118 replies to this topic

[CrimsonLine]

old wave, on 14 May 2011 - 11:31 AM, said:

I've never seen anything quite like it. I wouldn't be surprised if Family Radio goes bankrupt on 5/22.

Alas, what will probably be the result on the 22nd, if Jesus doesn't return (Maranatha!) is that some people will cling even tighter to Camping's base, while a whole lot of others give up trust in the Bible completely, as if it was the Bible that failed them, and not Camping. I really, really hate the impact that date-setters have on the Church!

[mrmando]

I think old wave refers mostly to the financial impact of Family Radio's tremendous advertising buy. The organization has been valued at $100 million at one point, but most of that has to be in assets, I would think. I doubt the size of the buy is proportional to, or even in the same dimension as, the amount of cash on hand. If I wanted to run a nationwide advertising campaign that culminated in me and everyone in my organization leaving the planet, I might well be tempted to spend money I don't really have, since I figure I won't be around when the bill comes due.

[SDG]

mrmando, on 16 May 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

If I wanted to run a nationwide advertising campaign that culminated in me and everyone in my organization leaving the planet, I might well be tempted to spend money I don't really have, since I figure I won't be around when the bill comes due.

Or you might reason that that would be a hell of a way to meet one's Maker. Traditionally it's been supposed that one should prepare for judgment by settling one's accounts, not by racking up debt from unwitting creditors who vainly expect to be repaid at some point in the future.

I guess you could rationalize that it's making prudent use of unrighteous mammon that won't do anyone any good after Judgment Day -- although if the old world carries on for some time after the Rapture it seems to me that unsaved creditors will have a legitimate grievance. It is hard to know how to live in the shadow of the Eschaton.

If you are a Family Radio employee, do you want your pay and your vacation time before May 21? Or do you reason that, with the Eternal Holidays just around the corner, now is the time to forgo earthly leisure and work for the Kingdom? Obviously the management would prefer that employees follow the second line of reasoning.

Edited by SDG, 16 May 2011 - 10:37 AM.

[MrZoom]

mrmando, on 11 May 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

Camping has also declared that the "age of the church" ended in 1988. Reportedly this means God has no further use for churches, and the only true body of believers is Camping's radio ministry/parachurch organization; furthermore, anyone remaining a member of a church after May 21 will go to hell, or something like that (this on a cursory review of secondary sources). If you want a third strike, that ought to do.

Would I throw the first stone at Camping? No, but I might mail him one with his name on it.

Camping doesn't believe in an eternal hell. He teaches annihilationism -- that the souls of the damned will cease to exist.

He also teaches -- get this -- that Christ's real death for sin took place "before the foundation of the world", and the cross was only a demonstration.

[SDG]

Jimmy Akin analyzes.

Note: The "major supernatural event" Jimmy has in mind really is scheduled to take place on Saturday right around 6pm Eastern Daylight Time ... at my home parish ... and Jimmy will be there.

Quote

Major Supernatural Event This Saturday!

Yes! It’s true! A major supernatural event will be occurring *this* Saturday, May 21, 2011!

I’m *not* kidding!

Harold Camping—president of the Protestant radio outreach known as Family Radio—has been predicting for some time that the long-awaited Rapture will occur on May 21st of this year.

Of course, he’s made similar predictions before. He famously got his followers worked up back in 1994 about that being the year the world would end (or something) and, well ... y’know.

But this time is different!

There really *is* a major supernatural event occurring this Saturday!

[analysis omitted]

Harold Camping is right, though, that a major supernatural event will be happening this Saturday.

One of my godsons is being confirmed!

Congratulations, James!

So, not only is Jimmy James's godfather, come Saturday at 6pm he will also be his confirmation sponsor.

MrZoom, on 17 May 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

[Camping] also teaches -- get this -- that Christ's real death for sin took place "before the foundation of the world", and the cross was only a demonstration.

Of course. Revelation 13:8 teaches that Christ is the "lamb slain before the foundation of the world."

Unless it doesn't. Other translations parse it differently.

Edited by SDG, 17 May 2011 - 10:39 AM.

[M. Leary]

SDG, on 17 May 2011 - 10:38 AM, said:

Unless it doesn't. Other translations parse it differently.

FWIW, I tend to side with the other translations on this one. Netbible has a decent note.

[SDG]

M. Leary, on 17 May 2011 - 10:46 AM, said:

SDG, on 17 May 2011 - 10:38 AM, said:

Unless it doesn't. Other translations parse it differently.

FWIW, I tend to side with the other translations on this one. Netbible has a decent note.

Yep, me too.

Edited by SDG, 17 May 2011 - 10:49 AM.

[SDG]

EDITED:

I've seen some counter-CAMPINGITE Facebook Events like "No end of the world on May 21" and even "post rapture looting" ... and while I almost never RSVP to FB Events and have NEVER created one, I thought I might use that venue to express the thought that a lot of very confused people may need prayer this Saturday evening and beyond.

Facebook Event: Pray for CAMPINGITES (6:00 PM Saturday, May 21)

Yes, "Campingite" isn't a word, but it's what my brain was trying to write when I came up with "Campbellite" instead ... and it will do for this event.

Edited by SDG, 17 May 2011 - 12:21 PM.

[MrZoom]

SDG, on 17 May 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

I've seen some counter-Campbellite Facebook Events like "No end of the world on May 21" and even "post rapture looting" ... and while I almost never RSVP to FB Events and have NEVER created one, I thought I might use that venue to express the thought that a lot of very confused people may need prayer this Saturday evening and beyond.

Facebook Event: Pray for Campbellites (6:00 PM Saturday, May 21)

Um, Campbellites? Doesn't that usually refer to the "Churches of Christ" movement?

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Campbellite

[SDG]

Yes, I am now abjectly trying to recover from the Worst. Multitasking. Brain. Failure. EVER. "Campingites" is not a word of course, and my brain went camping on me and came up with the wrong word. I've fixed the event name.

[mrmando]

Here is some insight into the question of how the advertising campaign is being financed.

Quote

A retired MTA employee has pumped his $140,000 life savings into an ad campaign warning that the world will end on May 21.

Robert Fitzpatrick, a follower of the notorious California Evangalist Harold Camping, has posted his Doomsday message on 1,000 subway car placards and at bus shelters throughout New York city.

So, at least some of the ad campaign is grassroots-funded: not only have people quit their jobs to help promote Camping's wackiness, they're also paying for the ads. Yeah, if I were Harold I might give away a lot of stuff, but I'd hang on to the Rolodex that has my lawyer's number in it.

[opus]

I've posted a few thoughts re. Harold Camping and May 21 on Christ and Pop Culture.

[CrimsonLine]

opus, on 18 May 2011 - 09:50 AM, said:

I've posted a few thoughts re. Harold Camping and May 21 on Christ and Pop Culture.

Well done, Jason. I've Shared this on my Facebook page.

[Persona]

The rapture or whatever is after 6 pm on Saturday, right? Need to make sure I get the kiddies to the kite festival early this year, must hit that beach by noon.

Then again, who knows, maybe we'll all just get left behind. If the kites are still flying I probably won't care.

[Peter T Chattaway]

If the rapture takes place in each time zone one at a time, then does this mean people like me can just wait and see what happens in New Zealand and Asia and Europe first, before deciding to repent our ways and join the elevator off this planet?

For that matter, could a non-believer on the western side of the International Date Line experience a sudden conversion, after seeing all his Christian friends vanish, and hustle across to the eastern side of the International Date Line in time for lift-off?

[mrmando]

Conversely, if nothing happens to the east of me at 6 p.m., will it be too late to get theatre tickets?

[opus]

Peter T Chattaway, on 18 May 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

If the rapture takes place in each time zone one at a time, then does this mean people like me can just wait and see what happens in New Zealand and Asia and Europe first, before deciding to repent our ways and join the elevator off this planet?

IIRC, the earthquakes starts somewhere in the Pacific rim at 6pm and then moves across the globe (though I'm not sure if it moves east or west). So those living in, say, Europe, will have a few hours of advance warning until it gets to be 6pm for them.

[Goodnight Tuesday]

These things amaze me. The only thing that would amaze me more is if he's right...

The man's 90 years old. A lot of people that age still have their wits about them. He's obviously lost a few. Someone should have a kind word. In my experience obsessing like this can be a sign of mental disfunction. May God have mercy on his soul.

[mrmando]

Well, it would have to start at the International Date Line, in Fiji or thereabouts. If it starts in any other time zone, then some people will end up getting raptured on the wrong date!

That would give me and Peter 21 hours' notice ... but according to Camping, only people who have a fervent "desire to follow the entire Bible" are truly saved and can expect to be raptured. (Baptism, profession of faith, etc., are not sufficient, he says.) I don't know if 21 hours will be enough time for an individual to develop the kind of faith that would satisfy Camping's conditions.

[Peter T Chattaway]

mrmando wrote:
: I don't know if 21 hours will be enough time for an individual to develop the kind of faith that would satisfy Camping's conditions.

Oh, if the sudden rapturing of Kiwis and Aussies proved Camping's beliefs, I think I'd be inclined to follow his beliefs in other areas too. Granted, I wouldn't have time to prove whether I had the stamina to maintain my newfound beliefs, and granted, Camping might not care much for the parable of the landowner who paid all the day labourers equally no matter when he had hired them, but still -- at that point, I think God's conditions would matter to me more than Camping's.