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The lens flares rule.

No. They really, really don't.

I wouldn't want them in I Am Love or Salt or Inception, or whatever the new thing is that I've seen. They work for this space film though, it does add the "rock" to the "classical".

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Did it have the "rock" or did it have the lens flares?

To the former, the people that made the metaphor say it did. I'm not so sure.

To the latter, I have no idea.

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So, like, your question is answered then, right?

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I thought the lens flares were a bit over used, but I thought the backlash against the lens flares was more annoying. :)

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I thought the lens flares were a bit over used, but I thought the backlash against the lens flares was more annoying. :)

Best lens flare comment so far. By far.

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Apologies if this has been covered, but after skimming the thread, it appears nobody raised a beef about the biggest thing that bothered me:

Why didn't Spock Prime trek on over to the Federation base earlier to warn Vulcan of it's impending doom? At first I thought maybe he was worried about running into himself and causing some sort of universe ending event, but he himself dispels that idea at the end of the film.

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Darryl A. Armstrong wrote:

: Why didn't Spock Prime trek on over to the Federation base earlier to warn Vulcan of it's impending doom?

You mean, the base on the ice planet? The one were Scotty works? Hmmm. Well, the ice planet was so incredibly close to Vulcan that Vulcan loomed rather large in its sky -- you'd almost have to say that the ice planet was a moon of Vulcan's, even though it was established early on in the original series that Vulcan has no moons -- so there might not have been any time to do anything about Vulcan's impending doom. Nero was already so close to Vulcan that he could turn around and attack the planet within minutes of dropping Spock off on the surface of the ice planet. (How Nero could assume that Spock would be paying attention to the sky at the right time, though, and not running for his life from one of those ice monsters, is another question.)

One possible objection to this theory is that, while Nero may have begun his attack on Vulcan within minutes of dropping Spock off, it would still have taken Nero some time to finish boring a hole into the planet's core. ST:TMP established that Vulcan is about four days' travel from Earth at top speed -- and this was after the Enterprise had been re-fit -- so if you take into account the fact that all those doomed Starfleet Academy vessels had to have time to travel to Vulcan after they received Vulcan's distress signal, then it would seem that Nero had to spend at least four days boring his hole into Vulcan. And presumably Spock could have made his way to Scotty's base by then... but then, what good could he have done? Nero was already prepared to destroy all the ships coming his way, and the Vulcans had already sent their distress signal.

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Good question, Darryl, and good answer, Peter.

The producers have answered the question of "how could Nero assume that Spock would be paying attention to the sky at the right time" by saying that the vision of Spock looking up in the sky and seeing Vulcan is a subjective, internal image, that it was not necessarily what literally happened, but Spock communicating the gist of what happened to Kirk using a mental image, through the mind-meld. It's not that Spock literally stood out in the snow, looking up and seeing the planet implode. Perhaps it was more like Obi-Wan Kenobi shuddered under the weight of millions of voices crying out in terror, and being silenced. Spock has shown a sensitivity to the suffering of masses of Vulcans, even at a distance, in the TOS episode "The Immunity Syndrome," when the space parasite killed a starship full of 400 Vulcans.

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CrimsonLine wrote:

: The producers have answered the question of "how could Nero assume that Spock would be paying attention to the sky at the right time" by saying that the vision of Spock looking up in the sky and seeing Vulcan is a subjective, internal image, that it was not necessarily what literally happened, but Spock communicating the gist of what happened to Kirk using a mental image, through the mind-meld.

Ha! Interesting. But then, didn't Nero want Spock to SEE the destruction of Vulcan? If the producers are now admitting that Spock could NOT have seen the destruction of Vulcan from the ice planet, then it just re-begs the question of why Nero left him there in the first place (and why Nero didn't want to WATCH the grief wash over Spock's face, etc.).

: Spock has shown a sensitivity to the suffering of masses of Vulcans, even at a distance, in the TOS episode "The Immunity Syndrome," when the space parasite killed a starship full of 400 Vulcans.

Very true. Man, can't imagine what the death of an entire planet full of Vulcans must have felt like to him.

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Very true. Man, can't imagine what the death of an entire planet full of Vulcans must have felt like to him.

There is a great disturbance in the Force.

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Darryl A. Armstrong wrote:

: Why didn't Spock Prime trek on over to the Federation base earlier to warn Vulcan of it's impending doom?

You mean, the base on the ice planet? The one were Scotty works?

Yes.

Well, the ice planet was so incredibly close to Vulcan that Vulcan loomed rather large in its sky -- you'd almost have to say that the ice planet was a moon of Vulcan's, even though it was established early on in the original series that Vulcan has no moons -- so there might not have been any time to do anything about Vulcan's impending doom. Nero was already so close to Vulcan that he could turn around and attack the planet within minutes of dropping Spock off on the surface of the ice planet.

I'll get back to the closeness of the ice planet to Vulcan in a minute...

One possible objection to this theory is that, while Nero may have begun his attack on Vulcan within minutes of dropping Spock off, it would still have taken Nero some time to finish boring a hole into the planet's core. ST:TMP established that Vulcan is about four days' travel from Earth at top speed -- and this was after the Enterprise had been re-fit -- so if you take into account the fact that all those doomed Starfleet Academy vessels had to have time to travel to Vulcan after they received Vulcan's distress signal, then it would seem that Nero had to spend at least four days boring his hole into Vulcan. And presumably Spock could have made his way to Scotty's base by then... but then, what good could he have done? Nero was already prepared to destroy all the ships coming his way, and the Vulcans had already sent their distress signal.

I assume he could have done a great deal of good. As imposing as Nero's resources were, could he have taken out an evacuation fleet of ~6 billion? Or, with Spock's knowledge of transporter technology, an army of XXX number of Vulcans beamed aboard his ship (keep in mind, ultimately it only took 2 people beamed aboard to take Nero down)? These are both extreme options, but Spock knows Nero is intent on and has the capacity to destroy the entire planet. The logical course of action would be extreme indeed.

The producers have answered the question of "how could Nero assume that Spock would be paying attention to the sky at the right time" by saying that the vision of Spock looking up in the sky and seeing Vulcan is a subjective, internal image, that it was not necessarily what literally happened, but Spock communicating the gist of what happened to Kirk using a mental image, through the mind-meld. It's not that Spock literally stood out in the snow, looking up and seeing the planet implode. Perhaps it was more like Obi-Wan Kenobi shuddered under the weight of millions of voices crying out in terror, and being silenced. Spock has shown a sensitivity to the suffering of masses of Vulcans, even at a distance, in the TOS episode "The Immunity Syndrome," when the space parasite killed a starship full of 400 Vulcans.

Getting back to how close the ice planet was to Vulcan... I was willing to write this off as a "best use of film medium" decision on the part of the filmmakers. I would assume in the novelization, Spock would have seen a small, barely visible burst of light in the sky as Vulcan was destroyed. In fact, I can envision this as much more dramatic event on the written page - witnessing your planet destroyed as a momentary flash, light years away would really bring home the whole helplessness factor. But for the sake of the audience, seeing the explosion "brings it home" on screen.

But if they're going to make retcon explanations about that... I want to know why Spock was hanging out in a cave a short travel time away from a federation base while his planet was being attacked.

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Gender-flipped Star Trek (well, kind of; the dialogue is unchanged):

Edited by NBooth

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I think the net effect of that clip is to make me appreciate the quality of the acting in the Star Trek scene played by Chris Pine and Bruce Greenwood all the more.

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Actually, I enjoyed that clip. It was a bit awkward that they didn't modify the dialogue to account for the change in gender of the characters.

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I just got back from a conference in Chicago, to which I drove. From Rochester, NY to Chicago is about 10 hours (plus a little) and so both on the way there and the way back (twice on the way back) I listened to J.J. Abrams' Star Trek on my iPhone. Because I've seen it so often, I could imagine the scenes in my mind as I listened to the audio. Enjoying the movie three times in four days helped me understand it a lot better, and to rethink some things. Here are some of my thoughts:

1. Plinkett's review of Star Wars, Episode III compared that movie with this one, and pointed out that while characters in the Star Wars prequels walked, sat, and ambled, characters in Star Trek RAN. Boy, now having sat through Star Trek three times in rapid succession, I have to underscore the truth of this observation. People don't walk in this movie, they tear through corridors pell-mell. The characters are constantly running, fighting, gasping for breath. This is a movie that is in a HURRY to get places. The third time through, I tried counting how many times people shouted "GO!" or "MOVE!" or something like that (including "Go! Go! Go!" and "Move! Move! Move!") and I quickly lost track. Part of why this movie is so exciting is that we have to gasp for breath along with the characters.

2. The science in this movie rankled me more each time I listened to it. A supernova that threatens to destroy a galaxy? Really? Supernovas happen ALL the TIME in this galaxy. Stars are so far apart from each other, in real terms, that even the light from a supernova might take hundreds or thousands of years to reach another solar system.

3. And the plot holes were also annoying. I started wondering, while listening to the sequence on Delta Vega - Kirk's escape pod tells him that there's a Starfleet outpost nearby, and there's a beacon sounding on the pod. The computer tells him to stay put and wait for rescue. Pause for a minute - who's in the Starfleet outpost? Scotty and Keenser. Kirk's beacon is thus, theoretically, supposed to attract their attention, right? Okay, continue. Kirk leaves his pod and encounters Spock-Prime. Spock Prime was marooned on Delta Vega to witness the destruction of nearby Vulcan. I'll buy the writers' assertion that what we see in the mind-meld is not literal, and so Spock didn't literally look into the sky and see with his naked eyes the destruction of Vulcan, but the two ARE in the same solar system, right? So why is Delta Vega unaffected by the destruction of Vulcan? And when Spock and Kirk show up at the Starfleet outpost, Scotty and Keenser are both completely unaware of the destruction of Vulcan, and completely surprised by the appearance of Kirk, when they should have basically been preparing to search for him, no?

4. I now get the Kobayashi Maru scene, whereas I hadn't before. Maybe you all understood the scene the first time you saw it, but I was upset that Kirk's reprogramming of the simulation made it so EASY to win. In my mind it made Kirk come off as over-cocky, annoying, and childish, pointing with his finger when his ship was firing torpedoes, and such. I expected him to reprogram the simulation in such a way that his skill and command abilities were able to overcome the scenario. But rewatching it, and the trial scene that followed, I realized that Kirk's goal wasn't to display his command abilities, it was to demonstrate that the test was a cheat, and to show his utter disdain for a rigged test. He was treating the test with the (lack of) respect he thought it deserved. He had realized it was a cheat, and so made his reprogramming a big thumb in the eye of the test-makers. His objective wasn't to win, it was to mock the idea of a no-win scenario. If the test-makers could cheat, then so could he. I now like that scene a lot, whereas before I was disappointed in it.

5. I could listen to Pine's line delivery all day. There are several scenes of verbal combat in the film, where Pine and someone else (usually Spock) are arguing, and shouting over one another. Those scenes must have been hard to rehearse and deliver, but they sparkle. Characters interrupt each other, talk over one another, just like people do in real life. It gave the scenes vitality and punch.

6. Listening, rather than watching, I caught a lot of background lines that I've missed, even watching the film so many times. Bones telling Jim that "a little suffering is good for the soul" as he drags Jim into sickbay was a hoot! And the background chatter on the bridges of the Kelvin and the Enterprise was great, too.

7. Pike REALLY stands out to me as a replacement father-figure for Kirk. Spock Prime tells Kirk that in the original timeline, George Kirk was the inspiration for Jim's entry into Starfleet. In the altered timeline, it was Pike, channeling George Kirk. It works.

Anyway, it was fun to re-listen to the movie this week.

Edited by CrimsonLine

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I would have to think, Crims, that you just set some sort of an A&F record for a person's report on a film -- 100% without the visuals. Nicely done.

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Because I've seen it so often, I could imagine the scenes in my mind as I listened to the audio.

Did your minds' eye edit out the lens flares? :D

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CrimsonLine wrote:

: 2. The science in this movie rankled me more each time I listened to it. A supernova that threatens to destroy a galaxy? Really?

Yeah. Sigh.

: 3. . . . Spock Prime was marooned on Delta Vega to witness the destruction of nearby Vulcan. I'll buy the writers' assertion that what we see in the mind-meld is not literal, and so Spock didn't literally look into the sky and see with his naked eyes the destruction of Vulcan . . .

Bah. The important point here is not how the writers are trying to cover their asses now, but why NERO would have left Spock there if NERO had no reasonable expectation that Spock could have witnessed the destruction of Vulcan from there. So, no, I don't buy the writers' assertion. Because if I did, then we would have to come up with some OTHER reason why Nero left Spock there. And it's hard enough to justify the one reason we were given in the first place as it is.

: . . . but the two ARE in the same solar system, right?

According to Memory Alpha, yeah, they are ("Delta Vega is an icy Class M planet in the Vulcan system. Its orbit carried it near enough to Vulcan that the other planet could be seen from Delta Vega's surface").

: So why is Delta Vega unaffected by the destruction of Vulcan?

The explanation I've heard for this is that, when Vulcan turned into a black hole, it did not change its mass, therefore its gravitational effect on the rest of the system remained unchanged. I guess Delta Vega would have been affected only if it fell within the Vulcan-black-hole's event horizon, which it evidently didn't.

: And when Spock and Kirk show up at the Starfleet outpost, Scotty and Keenser are both completely unaware of the destruction of Vulcan, and completely surprised by the appearance of Kirk, when they should have basically been preparing to search for him, no?

Huh, I don't think I've encountered this plot-hole objection before.

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Huh, I don't think I've encountered this plot-hole objection before.

Here's another one. At the end of the film, Spock Prime and NewSpock encounter each other in the large landing bay at Starfleet. Where did Spock Prime come from? And Keenser (later in the film)? Last we know, they are stuck on Delta Vega. There IS a shuttlecraft on Delta Vega, that Scotty criticizes as "banjaxed" and worthless. Did Spock Prime and Keenser fix the shuttlecraft? Certainly the Enterprise didn't pick them up, since NewSpock meets Spock Prime for the first time in that closing scene.

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But because of its breathless action and spot-on casting, it's still a great movie...

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But because of its breathless action and spot-on casting, it's still a great movie...

Casting is generally good, but I found the action to be snooze-worthy (Abrams has yet to learn how to construct and shoot a decent action sequence). Especially that lousy climax.

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