118 replies to this topic

[Joel]

He's 'explaining' what happened, live, right now: http://www.familyrad...m/westHigh.html

[Joel]

He said he got a letter from 'someone' who told him that the rapture and earthquakes, etc. will actually happen in October, and apparently that's enough evidence for him to go with that from now on. Also the universe is going to melt. Makes sense to me!

Quote

Everyone who has had the misfortune to talk with people in the heart or on the edge of mental disorder, knows that their most sinister quality is a horrible clarity of detail; a connecting of one thing with another in a map more elaborate than a maze. If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment. He is not hampered by a sense of humor or by charity, or by the dumb certainties of experience. He is the more logical for losing certain sane affections. Indeed, the common phrase for insanity in this respect is a misleading one. The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason.

GK Chesteron, Orthodoxy

Edited by Joel, 23 May 2011 - 07:49 PM.

[opus]

In case you missed it, the Huffington Post live-blogged his segment.

I'm not surprised that Camping said he wouldn't help those who gave up everything because of his predictions, or take any responsibility for them, but I was a little dismayed at how callous he was about it.

[mrmando]

Lawyers, sharpen your pencils:

Quote

Camping said Family Radio would never tell anyone what they should do with their possessions.

"That is between them and God," he said.

But he said he wouldn't give away all his possessions ahead of Oct 21.

"I still have to live in a house, I still have to drive a car," he said. "What would be the value of that? If it is Judgment Day why would I give it away?"

Family Radio put images of its billboards and other display ads on its Web site and directly asked people to donate money in order to buy space for them. In what way is that not telling people what to do with their possessions?

Quote

Tim LaHaye, co-author of the best-selling "Left Behind" novels about the end times, recently called Camping's prediction "not only bizarre but 100 percent wrong!" He cited the Bible verse Matthew 24:36, "but about that day or hour no one knows" except God.

"While it may be in the near future, many signs of our times certainly indicate so, but anyone who thinks they 'know' the day and the hour is flat out wrong," LaHaye wrote on his website, leftbehind.com.

You know what? Good for Tim. That is precisely the sort of sharp rebuke that Camping deserves.

Unfortunately, it would seem Harold hasn't really learned anything...

[mrmando]

Joel, on 23 May 2011 - 07:43 PM, said:

Also the universe is going to melt. Makes sense to me!

I don't know about you, but I hate when the universe melts. Gets all over your shoes. Last time it happened, I had to spend two days mopping up the basement. And my pet rabbit, Leopold, has never been quite the same since.

[SDG]

opus, on 23 May 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

In case you missed it, the Huffington Post live-blogged his segment.

I'm not surprised that Camping said he wouldn't help those who gave up everything because of his predictions, or take any responsibility for them, but I was a little dismayed at how callous he was about it.

"I have never said I'm infallible ... There isn't any student of the Bible who can't say 'You know, I have made a mistake.' ... We don't always hit the nail on the head the first time."

Where was this kind of language last week?

[Greg P]

SDG, on 24 May 2011 - 05:54 AM, said:

opus, on 23 May 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

In case you missed it, the Huffington Post live-blogged his segment.

I'm not surprised that Camping said he wouldn't help those who gave up everything because of his predictions, or take any responsibility for them, but I was a little dismayed at how callous he was about it.

"I have never said I'm infallible ... There isn't any student of the Bible who can't say 'You know, I have made a mistake.' ... We don't always hit the nail on the head the first time."

Where was this kind of language last week?

Precisely. A pastor friend was over the house last night and showed me a Camping tract that someone gave him several months ago. It contained the phrase "INFALLIBLE PROOFS" in bold letters, in direct reference-- not to the miracles of Jesus or to scripture itself-- but to Camping's arithmetic.

Has anyone seen this yet ? This guy is way too nice to this deceptive, manipulative old crank, in my opinion.

[Thom Wade]

mrmando, on 24 May 2011 - 12:10 AM, said:

Quote

Tim LaHaye, co-author of the best-selling "Left Behind" novels about the end times, recently called Camping's prediction "not only bizarre but 100 percent wrong!" He cited the Bible verse Matthew 24:36, "but about that day or hour no one knows" except God.

"While it may be in the near future, many signs of our times certainly indicate so, but anyone who thinks they 'know' the day and the hour is flat out wrong," LaHaye wrote on his website, leftbehind.com.

You know what? Good for Tim. That is precisely the sort of sharp rebuke that Camping deserves.

Unfortunately, it would seem Harold hasn't really learned anything...

I confess, I am a bit skeptical of people who have made their riches off of decades of end times panic and the "Imminent Return of Christ" being to critical of others end times talk. Of course, I just happen to think LaHay's end times belief are as wrong as Camping's.

[mrmando]

Nezpop, on 24 May 2011 - 07:42 AM, said:

I confess, I am a bit skeptical of people who have made their riches off of decades of end times panic and the "Imminent Return of Christ" being to critical of others end times talk. Of course, I just happen to think LaHay's end times belief are as wrong as Camping's.

Indeed, I don't regard Tim as an authority on much of anything ... except maybe hair products. When it comes to earthquakes and tsunamis and such, he should keep his big yap shut. But I did think it was nice to see a criticism of Camping that had some backbone in it.

[Thom Wade]

True...

I just tend to not be fond of these folks who took full advantage of people's fascination with the end of the world and rather than help them channel it into a healthy spiritual life, pandered to the basest fears and hopes to create a multi-billion dollar industry.

[mrmando]

Maybe that's why Tim comes down so hard. He sees Harold as a competitor!

[Thom Wade]

Just wait until Camping's fictional book series "Repeatedly Left Behind" is released in November.

[SDG]

Nezpop, on 24 May 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

Just wait until Camping's fictional book series "Repeatedly Left Behind" is released in November.

[mrmando]

Greg P, on 24 May 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

Precisely. A pastor friend was over the house last night and showed me a Camping tract that someone gave him several months ago. It contained the phrase "INFALLIBLE PROOFS" in bold letters, in direct reference-- not to the miracles of Jesus or to scripture itself-- but to Camping's arithmetic.

You can still get the "Infallible Proof" tract from Camping's Web site. It was free, and now it's 50 percent off. The only thing Camping has infallibly proved is that a civil engineering background is no basis for a career in hermeneutics. I hear Texas Instruments will add a warning label to its products: NOT RECOMMENDED FOR EXEGESIS.

[metalfoot]

mrmando, on 24 May 2011 - 03:29 PM, said:

Greg P, on 24 May 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

Precisely. A pastor friend was over the house last night and showed me a Camping tract that someone gave him several months ago. It contained the phrase "INFALLIBLE PROOFS" in bold letters, in direct reference-- not to the miracles of Jesus or to scripture itself-- but to Camping's arithmetic.

You can still get the "Infallible Proof" tract from Camping's Web site. It was free, and now it's 50 percent off. The only thing Camping has infallibly proved is that a civil engineering background is no basis for a career in hermeneutics. I hear Texas Instruments will add a warning label to its products: NOT RECOMMENDED FOR EXEGESIS.

That's awesome. And I say that as someone holding both a BSc in mathematics and an MDiv with exegetical specialisation.

[ldwenzel]

I have two Facebook friends, real friends of many years ago, a married couple, who were involved with the Camping prophecy, though only one was a true believer. It was interesting to follow them through the comments to their friends. First, these were very educated people, and I am not sure how they got into all this. But anyway, how painful it was to follow their plight through the threats of ”unbelievers” and then the final show down and the day after May 21rst when the world was as the day before, the disappointment and attempts to comfort one another by updating their statuses. (It seems, when the first date failed in1994, that they were really wiped out, whereas in 2011, they were better prepared for failure since one had renounced it all.) Still, it was a real experience for me to be like a fly on the wall observing, the human dimension, and not just the theological. This is not why I joined Arts and Faith, but I thought I add my moved emotions when I stumbled across this thread.

[SDG]

Camping has suffered a stroke. Obviously, pray for him.

[Greg P]

Personal anecdote here:

Some of you know that my (ex) father-in-law is a pastor and has been at the same church for over 40 years. For close to 20 years an older gentleman named Dwayne attended his church. I knew the man well as did my entire family-- he even attended my wedding back in 1994. He was one of those lonely, retired dudes who went faithfully every week and was just a fixture in the congregation, at prayer meetings, picnics, programs etc...

In May, on the first Sunday of the month, Dwayne announced to all that it would be his final church service and that he was going into his "prayer closet" to prepare for the May 21st Camping Exodus. My father-in-law was shocked because the old man had never mentioned following Camping's teachings or listening to his broadcasts-- but apparently he'd been spending his days glued to the Family Radio for a year or so and was in deep. Some church members tried to talk to him but he was adamant about the rapture date and I guess at some point, because of his age and the intensity of his convictions on the subject, everyone just backed off.

The week following May 21st, my father-in-law went to check on him at the boarding house where he lived and found Dwayne had DIED.

What they were able to piece together was that following May 21st, in an apparent state of depression, Dwayne took a long walk (which was not that unusual because he frequently strolled or rode his bike around town) Unfortunately, he had not been eating or drinking-- no one knows for exactly how long-- and several miles from his home he collapsed in the blazing Miami sun from dehydration. A passerby found him on the ground. He carried no identification and was admitted to a hospital in critical condition as "John Doe", where he died shortly thereafter.

All this is a reminder to me of how guys like Camping prey on the poor, the hopeless, the unstable and the elderly... It's really tragic and I guess no one will ever know how many "Dwaynes" there are out there.

Edited by Greg P, 14 June 2011 - 02:19 PM.

[mrmando]

I wonder to what extent the date-fixing has to do with Camping's own sense of mortality. Wasn't Marshall Applewhite, leader of the Heaven's Gate cult, suffering from terminal cancer when he came up with the plan for his followers to evacuate the planet?