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Evolution


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#181 David Smedberg

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 10:38 PM

Ummm......

#182 Darrel Manson

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 02:42 PM

I meant intellectually, but physically would be almost as entertaining.

#183 Tyler

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:27 PM

From NPR: Is Believing in God Evolutionarily Advantageous?

#184 Pierrot

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 04:52 PM

From NPR: Is Believing in God Evolutionarily Advantageous?



Oh, oh, I'm no biologist but I think that's not how evolution works.

What they want to be true with this article?
It wants to be true that people's behavior can be affected by the mere belief of a God, so the heavily atheist readership can justifies to themselves: "oh there's a scientific reason those nuts accept unskeptical costumes after all".

#185 Pierrot

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 05:49 PM

And of course, this social agenda pamphlet disguised as truth totally ignores that people believe in God(s) for a totally different reason in western Earth today than they did 6000 thousand years ago. At the moment we developed a culture, a civilization and allowed other people to influence us how to think and how to behave all bets were off.

#186 Tyler

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:53 PM

Couldn't find a "creationism" thread, so I'll put this here: Pat Robertson Dispels Creationist Idea That Earth Is 6,000 Years Old.

Look, I know that people will probably try to lynch me when I say this, but Bishop [James] Ussher wasn't inspired by the Lord when he said that it all took 6,000 years.



#187 SDG

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:01 AM

Couldn't find a "creationism" thread, so I'll put this here: Pat Robertson Dispels Creationist Idea That Earth Is 6,000 Years Old.

Look, I know that people will probably try to lynch me when I say this, but Bishop [James] Ussher wasn't inspired by the Lord when he said that it all took 6,000 years.

That's a snappy line, but here's the money quote: "If you fight science, you're going to lose your children, and I believe in telling it the way it was."

#188 J.A.A. Purves

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

Couldn't find a "creationism" thread, so I'll put this here: Pat Robertson Dispels Creationist Idea That Earth Is 6,000 Years Old.

Not that anything he says ever has any weight, but something like this has even less weight when every organization, publication or school associated with or started by him teaches the "young earth" viewpoint.

On an different note, I've been meaning to ask, who around here has ever read The Creationists by Ronald L. Numbers?

#189 SDG

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:37 AM

Not that anything he says ever has any weight, but something like this has even less weight when every organization, publication or school associated with or started by him teaches the "young earth" viewpoint.

I'm not sure it's a matter of "weight," but of noteworthiness -- and the fact you note, that he seems to be breaking with every organization associated with him, would seem to make it more notable, not less.

#190 J.A.A. Purves

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:59 AM

I'm not sure it's a matter of "weight," but of noteworthiness -- and the fact you note, that he seems to be breaking with every organization associated with him, would seem to make it more notable, not less.

But I don't want anything Pat Robertson says to be noteworthy! He's not supposed to be in the news anymore. There should be a gentleman's agreement where the other side agrees, as a matter of decency, not to print anything he says as long as any serious person agreed not to listen to anything he says. He could say he believes in evolution tomorrow, but that wouldn't mean that scientists would want him around.

#191 SDG

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:44 AM

But I don't want anything Pat Robertson says to be noteworthy! He's not supposed to be in the news anymore. There should be a gentleman's agreement where the other side agrees, as a matter of decency, not to print anything he says as long as any serious person agreed not to listen to anything he says. He could say he believes in evolution tomorrow, but that wouldn't mean that scientists would want him around.

What is noteworthy about it is that it looks like a notable crack in the anti-evolution fundamentalist establishment. "Serious persons" may not listen to Robertson, but those who do listen to him are a significant demographic, and their existence has a significant impact on the larger cultural and political discussion. Only a few days ago as notable a figure as Marco Rubio was in the news for declining to speak to the age of the earth and suggesting that the old earth / young earth debate was beyond his pay grade, as it were. If enough of Pat Robertson's audience absorbs the message that Christianity does not require young earth creationism, it could be a step forward in the national discussion on faith and science.

#192 Tyler

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

but here's the money quote: "If you fight science, you're going to lose your children, and I believe in telling it the way it was."


Yeah, that line stood out to me, too. Francis Collins makes a similar point in The Language of God.

#193 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:36 PM

SDG wrote:
: That's a snappy line, but here's the money quote: "If you fight science, you're going to lose your children, and I believe in telling it the way it was."

As I mentioned at Facebook (on Tyler's wall, I think?), all I could think after hearing that quote was to wonder how many positions Pat *does* take could be challenged with similar "you're going to lose your children" reasoning.

#194 Justin Hanvey

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:41 PM

I really don't care if God used evolution to create. Honestly (and I am no scientist or biologist so this is purely from an amateur standpoint) I don't see a lot of evidence for it, but I don't care how God created, just that He created. I think a lot of Christians could benefit from such a mindset.

#195 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:55 PM

Justin Hanvey wrote:
: I really don't care if God used evolution to create.

That should be "uses", present tense.

#196 Justin Hanvey

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:01 PM

Good point. My lack of knowledge showing lol.

#197 Andrew

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Whatever one's religious point of view, I think the evidence for evolution is unassailable - the best books I've found on the subject are Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller (a Christian, btw) and, my own favorite for its comprehensive readability, The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins (an atheist, btw). For a lighter view, from the perspective of the recent intelligent design trial in Pennsylvania, is 40 Days and 40 Nights by Matthew Chapman, an atheist descendant of Charles Darwin.

#198 Peter T Chattaway

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Although, technically, did Pat Robertson say anything about *evolution* per se here? The only point I can recall him addressing was the age of the earth, and for that, he pointed to radiocarbon dating and stuff like that, right?

#199 Justin Hanvey

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

When you take the words intelligent design at their base meaning (and you believe in God creating) then it's kinda hard not to agree with the ideal. Of course God is intelligent, and of course He designed(designs) intelligently. That we don't always "get" why He did/does a thing a certain way doesn't mean it's not intelligent.

#200 Andrew

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

If that's all that Intelligent Design theorists meant by it, then yes, I can see how as a Christian theist, that would be indisputable. But the theorists add in arguments such as irreducible complexity that most biologists see as indefensible. And then you have the lawmakers (very recently in my home state of TN) who try to use ID as a wedge to introduce theism into science classrooms, and you've got a 1st Amendment issue.

The other problem is that many ID apologists posit ID and evolution as an either/or proposition, which is problematic to the extreme. Richard Dawkins is fond of saying that evolution made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist. I would add that an acceptance of the overwhelming evidence for the reality of evolution is necessary to be an intellectually honest theist.

I'd highly recommend the Chapman and Miller books, if this subject interests you. Chapman's book is the more enjoyable read, as he's got a playful sense of humor and writes for a general audience. Miller's book is more demanding, but as a bio major and regular reader of medical/scientific literature, I appreciated his intellectual rigor and scientific detail.

Edited by Andrew, 02 December 2012 - 11:08 AM.