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Greg Wolfe

Top 100 2010: General Discussion--**Poll re-opened**

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I'm done. One can't help but think of, "What is spiritual," "What is FILM," "What do I want this list to look like," and "How is everyone else going to rate this," when voting. It is inevitable. And then you end up balancing it against, "What do I love that moves me," with what you haven't seen.

I'm really amazed at what I haven't seen.

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I think I'm going to have a permanent ergonomic injury from clicking "haven't seen" too many times. And I'm proud to admit I gave "Sunshine" a 1.

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It fell squarely under, "What do I want this list to look like?" I think I gave it the same.

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Speaking of the fine line between TV and features: Good lord, nobody nominated the Michael Apted's Up series, did they?

Fantastic series of documentaries. I'm trying to read your post: are you glad that it didn't get nominated?

I'm torn. I agree with Ebert that the project is one of the great film projects of all time. I'd be thrilled to see it on the list, since we're taking Dekalog. But wasn't it made for TV, at first? It's one of those that falls in the gray area, I think.

Now I'm getting flashbacks to how CT Movies invented the "ten most redeeming movies of the year" list five years ago to make up for the fact that The Passion of the Christ didn't earn a spot anywhere on our "ten best movies of the year" list.

Speaking of which...

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Aside from special-effects shots, which fall under the category of post-production, I'm not sure what you mean. It was my understanding that the entire trilogy was essentially filmed before the first film came out. Have you got a link to anything which indicates otherwise?

Having done some brief research (thank you, Wikipedia), it seems you were right. My understanding was different, and clearly erroneous.

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Overstreet wrote:

: But wasn't it made for TV, at first? It's one of those that falls in the gray area, I think.

The IMDb lists every film in the series as made-for-TV, yeah. Though they're not necessarily infallible when it comes to things like this.

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Fun!

I found the decision about weighing "spiritual" and "darn good film" fairly straightforward. If a film was a very strong film (including some which were very strong within their genre), and also strongly concerned with matters I feel are for me particularly significant spiritually, it was a five. If it was a somewhat flawed film with very strong spiritual elements, or a superb film but with spiritual concerns somewhat less evident, it got a four. No significant spiritual stuff, or just plain crappy movie, a one. Etc.

Without planning to do so, I happened to rate 42 films at "5," and another 42 films at "4". Maybe I'll steal a few minutes tomorrow to figure out what other 16 films I'd choose to round out my own personal Top 100.

I was really pleased to see how many strong contenders have been released since our last poll; Adam's Apples, In Bruges, Longford, Son of Man, Sophie Scholl, Silent Light, Ushpizin, L'Enfant, Into Great Silence, Into The Wild, New World, The Notorious Bettie Page, Pan's Labyrinth, Revanche, A Serious Man, Shotgun Stories, Three Burials... It's been a good four years.

I'm curious to know how the tally will run: will the number of people who've seen a film factor into the calculation. For example, say only twenty people have seen Revanche, but all twenty give it a four or a five rating, how will that compare to a film that 200 people have seen and each give only one vote? Presumably the uniformly low rating of the latter film should rank it very low, and the high regard for the former film should place it very high, but mathematically, would the good one tally between 80 and 100 points, while the bad one would rack up a couple hundred votes?

Eager to see the results!

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Fun!

I found the decision about weighing "spiritual" and "darn good film" fairly straightforward. If a film was a very strong film (including some which were very strong within their genre), and also strongly concerned with matters I feel are for me particularly significant spiritually, it was a five. If it was a somewhat flawed film with very strong spiritual elements, or a superb film but with spiritual concerns somewhat less evident, it got a four. No significant spiritual stuff, or just plain crappy movie, a one. Etc.

I followed a similar approach. The key, of course, is "I feel are for me particularly significatn spiritually." Darren took a swipe at Magnolia for supposedly tossing in a few Bible verses as fodder for (correct me if I'm wrong, Darren) suckers who glom onto such stuff as representative of "spiritual" films, but the film, thematically, is about forgiveness, acceptance and judgement. Even if it didn't have Bible verse references sprinkled throughout it, it would still be a grandly spiritual film. (Guess what I rated it?:) )

Without planning to do so, I happened to rate 42 films at "5," and another 42 films at "4".

Did you keep track as you went? I hit submit before I managed to execute some masterful keystroke combination that would result in me losing all the votes entered -- something I've grown pretty good at, unwittingly, over the years, and I still don't know what it is I do that causes posts to suddenly vanish -- so I have no idea how my votes broke down. But I gave an awful lot of "1"s. It doesn't mean those movies suck, just that I didn't find them particularly spiritual in any sense.

I'm curious to know how the tally will run: will the number of people who've seen a film factor into the calculation. For example, say only twenty people have seen Revanche, but all twenty give it a four or a five rating, how will that compare to a film that 200 people have seen and each give only one vote? Presumably the uniformly low rating of the latter film should rank it very low, and the high regard for the former film should place it very high, but mathematically, would the good one tally between 80 and 100 points, while the bad one would rack up a couple hundred votes?

Well, the weighted-vote aspect will factor in heavily. If the 20 who have seen it rated it highly, those votes will carry extra weight against the multiple lesser ratings from less frequent posters, right?

Edited by Christian

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Well, the weighted-vote aspect will factor in heavily. If the 20 who have seen it rated it highly, those votes will carry extra weight against the multiple lesser ratings from less frequent posters, right?

That was my impression. And it seems that the minority that has seen these contemporary classics would be inclined to rate them rather highly anyway. So that may all balance out.

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For those who are interested, we really have found an algorithm to deliver reasonable final results for the Top 100, including the issue of whether a film has received many votes or few votes or "haven't seen it" votes.

I'm told it's a "Bayesian formula" -- and lo and behond, Wikipedia confirms there really is such a beast!

Thanks to Anna and our trusty intern Nate on this.

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VOTE NOW!

Thank you for all your nominations! The Polls are open and will be open until midnight Sunday February 21st. Votes will be tallied and the final list will be posted on February 25th.

To make sure your vote counts towards this list, follow http://www.keysurvey...4/1333/?LQID=1& to our 2010 Arts and Faith Top 100 Voting Poll. You can only vote once.

Um. It is not yet midnight Sunday February 21st. The survey at the link above seems to be closed. Am I missing something?

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VOTE NOW!

Thank you for all your nominations! The Polls are open and will be open until midnight Sunday February 21st. Votes will be tallied and the final list will be posted on February 25th.

To make sure your vote counts towards this list, follow http://www.keysurvey...4/1333/?LQID=1& to our 2010 Arts and Faith Top 100 Voting Poll. You can only vote once.

Um. It is not yet midnight Sunday February 21st. The survey at the link above seems to be closed. Am I missing something?

What SDG said.

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SDG wrote:

: Um. It is not yet midnight Sunday February 21st. The survey at the link above seems to be closed. Am I missing something?

Whoa.

Hmmm. Maybe this is kind of like how "noon" is neither a.m. nor p.m. Maybe "midnight" can belong to either the day BEFORE midnight or the day AFTER midnight, and we assumed "before" while the program assumed "after".

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SDG wrote:

: Um. It is not yet midnight Sunday February 21st. The survey at the link above seems to be closed. Am I missing something?

Whoa.

Hmmm. Maybe this is kind of like how "noon" is neither a.m. nor p.m. Maybe "midnight" can belong to either the day BEFORE midnight or the day AFTER midnight, and we assumed "before" while the program assumed "after".

The way I have been taught, at least: midnight begins a day; 11:59:59p ends a day. (Which is why, at least around here, midnight movie listings in the newspaper are actually listed as 11:59p.)

That said, and even though it would by definition water down my vote, I am absolutely in favor of extending the voting a day or (perhaps more fairly) two days given this confusion.

Dale

Edited by M. Dale Prins

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Doing some reading, however, the consensus on the issue is that there is no consensus on the issue. I assumed that at least computers would be standardized on how they handle midnight, but this is from the ISO 8601 standards:

"Midnight is a special case and can be referred to as both '00:00' and '24:00'. The notation '00:00' is used at the beginning of the day, and is the most frequently used one. At the end of a day use '24:00'. Note that '1981-04-05T24:00' is the same instant as '1981-04-06T00:00.'"

Gee. Thanks guys. Good job on that standardization thing.

Dale

Edited by M. Dale Prins

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That said, and even though it would by definition water down my vote, I am absolutely in favor of extending the voting a day or (perhaps more fairly) two days given this confusion.

I have made the suggestion to the powers that be.

Doing some reading, however, the consensus on the issue is that there is no consensus on the issue.

Gee. Thanks guys. Good job on that standardization thing.

Ironically, I program surveys for (a good part of) my living, and it's precisely to avoid this sort of confusion that I always program surveys to close at 11:59 PM. That said, 12 midnight in my world does mean 24:00, not 00.00.

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oopsie... i am away from the board for a month and i miss a top 100 vote. oh well. another year another opportunity to miss.

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My apologies for the confusion.

We WILL re-open this survey for a short time, unless there's some glitch I'm not aware of that will prevent that.

I can't guarantee that we can re-open the survey for more than a single 24-hour period because of the pressure on us imposed by the PR schedule.

PLEASE check back her later on Sunday evening or perhaps Monday about 10 am Pacific (we should definitely have someone on duty then to fix this).

oopsie... i am away from the board for a month and i miss a top 100 vote. oh well. another year another opportunity to miss.

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Again, we are so sorry for the mix-up.

The survey is open now and will remain open until Monday (tomorrow) at midnight PST (3am Tuesday EST).

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