373 replies to this topic

[Peter T Chattaway]

I don't know why this video is called "Love Wins" -- maybe it's just a coincidence and it has nothing to do with the Rob Bell controversy at all -- but anyhoo, just in case:

[Attica]

That's a great video thanks for posting. I've always had problems with the idea of God fully turning his back on humanity after the fall. As well... the Protestant
idea of eternal separation from God hasn't quite worked to me either, as Revelation clearly says that the lake of fire is burning before the Lamb. Who is
of course Christ, who is eternal love.


In light of your post.... the funny thing is........ that just last night I was reading the linked to forum (below) where a protestant had written asking about the Orthodox view of universal salvation.


link to forum




Here is one of the more interesting responses.


Concerning the eschaton we have few dogmatic principles. The most important are contained in Scripture and the Nicene Creed. The possibility that all may be saved is accepted if not without (sometimes) fierce criticism.

Some prominent Orthodox Church Fathers and teachers like St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Isaac the Syrian, St. John of Sinai, Sergij Bulgakov, Bishop Kallistos Ware, Bishop Hilarion Alfejev, St. Siluan the Athonite and not a
few others seem to either (have) embrace(d) universalism or at least (have) cherish(ed) a strong hope of universal salvation, whereas others strongly deny it.

That would be the status of this theological opinion in the Orthodox Church.

Edited by Attica, 14 June 2011 - 03:55 PM.

[Darrel Manson]

Campolo's RLC newsletter has an article that brings C.S. Lewis into the discussion.

[Attica]

Darrel Manson, on 24 July 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

Campolo's RLC newsletter has an article that brings C.S. Lewis into the discussion.

Ever since I read this post I've been pondering about C.S. Lewis in regards to the subject, and I think another thing to add to the mix is that C.S. Lewis expressed a great deal
of respect for George MacDonald and some of his spiritual teaching. George MacDonald is known to have believed in the ultimate reconciliation of all (or at the very
least had a hope that God could eventually be able to reach all people.)

I can't see how C.S. Lewis wouldn't have known this, yet he didn't dismiss George MacDonald like many seem to be doing to Rob Bell, and He obviously didn't consider
him to be a heretic or a false prophet.



On another note, a lot of Evangelicals do have a great love for C.S. Lewis, yet I wonder what he would have thought of Evangelicalism. He was afterall an Anglican, which
to me indicates tht he probably had some significant theological differences from evangelicals, not least of which is the belief in a real presence during the Eucharist,
and Apostolic Succession. My understanding is that he didn't really touch on some of these more divisive aspects of Christian thought in his writings, which is probably
one of the reasons why so many branches of Christianity accept him.

Edited by Attica, 28 July 2011 - 07:29 PM.

[Attica]

Peter T Chattaway, on 14 June 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

I don't know why this video is called "Love Wins" -- maybe it's just a coincidence and it has nothing to do with the Rob Bell controversy at all -- but anyhoo, just in case:

Peter...... awhile back you had mentioned that one of the early important Orthodox theologians had universalist leanings. When I read this I immediately thought
that you were thinking of Maximus the Confessor.


If so..... you might be interested in this bit from some of his writings. I recently finished reading a book of his writings called "On the Cosmic Christ".
The following question and answer is taken from this book (page 115).


Question.... If in the coming ages God will show his riches (Eph. 2:7), how is it that the end of the ages has already come upon us (1Cor 10:11.)

Maximus's answer..... Also according to this plan, it is clear that God wisely divided the ages between those intended for God to become human, and those intended for humanity to become divine...........

..........Since , therefore, the ages predetermined in God's purpose for the realization of his becoming human have reached their end for us, and God has undertaken and in fact achieved his own perfect incarnation,
the other "ages" - those which are to come about for the realization of the mystical and ineffable deification of humanity - must follow henceforth.




I'm not sure if one can read from this particlar writing that he was saying that all of humanity would eventually be deified, or if he was referring to just Christians. Yet it would surely indicate that Maximus (being ancient Greek)
understood the Biblical use of the Koine Greek word aion/os, to refer to "age" or "ages", and not eternity (at least in the pertinent texts). He clearly thought that there were ages to come.

Edited by Attica, 28 July 2011 - 01:31 PM.

[Overstreet]

Rob Bell to Leave Mars Hill Church

[Peter T Chattaway]

Wait a minute, Rob Bell's wife's name is Kristen? As in, Kristen Bell, like the actress who played Sarah Marshall? Kristen Bell, the actress who said Jesus has a lot to offer, but he isn't funny? Huh.

[Thom Wade]

Well, it's coincidence...he is not married to the actress.

Edited by Nezpop, 29 September 2011 - 10:55 AM.

[Persona]

Shane Hipps is great. Peter Rollins would be an excellent new guy (he joked about it earlier today on twitter). But Sundays won't be the same. I may be getting more sleep on weekends soon - podcast is always available on Tuesday nights anyway.

[Overstreet]

From MHC to ABC...

I've started a thread about Stronger here.

Edited by Overstreet, 29 September 2011 - 11:26 PM.

[Attica]

Finally, God himself speaks up about the book.

Edited by Attica, 22 October 2011 - 12:29 PM.

[Tyler]

A few weeks ago, This American Life re-aired "Heretics," an episode about Carlton Pearson, pastor of a large evangelical church with Pentecostal roots, Higher Dimensions, who lost most of his congregation after he "stopped believing in Hell." The position he comes to is that the crucifixion covers and redeems everyone, regardless of how/if they respond to it.

[Justin Hanvey]

which is not the kind of universalism that most theologians aspire to nowadays.

[Attica]

Yes. Carlton's views are different than the strain of thought that Rob Bell has touched upon.