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embryonic stem cell death


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#1 SDG

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:34 PM

From the "Flaming Kerry" thread...

QUOTE (The Baptist Death Ray)
There are thousands of fertilized eggs sitting in fertility clinics that are going to be tossed out into the trash... they are no longer available for stem cell research. What? You thought maybe people were fertilizing eggs EXPRESSLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF STEM CELL RESEARCH? Mr. Brooks' abject stupidity makes me gag.

This threw me at the time because I don't know nearly as much about this subject as I should. Certainly, destroying even these lives in the name of research is anathema to me, though not necessarily MORE so than destroying them simply by tossing them in the trash, and if that's all that Kerry's promises to provide federal funding for embryonic stem cell reearch meant, it might not necessarily mean more deaths, or lives being created in order to be destroyed.

Apparently, though, whether by fertilizing eggs, or by cloning embryos -- and apparently we DO clone human embryos, though so far no successful effort has been made to get a cloned embryo to grow up into a born-alive baby -- embryonic stem cell research, and much more embryonic stem cell therapy, DOES mean creating life in order to destroy it.

We are doing it now. Here's an example from Chicago. Here's another from North Korea.

From a CNN.com interview with Dr. Sanjay Gupta:

QUOTE
Q. What is embryonic stem cell research and how is it performed?

A. For the first time, scientists are actually creating embryos for the sole purpose of research. Embryonic stem cell research involves collecting undifferentiated cells from embryos. These cells can differentiate into many different cell lines, including cardiac, neuro, or even skeletal muscle. The cells themselves are programmed into a cell line using stimulation of growth techniques.

Just a little research online turned up much more documentation from respectable, neutral sources.

This is happening now with private funds. John Kerry wants to fund it on the federal level.

This is potentially far, far bigger than abortion. Abortion is an atrocity of circumstance -- a circumstantial response to an unwanted pregnancy. However many thousands of abortions occur every day, each abortion is essentially an isolated tragedy, something that happened because one particular woman happened to get pregnant.

Federally funded embryonic stem cell research threatens to be a programmatic atrocity -- an industry employing any number of people in the business of creating human beings in order to destroy them in the laboratory.

Beyond that, because patients reject embryonic stem cells that are not a genetic match, whatever embryonic stem-cell therapies come out of the research will require patients to donate genetic material that will then be used to generate embryonic clones to become new donors.

Why does federal funding make such a difference? It seems that the private sector isn't coming through here, in large part for the excellent reason that, apparently, adult stem-cell therapies are already delivering results and no one has yet accomplished any therapeutic results with embryonic stem cells.

I don't care what your beef with Bush is. If you're pro-life, this is bigger than that.

#2 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 09:53 PM

SDG wrote:
: This is potentially far, far bigger than abortion. Abortion is an atrocity of
: circumstance -- a circumstantial response to an unwanted pregnancy. . . .
: Federally funded embryonic stem cell research threatens to be a programmatic
: atrocity -- an industry employing any number of people in the business of
: creating human beings in order to destroy them in the laboratory.

Good point.

FWIW, I'm not sure whether this merits an 'Ahem' or not.

Edited by Peter T Chattaway, 25 October 2004 - 09:55 PM.


#3 run

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Posted 29 October 2004 - 10:08 PM

Anyone see 20/20 on Friday?

http://abcnews.go.co...d=207216&page=1

Within his "Gimme a break" segment,
John Stossel emphasized the difference between supporting stem cell research vs supporting the government funding of stem cell research. He definitely was against forced federal funding for research and said that the rich and famous like Bill Gates and Brad Pitt, who are pursuading voters, could themselves get together and fund the research themselves. ($3 billion dollars in California?)

But, what exactly is the current law on stem cell research?

So do private institutions currently have the right to breed embryos solely for stem cell research purposes?


Edited by run, 29 October 2004 - 11:16 PM.


#4 CrimsonLine

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 06:28 AM

QUOTE(run @ Oct 29 2004, 11:07 PM)
So do private institutions currently have the right to breed embryos solely for stem cell research purposes?

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Yes. The issue being debated is Federal Funding for the destruction of new embryos.

#5 Darrel Manson

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 09:23 AM

And is it different from Federal funding of military, which as a pacifist, I'd rather not do? Should we be able to earmark our taxes? Or does living in community mean we have to hold our noses?

#6 CrimsonLine

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 12:30 PM

QUOTE(Darrel Manson @ Oct 30 2004, 10:22 AM)
And is it different from Federal funding of military, which as a pacifist, I'd rather not do?  Should we be able to earmark our taxes?  Or does living in community mean we have to hold our noses?

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I would think that living as a nation means that we have a say in how our taxes should be spent - we write our congresscritters, we form coalitions, and we vote. You have every right to agitate to not have tax money spent on the military. And when you are outvoted (which you will be) you have every right to make as big a stink about it as you can - though as a Christian, you still need to pay your taxes.

And that's what I plan to do when it comes to stem cell research. I am agitating about it, trying to persuade others, and praying that Bush wins the election. In the end, I will pay my taxes if I lose on this, but I will never stop raising the issue.

It's not so much holding our noses - which implies passive acceptance - as it is raising a stink! smile.gif

#7 Jason Bortz

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 10:38 AM

Welp, it didn't get mine or my wife's vote, but:

Proposition 71 passes in California.








Edited by Jason Bortz, 03 November 2004 - 10:41 AM.


#8 Darrel Manson

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 11:34 AM

That's ok, it got two votes at our house.

#9 Jason Bortz

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Posted 03 November 2004 - 11:46 AM

Cool, we cancelled eachother out!

#10 Christian

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 04:11 PM

Steven: I love your sig line!

#11 SDG

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 04:47 AM

Wow, thanks for calling this out Alan.

#12 Overstreet

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 01:19 PM

How to use embyronic stem cells WITHOUT damaging or destroying embryos.

A whole new approach could make this whole debate a thing of the past.

#13 Clint M

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 12:39 AM

Looks like South Korea just might have beaten the US to the punch.

Paralyzed woman walks again after stem cell therapy

But here's the important thing to note:
QUOTE
SEOUL (AFP) - A South Korean woman paralyzed for 20 years is walking again after scientists say they repaired her damaged spine using stem cells derived from umbilical cord blood.

Hwang Mi-Soon, 37, had been bedridden since damaging her back in an accident two decades ago.

Last week her eyes glistened with tears as she walked again with the help of a walking frame at a press conference where South Korea (news - web sites) researchers went public for the first time with the results of their stem-cell therapy.

They said it was the world's first published case in which a patient with spinal cord injuries had been successfully treated with stem cells from umbilical cord blood.


So here's the billion dollar question - if further research proves that this technique works over embryonic stem cells, how would this affect the research done in this country?

#14 opus

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:00 PM

Eggs 'fertilised' without sperm
QUOTE
Scientists have devised a way to make human eggs behave as if they have been fertilised - without using sperm.

The team from Wales College of Medicine at Cardiff University say this could provide a more ethically acceptable way of creating 'embryonic' stem cells.

The 'embryos' do not contain any paternal chromosomes, so could not develop into a baby.

Could this make ethical objections against stem cell research nonexistent?

#15 Christian

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 04:22 PM

More interesting developments.

#16 mrmando

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 05:03 PM

QUOTE(opus @ Dec 14 2004, 04:00 PM)
Could this make ethical objections against stem cell research nonexistent?

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Doubtful, but it could make them irrelevant. smile.gif

#17 SDG

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 01:11 PM

Stem cells: Now in amniotic fluid!

Media sound-bite takeaway: "This doesn't mean it's not imperative that we keep killing embryos!"
Nonetheless, Daley said, the discovery shouldn't be used as a replacement for human embryonic stem cell research.

"While they are fascinating subjects of study in their own right, they are not a substitute for human embryonic stem cells, which allow scientists to address a host of other interesting questions in early human development," said Daley, who began work last year to clone human embryos to produce stem cells.


#18 MattP

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:08 PM

Simple switch turns cells embryonic: Technique removes need for eggs or embryos (Nature)
Research reported this week by three different groups shows that normal skin cells can be reprogrammed to an embryonic state in mice. The race is now on to apply the surprisingly straightforward procedure to human cells.

If researchers succeed, it will make it relatively easy to produce cells that seem indistinguishable from embryonic stem cells, and that are genetically matched to individual patients. There are limits to how useful and safe these would be for therapeutic use in the near term, but they should quickly prove a boon in the lab.

Edited by popechild, 06 June 2007 - 04:08 PM.


#19 CrimsonLine

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 07:22 PM

QUOTE(popechild @ Jun 6 2007, 05:08 PM) View Post
Simple switch turns cells embryonic: Technique removes need for eggs or embryos (Nature)
Research reported this week by three different groups shows that normal skin cells can be reprogrammed to an embryonic state in mice. The race is now on to apply the surprisingly straightforward procedure to human cells.

If researchers succeed, it will make it relatively easy to produce cells that seem indistinguishable from embryonic stem cells, and that are genetically matched to individual patients. There are limits to how useful and safe these would be for therapeutic use in the near term, but they should quickly prove a boon in the lab.

Wow.

GREAT news. Thanks for sharing this, popechild!

#20 Christian

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Posted 20 November 2007 - 03:18 PM

Wesley Smith:

So thank you for your courageous leadership, Mr. President. Because of your willingness to absorb the brickbats of the Science Establishment, the Media Elite, and weak-kneed Republican and Democratic politicians alike we now have the very real potential of developing thriving and robust stem-cell medicine and scientific research sectors that will bridge, rather than exacerbate, our moral differences over the importance and meaning of human life.