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Alvy recommended that I see this film, over in the Family Way (1966) thread, so I got the Criterion DVD out of the public library and watched it on this statutory-holiday afternoon. Fine little film; definitely of a piece with Room at the Top (1959), Alfie (1966) and other films that explore the changing social standards and ambiguous morality of the traditional working class in an increasingly modernized England -- if that isn't too handy a way of trying to sum these films up in a single sentence.
Except for Family Way -- which doesn't really have much in common with Billy Liar apart from its northern setting and the participation of Wilfred Pickles (who is much more serious, even bitter, in his role here than I would have expected) -- all these films concern a hustler of sorts, whose ambitions are generally sexual and/or class-related; but where Alfie is a promiscuous success with the ladies (though not in a way that gives him any fulfillment), and where Joe Lampton successfully marries into the upper class (but in a way that leaves him feeling trapped), Billy Fisher is held back by his own Walter Mitty-like daydreaming; he's too out of touch with the real world to hustle it in any successful way, and when the Julie Christie character finally turns up and offers him a chance -- even just a slim chance -- at actually PURSUING his dreams and making a reality of them, he passes it up (and he almost seems content in doing so, since he can continue to live in his daydream world, which is an odd contrast to the pathetic, self-conscious frustrations of those other characters).
Anyway, I'd be interested in discussing this further, with Alvy or anyone else who has seen it.
Interesting cast, BTW. This was apparently only Julie Christie's third film, and it seems to be the first of any repute (unless Crooks Anonymous and The Fast Lady were famous and no one told me), so I am curious as to why her name is so prominent in the credits -- was she well-known as a stage actress, perhaps? Her big breakthroughs in Darling and Doctor Zhivago were still two years away, at this point. I also recognized Mona Washbourne (Billy's mother), who I know as "Aunt Lydia" from a Disney spy flick called The Omega Connection (1979); and Finlay Currie (Councilor Duxbury, one of Billy's bosses), who co-starred in a number of Bible epics and religious films before this, as the Apostle Peter in Quo Vadis (1951), as the wise man Balthazar in Ben-Hur (1959), and as King David in Solomon and Sheba (1959).
Also interesting is that this film was written by Keith Waterhouse and Willis Hall, and was based on a play of theirs which, in turn, was based on a novel by Waterhouse; these two writers first collaborated on the script for Whistle Down the Wind (1961), which I know has its fans on this message board. And of course, the film was directed by John Schlesinger, here making only his second feature film (following 1962's A Kind of Loving).
Someone on one of the other threads said something about a remake of this film being in the works, but I see no indication of such a thing on the IMDB. I do, however, see that this film spawned two TV series -- a British one called Billy Liar in 1973, and an American called simply Billy in 1979 ... starring Steve Guttenberg! (Shiver.)
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john schlesinger's billy liar (1963) alvy's all-time favorite film, iirc?
MultiQuote
#2
Posted 03 August 2004 - 04:09 AM
Glad you saw the film. Couldn't gauge whether you actually liked it, although you obviously found some things interesting.
I think Christie absolutely shines in this film. The shots of her swinging her purse as she skips her way through downtown Bradford are unforgettable (especially with Richard Rodney-Bennett's swinging music). Not sure why she got such high billing -- it occurs to me that perhaps they used the "up-and-coming star" angle in the film's marketing?
The thing I love about Liz (the Christie character) is how she brings out honesty in Billy. She's the only one Billy opens up to. She knows him well. She holds the key to Billy's problem, because she seems to have the balance that Billy lacks: She knows and loves that same world of fantasy and daydreaming, and yet at the same time she has her feet firmly planted in the real world.
I love the scene in the dance-hall, for example, when Billy tells Liz that the "Rockin' Cinderella" number being played was written by him and his friend Arthur (Rodney Bewes). We the audience, of course, see it as simply another lie in the long litany of fanciful fabrications, until it is revealed that he was telling Liz the truth -- I find that quite a moving moment, for it highlights the biggest strength (and opportunity) of his relationship with Liz, namely, that he can be honest with her.
As for Billy's contentment to pass up the London opportunity, I think the clue is in the maternal imagery of that shot at the station when Billy clutches the two cartons of milk to his chest: The poor lad can't leave his mother. For me it had strong echoes of the scene in Truffaut's Les 400 Coups (1959) when the young Antoine Doinel runs away from home and is seen guzzling down a stolen bottle of milk, which may have been a conscious influence, given that the French Nouvelle Vague was the forebear of the British New Wave.
And again, Liz knows him well enough to expect this: When he returns to the train his suitcases are waiting on the platform for him. In fact, what's ironic is that she apparently knows Billy better than he knows himself, for from his reaction at missing the train (he hurries to catch it, and then throws the cartons on the track frustratedly when he realizes it has just left) he doesn't appear to recognize that he was looking for a way out, something Liz obviously does.
I think Christie absolutely shines in this film. The shots of her swinging her purse as she skips her way through downtown Bradford are unforgettable (especially with Richard Rodney-Bennett's swinging music). Not sure why she got such high billing -- it occurs to me that perhaps they used the "up-and-coming star" angle in the film's marketing?
The thing I love about Liz (the Christie character) is how she brings out honesty in Billy. She's the only one Billy opens up to. She knows him well. She holds the key to Billy's problem, because she seems to have the balance that Billy lacks: She knows and loves that same world of fantasy and daydreaming, and yet at the same time she has her feet firmly planted in the real world.
I love the scene in the dance-hall, for example, when Billy tells Liz that the "Rockin' Cinderella" number being played was written by him and his friend Arthur (Rodney Bewes). We the audience, of course, see it as simply another lie in the long litany of fanciful fabrications, until it is revealed that he was telling Liz the truth -- I find that quite a moving moment, for it highlights the biggest strength (and opportunity) of his relationship with Liz, namely, that he can be honest with her.
As for Billy's contentment to pass up the London opportunity, I think the clue is in the maternal imagery of that shot at the station when Billy clutches the two cartons of milk to his chest: The poor lad can't leave his mother. For me it had strong echoes of the scene in Truffaut's Les 400 Coups (1959) when the young Antoine Doinel runs away from home and is seen guzzling down a stolen bottle of milk, which may have been a conscious influence, given that the French Nouvelle Vague was the forebear of the British New Wave.
And again, Liz knows him well enough to expect this: When he returns to the train his suitcases are waiting on the platform for him. In fact, what's ironic is that she apparently knows Billy better than he knows himself, for from his reaction at missing the train (he hurries to catch it, and then throws the cartons on the track frustratedly when he realizes it has just left) he doesn't appear to recognize that he was looking for a way out, something Liz obviously does.
#3
Posted 03 August 2004 - 08:50 AM
Alvy wrote:
: Glad you saw the film. Couldn't gauge whether you actually liked it . . .
I did, yeah, but I obviously wasn't as smitten with it as I think you are.
: The thing I love about Liz (the Christie character) is how she brings out honesty in
: Billy. She's the only one Billy opens up to. She knows him well.
Yes, I loved lines of hers like, "Count to five and tell the truth." She doesn't just attract a sort of honesty out of him, she actually holds him to account -- and yet in a way that shows she loves him and cares about him. She's got Barbara's sincere good will for Billy, but without her pathetic naivete; and she's got Rita's knowing skepticism, but without her cynicism.
: She holds the key to Billy's problem, because she seems to have the balance that
: Billy lacks: She knows and loves that same world of fantasy and daydreaming,
: and yet at the same time she has her feet firmly planted in the real world.
Ah, yes, whereas Rita would scorn Billy's daydreaming and Barbara would probably only tolerate it at best, Liz actually ENCOURAGES it -- it's impossible to imagine Rita or Barbara wanting to be the Foreign Secretary of Ambrosia, but Liz definitely might!
: I love the scene in the dance-hall, for example, when Billy tells Liz that the
: "Rockin' Cinderella" number . . .
'Sister Twisterella', I think. One thing that struck me about the music in the dance hall, BTW, was how 'retro' I imagined it might have seemed even THEN -- but then, I guess this was only 1963, and the Beatles were still brand new and rock'n'roll hadn't quite come to dominate the British pop-culture scene yet; plus, of course, the dance hall seems to appeal to people of ALL ages (we see Mr Shadrack there), whereas rock'n'roll would have been more of a teenybopper thing; and now, come to think of it, I am wondering if people Billy's age would have had any interest in rock'n'roll to begin with.
: . . . being played was written by him and his friend Arthur (Rodney Bewes). We
: the audience, of course, see it as simply another lie in the long litany of fanciful
: fabrications, until it is revealed that he was telling Liz the truth -- I find that quite
: a moving moment, for it highlights the biggest strength (and opportunity) of his
: relationship with Liz, namely, that he can be honest with her.
Interesting. I found myself actually inclined to believe Billy, but wanting some sort of verification. I think there was something about the way Billy insisted on his story this time, or something about the way his story included not just him but a co-worker of his as well, that suggested to me he was not simply living inside a fantasy there.
: As for Billy's contentment to pass up the London opportunity, I think the clue is in
: the maternal imagery of that shot at the station when Billy clutches the two
: cartons of milk to his chest: The poor lad can't leave his mother.
Ah, of course. I hadn't made that exact connection.
: And again, Liz knows him well enough to expect this: When he returns to the train
: his suitcases are waiting on the platform for him.
Which, in its own way, is another sign that she cares for him, isn't it? I remember thinking, "But if he misses the train, what about his suitcases?" And then I saw, oh, there they were on the platform again. That look on Liz's face is quite something, too -- definite disappointment, but nothing judgmental, as it were.
: Glad you saw the film. Couldn't gauge whether you actually liked it . . .
I did, yeah, but I obviously wasn't as smitten with it as I think you are.
: The thing I love about Liz (the Christie character) is how she brings out honesty in
: Billy. She's the only one Billy opens up to. She knows him well.
Yes, I loved lines of hers like, "Count to five and tell the truth." She doesn't just attract a sort of honesty out of him, she actually holds him to account -- and yet in a way that shows she loves him and cares about him. She's got Barbara's sincere good will for Billy, but without her pathetic naivete; and she's got Rita's knowing skepticism, but without her cynicism.
: She holds the key to Billy's problem, because she seems to have the balance that
: Billy lacks: She knows and loves that same world of fantasy and daydreaming,
: and yet at the same time she has her feet firmly planted in the real world.
Ah, yes, whereas Rita would scorn Billy's daydreaming and Barbara would probably only tolerate it at best, Liz actually ENCOURAGES it -- it's impossible to imagine Rita or Barbara wanting to be the Foreign Secretary of Ambrosia, but Liz definitely might!
: I love the scene in the dance-hall, for example, when Billy tells Liz that the
: "Rockin' Cinderella" number . . .
'Sister Twisterella', I think. One thing that struck me about the music in the dance hall, BTW, was how 'retro' I imagined it might have seemed even THEN -- but then, I guess this was only 1963, and the Beatles were still brand new and rock'n'roll hadn't quite come to dominate the British pop-culture scene yet; plus, of course, the dance hall seems to appeal to people of ALL ages (we see Mr Shadrack there), whereas rock'n'roll would have been more of a teenybopper thing; and now, come to think of it, I am wondering if people Billy's age would have had any interest in rock'n'roll to begin with.
: . . . being played was written by him and his friend Arthur (Rodney Bewes). We
: the audience, of course, see it as simply another lie in the long litany of fanciful
: fabrications, until it is revealed that he was telling Liz the truth -- I find that quite
: a moving moment, for it highlights the biggest strength (and opportunity) of his
: relationship with Liz, namely, that he can be honest with her.
Interesting. I found myself actually inclined to believe Billy, but wanting some sort of verification. I think there was something about the way Billy insisted on his story this time, or something about the way his story included not just him but a co-worker of his as well, that suggested to me he was not simply living inside a fantasy there.
: As for Billy's contentment to pass up the London opportunity, I think the clue is in
: the maternal imagery of that shot at the station when Billy clutches the two
: cartons of milk to his chest: The poor lad can't leave his mother.
Ah, of course. I hadn't made that exact connection.
: And again, Liz knows him well enough to expect this: When he returns to the train
: his suitcases are waiting on the platform for him.
Which, in its own way, is another sign that she cares for him, isn't it? I remember thinking, "But if he misses the train, what about his suitcases?" And then I saw, oh, there they were on the platform again. That look on Liz's face is quite something, too -- definite disappointment, but nothing judgmental, as it were.
#4
Posted 04 August 2004 - 09:10 AM
Yeah, I just rewatched the film yesterday, and Twisterella it was.
As I was watching, one thing I thought might disprove my case for Liz knowing Billy better and bringing out honesty in him was in the dance hall, when he tells her about the job with Danny Boon, which she just seems to accept unquestioningly. However, when the emcee announces to the crowd that Billy's just got a job in London with Boon, there is no doubt from the way Liz rolls her eyes and shakes her head that she is well aware it is just another of Billy's fantasies.
I hadn't quite realized how little screentime Christie actually has, although I definitely think of her as one of the two main roles.
When I get a minute (I am typing this at my sister's place, as my own computer is out-of-action with a virus!!) I'll tell you a wee bit more about where my own smittenness (is that a word?) with this movie began.
As I was watching, one thing I thought might disprove my case for Liz knowing Billy better and bringing out honesty in him was in the dance hall, when he tells her about the job with Danny Boon, which she just seems to accept unquestioningly. However, when the emcee announces to the crowd that Billy's just got a job in London with Boon, there is no doubt from the way Liz rolls her eyes and shakes her head that she is well aware it is just another of Billy's fantasies.
I hadn't quite realized how little screentime Christie actually has, although I definitely think of her as one of the two main roles.
When I get a minute (I am typing this at my sister's place, as my own computer is out-of-action with a virus!!) I'll tell you a wee bit more about where my own smittenness (is that a word?) with this movie began.
This post has been edited by Alvy: 04 August 2004 - 09:13 AM
#6
Posted 05 August 2004 - 02:22 AM
Oh, the other little irony I liked and hadn't noticed before was the scene in the hotel when Billy meets Danny Boon. Here's Danny Boon with all his "How are ya? It's aaaall happening...!" and when Billy changes the script by asking about his scripts, Boon is totally, utterly lost, like he just can't function once his dealings with people wander away from the showbiz script. (Leslie Randall plays that scene brilliantly.)
One other thing that struck me during the recent re-viewing that hadn't struck me in the same way before were the specific ways in which the fantasies help Billy cope with life: He deals with his grandmother's death by fantasizing her elaborate funeral; he copes with returning home by envisioning dozens of soldiers marching alongside him.
My own affection for this film began when I was perhaps eleven or twelve. I guess I wasn't old enough then to see that Billy was irresponsible and immature; all I saw was a kindred spirit who loved daydreaming and fantasy like me, a role model, even! I remember I was so taken with the character that I had a dream about Billy and myself running amok in some small vehicle or other, something like one of those Mini-Mokes from The Prisoner.
I've been watching Billy Liar ever since, and have of course found far greater depths than at first, although I can't deny I still see a little of Billy in me.
There are so many things I love about the film now. I think it is an excellent example of how stage material can become uniquely cinematic. I also look forward sometime to visiting Bradford to tour the locations. I was in Bradford a few months ago, for another purpose, and managed to catch a glimpse of the war memorial on which Billy and Arthur dance (rather irreverently, one of many similar moments in the film that highlight the generation-gap).
One other thing that struck me during the recent re-viewing that hadn't struck me in the same way before were the specific ways in which the fantasies help Billy cope with life: He deals with his grandmother's death by fantasizing her elaborate funeral; he copes with returning home by envisioning dozens of soldiers marching alongside him.
My own affection for this film began when I was perhaps eleven or twelve. I guess I wasn't old enough then to see that Billy was irresponsible and immature; all I saw was a kindred spirit who loved daydreaming and fantasy like me, a role model, even! I remember I was so taken with the character that I had a dream about Billy and myself running amok in some small vehicle or other, something like one of those Mini-Mokes from The Prisoner.
I've been watching Billy Liar ever since, and have of course found far greater depths than at first, although I can't deny I still see a little of Billy in me.
There are so many things I love about the film now. I think it is an excellent example of how stage material can become uniquely cinematic. I also look forward sometime to visiting Bradford to tour the locations. I was in Bradford a few months ago, for another purpose, and managed to catch a glimpse of the war memorial on which Billy and Arthur dance (rather irreverently, one of many similar moments in the film that highlight the generation-gap).
#7
Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:41 AM
Alvy wrote:
: My own affection for this film began when I was perhaps eleven or twelve.
Heh. Do you think you would show it to an 11- or 12-year-old, yourself? Did the sexual stuff fly right over your head, or did you "get" it? I first saw The Family Way when I was about 12, too, and I'm sure it's probably had a lifelong effect on how I think about such things.
BTW, I couldn't help wondering, was the actor who played Danny Boon particularly "known" in Britain for having a radio or TV show like that, or for being that sort of character in other venues? Or did they just hire a regular actor to play that guy?
: My own affection for this film began when I was perhaps eleven or twelve.
Heh. Do you think you would show it to an 11- or 12-year-old, yourself? Did the sexual stuff fly right over your head, or did you "get" it? I first saw The Family Way when I was about 12, too, and I'm sure it's probably had a lifelong effect on how I think about such things.
BTW, I couldn't help wondering, was the actor who played Danny Boon particularly "known" in Britain for having a radio or TV show like that, or for being that sort of character in other venues? Or did they just hire a regular actor to play that guy?
#8
Posted 05 August 2004 - 01:57 PM
There's nothing I would think damaging to show to an 11- or 12-year-old, personally. As you say, sexual content (unless it's visually graphic) tends to fly over the heads of most youngsters. Certainly I don't remember much of the sexual content of Billy Liar from when I first saw it many moons ago.
I didn't even recognize the name of Leslie Randall (Danny Boon) until I looked it up on IMDB yesterday for that last post. He certainly is great in the part.
I didn't even recognize the name of Leslie Randall (Danny Boon) until I looked it up on IMDB yesterday for that last post. He certainly is great in the part.
This post has been edited by Alvy: 05 August 2004 - 01:58 PM
#9
Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:35 PM
FWIW, there are some fascinating now-and-then photos of the Bradford locations used in this film at this Facebook page.
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