star Trek movies themselves. In ST3:TSFS and ST4:TVH, Spock is told by two people -- first Kirk, then his own mother -- that sometimes "the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many", when the many have chosen to sacrifice themselves for the one. And you could argue that the whole point of Star Trek: Insurrection is that the RIGHTS of the few outweigh the NEEDS of the many.)

Edited by Peter T Chattaway, 30 June 2011 - 01:27 PM.

[SDG]

bowen, on 30 June 2011 - 01:01 PM, said:

By the way, was it my imagination, or was this a surprise review from you? I didn't remember seeing Transformers 3 in your "Coming Soon" list.

You're right, it wasn't. I wasn't sure until I had screened the film and began preparing for "Reel Faith" that I really wanted to write it up, and I never got around to updating my "Coming Soon" list.

Peter T Chattaway, on 30 June 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

Can someone clarify the Star Trek quotation in this film?

I was pretty sure I heard it as "The needs of the many outweigh ... the needs of the few," and one of the reasons I was pretty sure about that was because I was waiting during that pause to see if we would hear the full line. (And we sort-of did; a REALLY complete quote would have added "... or the one.")

Yes. (Can't clarify the exact end because it was lost amid audible groaning, possibly coming only from me, but it definitely starts "The needs of the many outweigh ..."

Quote

But now I've come across an article on the movie's Star Trek references which says that the movie turned the line around, so that the character in question says, "The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many."

No.

Quote

(Side note: This line has been subverted already within the Star Trek movies themselves. In ST3:TSFS and ST4:TVH, Spock is told by two people -- first Kirk, then his own mother -- that sometimes "the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many", when the many have chosen to sacrifice themselves for the one.

Yes. That's not the version alluded to in DOTM.

Nezpop, on 30 June 2011 - 07:18 AM, said:

I resent that

Spoiler

When the villain saves the heroes life, the response to the act is a "witty" one liner and the hero murdering the the villain. Bay's grasp of how the good guys behave is tenuous at best...but the Punisher has a more honorable code that Optimus Prime seems to.

Unless my co-worker lied to me...that is what I was told happened.

Huh. I'm pretty sure I missed that, although I was confused a lot of the time.

[Peter T Chattaway]

Baal_T, on 07 February 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

Peter T Chattaway, on 09 December 2010 - 12:27 AM, said:

It occurs to me, on watching this teaser, that Neil Armstrong is still alive. I wonder what HE makes of seeing this pivotal moment in his life fictionalized like this:

So does Buzz Aldrin, the oft neglected other guy traipsing around with Armstrong in the gigantic Transformer doohickey.

Question for you, Ball_T'shuvah: Did you know that Buzz Aldrin has a cameo AS HIMSELF in this movie? And I don't mean, like, archival footage -- the old retired astronaut shows up himself to meet the Autobots in the present day. I was completely unaware of this until I saw the film.

[opus]

Topless Robot has just posted their lengthy (and spoiler-filled) Transformers 3 FAQ.

Quote

Well, before we get into the plot, can you sum up your feelings on the film for people who don't want to be spoiled?
Yes I can. I've seen a lot of reviews that compare the movie to Michael Bay dangling his keys in front of the audience's face, as if they were babies that were easily distracted by shiny objects, but that's not strictly accurate. Imagine Michael Bay staring at you and pulling out his keys once every 10 minutes for 10 to 15 seconds. After an hour and a half, he pulls out his keys and leaves them out for an entire hour. Also, the keys are now exploding.

Edited by opus, 30 June 2011 - 03:27 PM.

[SDG]

opus, on 30 June 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

Topless Robot has just posted their lengthy (and spoiler-filled) Transformers 3 FAQ.

You had me at Topless Robot. So looking forward to this.

[opus]

SDG, on 30 June 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

opus, on 30 June 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

Topless Robot has just posted their lengthy (and spoiler-filled) Transformers 3 FAQ.

You had me at Topless Robot. So looking forward to this.

Be sure to check out their Transformers 2 and G.I. Joe: Rise Of Cobra FAQs, too.

[SDG]

opus, on 30 June 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

Be sure to check out their Transformers 2 and G.I. Joe: Rise Of Cobra FAQs, too.

Yes. I've never forgotten that RofF FAQ.

[Tyler]

Blame assignment question: A lot of the problems I'm reading about have to do with how the story doesn't make sense, and blaming Bay for those problems. Bay didn't write the screenplay, though. Ehren Kruger is the only credited writer for DotM (he co-wrote RotF). Of course, a director is responsible for what actually gets shot, but does that relieve the screenwriter of responsibility?

[Peter T Chattaway]

Has Ehren Kruger ever written a movie that DIDN'T have story problems? (Well, okay, I seem to recall the remake of The Ring being fairly good, or at least okay, or something like that.)

Kruger has sole story credit on this film, but he shared credit on Revenge of the Fallen with Roberto Orci & Alex Kurtzman, i.e. the two guys who wrote the FIRST film in this series (as well as the Star Trek reboot, Mission: Impossible III and the second Antonio Banderas Zorro movie) ... and the consensus seems to be that Dark of the Moon might be the best film of the lot, whereas Revenge of the Fallen was the worst film of the lot, so make of that what you will.

FWIW, I believe Shia LaBeouf is also on record as saying that Dark of the Moon is the first film in the series that went into production with a finished script. So there's that, too.

[Thom Wade]

I spoke to someone who said the novelizations of the Transformers films are much better than the films... the books being based on earlier drafts that are unfiltered through "Bay-Vision"...I think people are to quick to assume the script was terrible and assign blame to the writers of bad films, when directors are known to improvise and change things without writer input.

On the other hand, Bay has tken credit for writing the scripts to his films.

Quote

"We've got our characters all designed. I always write all my scripts, my movies anyway so at least I've got something to give the writers. It's like a template. We have a really good outline so I worked on that."

So, how much credit Bay deserves depends on how much you trust his version.

Edited by Nezpop, 01 July 2011 - 07:12 AM.

[Thom Wade]

Based on SDG's recommendation I am seeing this tonight. Yeah...I am blaming you.

[Scholar's Parrot]

SDG, on 30 June 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

opus, on 30 June 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

Be sure to check out their Transformers 2 and G.I. Joe: Rise Of Cobra FAQs, too.

Yes. I've never forgotten that RofF FAQ.

LOVED the RotF one, hadn't seen the new one OR GI Joe's. Thanks!

[Thom Wade]

Peter T Chattaway, on 30 June 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

Can someone clarify the Star Trek quotation in this film?

I was pretty sure I heard it as "The needs of the many outweigh ... the needs of the few," and one of the reasons I was pretty sure about that was because I was waiting during that pause to see if we would hear the full line. (And we sort-of did; a REALLY complete quote would have added "... or the one.")

But now I've come across an article on the movie's Star Trek references which says that the movie turned the line around, so that the character in question says, "The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many."

The article is wrong. It was just as you heard.

[Gina]

Nezpop, on 01 July 2011 - 07:11 AM, said:

On the other hand, Bay has taken credit for writing the scripts to his films.

Why on earth would he want it?

[Peter T Chattaway]

opus wrote:
: Topless Robot has just posted their lengthy (and spoiler-filled) Transformers 3 FAQ.

Awesome. I must admit that only a few of these things occurred to me in the theatre -- partly because, yeah, I honestly DON'T remember the first two movies all that much (so I have no idea how the back-stories established in each of the three movies are supposed to mesh, if indeed any sort of continuity CAN be established between them) -- but this one was a biggie, and really had me wondering why we're supposed to think of the Autobots as good guys in the first place (mild spoiler alert):

And they just decided to wait while the Decepticons massacred people in Chicago?
Pretty much. Although Optimus actually has an explanation for this -- he says, and I swear this is true, that he had to let humans understand the Decepticons were not to be trusted. So the Autobots sat back and let the Decepticons kill thousands of people and destroy a major U.S. city as a lesson.

This point is made all the more jarring in the film by the fact that we see the Decepticons killing random civilians (making their bodies explode, War of the Worlds-style) only moments before the Autobots show up. And we know it's been going on for a while. (And yes, I did wonder, too, how humans were supposed to become the Decepticons' slaves if the Decepticons kept killing them all. The aliens in the Alien movies sometimes kill/eat humans and sometimes kidnap humans and take them back to the hive to implant alien embryos in them, but at least we see them kidnapping the humans once in a while. But do we ever see the Decepticons actually ENSLAVE any humans? Um, I don't think so. Oh, and yes, I think a part of me did wonder what, exactly, human slaves would be useful for on a Decepticon world anyway, too, though I chalked that up to so-and-so's need to feel like a god; there's no point in being a god or a lord if you haven't got people you can lord over.)

[Thom Wade]

If I was writing screenplays and his movie was the end result? I would let Bay take as much credit as possible. I mean the introduction of the girlfriend is like five minutes of her butt as she walks up stairs. I love the response from Shia when asked if the replacement would have problems with Bay's style...and he said know...because she has the Victoria Secret background... You know, the basis for all serious actresses. But she knows how to pose and stare vacantly.

SDG...I kind of disagree that Sam could not get involved with that girl...he is Portrayed as selfish, untrusting and intensely jealous. Terrible personality traits in anyone, though I have seen guys like that manage to keep women out of their league on the hook.

Spoiler

And yup. As Sentinal Prime is about to deliver the killing blow to Optimus, Megatron blows him away. He starts saying he and Optimus need to make a truce... He then asks Optimus how he would live without him. Optimus responds by saying something like "It's time to find out.". He stabs Megatron and rips his head off. To top it off, Optimus turns to Sentinal Prime, obviously defeated and blows him away as Sentinel Prime begs for his life. That is Bay's idea of a hero. In the novel, the Autobots and Decepticons make peace and Optimus creates a truce with Megatron.

[SDG]

Nezpop, on 02 July 2011 - 10:55 AM, said:

SDG...I kind of disagree that Sam could not get involved with that girl...he is Portrayed as selfish, untrusting and intensely jealous. Terrible personality traits in anyone, though I have seen guys like that manage to keep women out of their league on the hook.

Is this a response to something I wrote?