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BethR

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Dropping Heroes' Dead Weight Could Shock Show Out of Slump:

A TV show that posits a future where everyone has genetically engineered superpowers shouldn't be recycling tired prime-time drama and resurrecting exhausted plots and left-for-dead villains. It should be blowing away expectations. After all, this isn't ER.

But in the first part of Heroes' third season, it sure has felt like we've been lying on a gurney, waiting for last rites.

Note: the article does contain some season 3 spoilers.

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Some random thoughts from episode 40:

* I'm really tired of Claire, and I want Kirsten Bell to come back.

(Elle is actually coming back in next week's episode!)

* I definitely don't like where they've gone with Peter. The retcon on Sylar's ability ("It also gives you *the HUNGER*!") so they could make him a good guy annoyed me. All through season 1 he was evil because he was a selfish psycho with a mommy complex. Now he's an OK guy, he just got a bad hand with his ability. Back to Peter... giving the retconned ability to him seemed stupid, and appears to not had any significance thus far. I know they'll get back to a cool place, I just ask that getting there is also cool.

* I really do enjoy how everyone is morally grey in the series. The Company was bad, Angela Petrelli was bad, now they're both good and we're supposed to believe that Pinehearst are the bad ones. Are they? It's impossible to say.

So far I've liked Season 3, though apparently that's a rare viewpoint if you believe wired. They've kept me pretty well hooked. This most recent twist really annoyed me, but I'm sure they'll work it out somehow.

Edited by theoddone33

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These comments highlight a major problem with a character such as Sylar, whether hero or villain--by this point he's accrued so many random talents that no one can keep track of them. For example, I'm re-watching season 1--among the first talents Sylar steals is "melting metal" (maybe plastic too). Haven't seen him melt anything lately...guess he'll do it when he feels like it, or the story demands it, or a writer remembers about it.

I was happy when Peter used his invisibility in this last episode. That was a good one and they hadn't used it in a while... like they forgot about it even though there were like 2 and a half episodes in season 1 with him acquiring and dealing with it. Sylar does seem to have accumulated a lot of useless talents, like turning things into gold and the melting metal like you mention, and his super memory that never gets used.

The even more disturbing thing is that, given that Sylar killed a ton of people before the timeline of the show started, they could really just make up abilities for him to use if they wanted.

This gives me a thought... I think

the Haitian will be quite involved in the Arthur Petrelli plotline, as he's pretty much the only one that can stop him.

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Heroes was about due for a decent episode, and last night's was definitely that. I had a feeling from last week that this week's episode would be somewhat of a turnaround, and if the series isn't out of the woods, it's definitely moving in the right direction.

I loved the

whole precog/shovel bit with Hiro and Ando

, as well as the explanation for

Hiro stabbing Ando

. I'd like to see the use of time travel minimized in the series, but at least its use in this week's episode was interesting and even humorous at times. I really enjoyed Parkman's interactions with Daphne, if only because it was nice to see at least one hero act like something other than confused or selfish. And I'm really intrigued with Arthur Petrelli,

especially after he "dealt" with Adam

. But I thought the whole

stealing Peter's powers bit

was incredibly stupid -- not even Peter could've been that dumb.

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::spoilers::

So...Arthur Petrelli's power is to steal other people's powers? That's interesting given how his sons accumulate powers: Peter--picks up powers--and Sylar/whateverhisnameis--analyzes neurological basis for powers.

Careful there...

We know that Sylar is Angela's son, but we *don't* know that he's Arthur's son. They had to become enemies somehow.

Don't un-black this if you don't want minor info about future episodes:

We'll actually learn how they became enemies in the episode after next.

Edit: Here's an even bigger spoiler from 2 episodes from now:

Flint (the guy that can summon blue flames) is Meredith's brother, aka Claire's uncle. Now she has 4 uncles in the show!

Edited by theoddone33

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Was Monday's episode the biggest retcon since Dallas? I'm not sure how I feel about it.

And what IS Angela Petrelli's "ability"?

...besides poisoning people

Edited by BethR

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I'm looking for some advice.

I had given up on Heroes, since 3.1/3.2 double ep had, in my mind, betrayed what the show was about, namely, destroying the "Save the cheerleader save the world" mythos. I chose to spend my energies watching superior fare, like, um, Pushing Daisies.

Since PD's demise, I read that the master-writer-mind behind both PD and Heroes 1.x is returning to save Heroes. And he would work as a consultant from some eps after Feb 2, with the final episodes being from his pen. He also recommended the story arcs starting Feb 2.

I also note that there will be, as to be expected, a Heroes 3.x marathon this coming Saturday.

But while I can commit to twelve hours (sans commercials) of what-I-perceive-to-be-mediocre-entertainment, I would much rather ask for an alternative.

For those who stuck it out: are there any eps that I absolutely MUST watch in order to catch up? Is it worth it to just read the plot summaries from televisionwithoutpity and imdb? Or must I be doomed to overstuff my DVR queue?

Any advice is appreciated. Thx.

Nick

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I'd just go with the reading plot summaries. The first part of season 3 was a real snoozer. And it doesn't sound like things are getting better right away, either.

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I dunno - there were some good things about tonight's episode. am thinking I'll watch next week's, too.

Forget the corny lines. The plot actually made sense, which is better than they've done all season (so far, anyway). ;)

I was surprised to find myself actually watching the episode "live," last night, which I haven't done for a while, which means it was able to keep me waiting through the commercials. It was better than I expected from the previews. I'm not a big Bryan Fuller fan--he has his hobby-horses and they can get in the way of a show, IMO, but that's another story. In this :spoilers: interview with Ausiello, he's absolutely right about one thing, at least (italics added):

Are the "Fugitives" episodes leading up to 19 [the episode in which Fuller joined the team] solid?

Yes. Episodes 14, 15 and 16 are amazing. The whole "Fugitives" arc starts out very strongly, and then it gets a little dense in the middle in terms of the mythology. So I came in right at the point where everybody was realizing, "Oh, we're getting too dense here and we need to put faces on stories because there is no face to a formula; there is no face to saving the world." So it's turning this big ship back into a character stream, and everyone on the writing staff shares that desire. We need to get back into a character place, because that's where this story started: Very clean, superhero metaphors to everyday life. That's the path that we're taking. But it is a big ship so it's going to take a little while to turn it.

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Claire was looking at my alma mater, as one of the "best schools," at the beginning of the episode! Mrs. CrimsonLine and I (both of us Hamilton alums) just about jumped out of our chairs! I wonder if any of the writers have a Hamilton connection? The credits at the end said that "promotional consideration" was provided by Smith College, some other place, and "Hamilton University." But the brochures she was looking at were clearly from Hamilton College. Maybe they should have paid a higher amount of "consideration" and they would have been credited correctly?

I thought the episode was good, though. Some clunky dialogue, but entertaining.

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I've been following "Fugitives" pretty closely so far. I'm not ashamed to say it now... the end of the last arc was a mess. It was clear that there was no direction, and when this happens you get retroactive continuity. And there was quite a bit, mostly to get more episodes out of Kristen Bell. She's a very pretty girl, but it would have been better if they'd treated her character and Sylar's characters better. Not to mention Arthur Petrelli... they seemed to have no idea where they were going with that.

But Fugitives is here now. Nevermind that there hasn't been a convincing explanation for Nathan Petrelli's last two or three changes in goal and direction, but now he's the enemy and we have to deal with it. So far the episodes in the Fugutives arc have been pretty weak, but have kept my interest and kept me watching. They need to play up Sylar's relationship with his protege more... I really hope that goes somewhere interesting. The rest of the main characters need to quit this muddled revenge business that doesn't suit them.

Anyway, I have a few predictions, which I'll put in spoiler tags.

* The old bald guy (the Hunter) has a power, and is in fact Sylar's father.

* Noah is currently working with a partner (one of us, one of them)... who is also "Rebel", the invisible man.

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Anyway, I have a few predictions, which I'll put in spoiler tags.

* The old bald guy (the Hunter) has a power, and is in fact Sylar's father.

* Noah is currently working with a partner (one of us, one of them)... who is also "Rebel", the invisible man.

Unless information that's been widely circulated is incorrect, your first prediction is

wrong. Sylar's father will be played by the great John Glover, who played Lionel Luthor on

Smallville

.

But I do believe that

the bald guy has a hidden power

. But that agreement is not based on ANY information...

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Unless information that's been widely circulated is incorrect, your first prediction is

wrong. Sylar's father will be played by the great John Glover, who played Lionel Luthor on

Smallville

.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. That prediction was a bit of a stretch, but I think

Rebel being "Claude Raines"

is actually a pretty good guess.

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Heroes needs to figure out what it means to be a hero, and that involves using one's abilities sacrificially in the service of the powerless. And that applies to the "real world" as much as to a world with super-powers. None of these characters are heroes. They are completely consumed with aiding the already powerful.

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If the characters were more than 1-dimensional, I'd agree about Angela being back. But they're not.

CrimsonLine, I think you got it re. the characters being so self-involved. None of them have done anything significantly helpful for someone else in a long time. Too long.

I'd like to say

except Claire

, but since that character recently acted helpfully toward

two other people with superpowers, rather than helping someone truly helpless

, I'm not sure that's really significant. Unless we buy the whole "oh woe, our Heroes are an oppressed minority" theme of the season so far--which, of course, is a subtext of X-Men as well, so can we complain? Lest anyone think I take discrimination against actual minorities lightly, I point out that in science fiction, this metaphor works a whole lot better when the "oppressors" really are more powerful, either naturally, or socio-culturally, at least at first--e.g., Alien Nation.

And how happy would I be if the cast of Heroes included more major characters who were not Caucasian? And who did not get killed within two episodes?

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IIRC, at least the X-Men help humans out - that's part of what makes the "mutants being hounded" theme more poignant. But I don't read X-Men comics much.

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This last episode was really touching, to me. I like Matt Parkman's character, and I want him to be happy. And now, he's sad. The fairy tale ending was very sweet and sad.

The Hiro/Ando plot is finally moving forward - Hiro without his powers is pretty uninteresting. And it was nice to see someone interacting with just a normal person for once - Angela and Swoozy in the diner.

I suppose the identity of "Rebel" shouldn't have been a surprise - there's only one existing character with the ability to do what Rebel was doing - but it was a surprise to me, and not a pleasant one.

Edited by CrimsonLine

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This last episode was really touching, to me. I like Matt Parkman's character, and I want him to be happy. And now, he's sad. The fairy tale ending was very sweet and sad.

The Hiro/Ando plot is finally moving forward - Hiro without his powers is pretty uninteresting. And it was nice to see someone interacting with just a normal person for once - Angela and Swoozy in the diner.

I suppose the identity of "Rebel" shouldn't have been a surprise - there's only one existing character with the ability to do what Rebel was doing - but it was a surprise to me, and not a pleasant one.

I really enjoyed the last episode, excepting the

ostensible killing off of two characters. I like Brea Grant and I hope she's not done with the show, but I'm guessing she is. Ali Larter's characters haven't been interesting since about halfway through season 2, but it's always kind of sad to see something end... nothing is supposed to end in comics

.

But, with nods back to season 1 I think they're getting back on track. Rebel's identity I had figured out. I made some hairbrained guesses before but it all made sense pretty early into the season. I'm not sure why it was an unpleasant surprise, though. Parkman hasn't been very focused so far this season and it's really been a downer for his character... like they don't know where they're going with him, but they keep him around anyway because he can do cool stuff.

Fun speculation of the night:

If Peter borrows the baby Parkman's power, can he "touch and go" himself to have access to all his old powers? I certainly hope so since his character hasn't been very interesting since he lost them.

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I really enjoyed the last episode, excepting the

ostensible killing off of two characters. I like Brea Grant and I hope she's not done with the show, but I'm guessing she is. Ali Larter's characters haven't been interesting since about halfway through season 2, but it's always kind of sad to see something end... nothing is supposed to end in comics

.

Agreed, and agreed.

I'm not sure why [Rebel's identity] was an unpleasant surprise, though.

Because I've found

Micah

to be an annoying character in virtually every appearance to date. :)

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CrimsonLine - next thing you know, they'll bring Molly back! ;)

:)

Hey! I liked Molly.

Sort of.

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I thought the last two episodes have been really good. Last week's had great interactions between Nathan and Claire, Peter and Angela, and even Sylar and Danko. I'm a little concerned about what they did with Sylar.... we'll see if that works well or not.

It could just be that I really want to like the show in spite of itself, but these past two episodes have been really good, I've felt, in comparison with the last... 20 or so. I hope they carry the momentum and make the next 20 worthwhile.

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Finally, after nearly two season's worth of material (part 1 and 2 of season 3), there's finally an intelligent and gripping plot twist

as Nathan "inhabits" Sylar's body

. It'll be interesting to see if the writers can pull it off and make it meaningful, or if they'll just drown it in a mess of plot twists and unreasonable character alterations, as they have done for many episodes. I wish that some characters would

just stay dead (read: Tracy Strauss)

, but that's how these shows go I suppose. I am excited about the whole Petrelli family, and I think I'll grow into a real disappointment that the writers

killed Nathan off, as he was perhaps my favorite male character in the show

. I have a real love/hate thing with this show.

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I agree, Joel -- will the family

mourn Nathan

-- how? And remember, there were two parts to the "spell", sure, he's

"Nathan" now, but he's also no longer Sylar

.

Huh! I didn't see it this way, especially after the coda, or rather, the teaser for the next chapter or whatever it is, "Redemption." I'm not a one to yell at the TV, generally, but I yelled when

Sylar killed Nathan. I'm sick of this being the Sylar show. Redeem him, fine, but it's starting to feel like Buffy fanfiction written by fans who wuv Spike. Noooo--he's not REALLY a vicious killer, in spite of the fact that he keeps viciously killing people! Weawwy, he's a cuddwy bunny with mommy issues! Just give him a chance!

What I thought happened was

Parkman gave Sylar Nathan's memories, which caused him to take on Nathan's form "permanently," but underneath it all, he's still Sylar. How long before Sylar re-emerges? "Nathan" is already becoming obsessed with clock-repair, the first manifestation of Sylar's ability.

This will not go well.

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I haven't watched the series since the "Villains" arc ended, and yet I felt no compunction reading through all of the spoilers in this thread to see where the series has gone since then. I'm so glad we stopped watching Heroes -- I probably would've thrown something through my TV by now.

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I keep saying I'm goinng to give up on this show, but then I end up at least half-watching it anyway... I wonder if that's true for lots of other people?

Very true for me. I never plan to watch it, it's just on when I happen to be sitting down to turn on the tube. I can't think of any other show like this (24 is on at the same time, but I totally lost patience with a couple epidsodes ago, and the umpteenth time using the phrase "He/she/it is our only chance at stopping the bad guys").

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