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Christy E

2010 Arts and Faith Top 100 Films List

251 posts in this topic

Kubrick's complete absence from the list

Oh... ouch.

2001: A Space Odyssey was nominated.

As was A CLOCKWORK ORANGE and BARRY LYNDON. I also believe PATHS OF GLORY was nominated, though I'm not sure about that one.

Edited by Ryan H.

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I forget... how did we end up without any tie votes? Was there a tie-breaking mechanism?

The formula we used gave us numbers with 5-6 decimal points, so there were actually no ties.

I can't see how those two can get low scores. I can see "Haven't Seen It," but that wasn't supposed to figure in outside of percentage-wise, right?

Films that received more votes were weighted more heavily than the others, but this was offset by the fact that high-level posters had more weight than other voters as well.

So, there are probably a few situations where films received a high average rating but not very many voters, and even the heavy weighting of the top posters couldn't bring them up to the top 100.

P.S. Ha ha, Ordet is the only one that didn't move! I think I remember concern that it would be kicked off entirely...I'm glad that didn't happen.

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Per SDG, and while the iron is hot, nominate for next year's list.

M. Dale Prins, you are a god.

Yes, that or I spent my first six years out of college in a position that involved a great deal of manipulating databases. One or the other.

I hope to get the other A&F lists merged into my '08/'10 spreadsheet to do even more data mining. Maybe in the next couple days.

Dale

Edited by M. Dale Prins

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P.S. Ha ha, Ordet is the only one that didn't move! I think I remember concern that it would be kicked off entirely...I'm glad that didn't happen.

I really am happy to see it stay on top, but quite honestly I love the entire Top 20 more than ever before. It will take time for me to really get used to it, but my immediate reaction is: No wankers.

Oh - and re: Ordet. Us crazies who believe that the power of God goes to the crazies are still the ones which love Ordet the most.

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2001: A Space Odyssey was nominated.
As was A CLOCKWORK ORANGE and BARRY LYNDON. I also believe PATHS OF GLORY was nominated, though I'm not sure about that one.

Yes, I didn't finish my thought. I was going to say that 2001: A Space Odyssey had my vote. But then I was interrupted.

Edited by SDG

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82 to 33: Rosetta

Was this not our number 1 film the first or second time we did the Top 100? I think its plummeting ranking, more than anything else, raises an eyebrow about how the voting, or the voters, or the weighting or voting system, has changed.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm OK with the current rating, just concerned that it could fall so far, so fast (relatively speaking).

Edited by Christian

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M. Dale Prins wrote:

: I hope to get the other A&F lists merged into my '08/'10 spreadsheet to do even more data mining. Maybe in the next couple days.

Ah yes, I was going to ask about those other lists -- see which films have gone up, up, up or down, down, down or maybe up, down, up and down, up, down -- but I forgot. Until now.

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M. Dale Prins wrote:

: I hope to get the other A&F lists merged into my '08/'10 spreadsheet to do even more data mining. Maybe in the next couple days.

Ah yes, I was going to ask about those other lists -- see which films have gone up, up, up or down, down, down or maybe up, down, up and down, up, down -- but I forgot. Until now.

Tomorrow would be good. Or Friday morning. Because I have a Friday blog post due at NCRegister.com.

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All right, all right. I'll see what I can do this evening, assuming E.E. behaves herself.

Dale

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Wait, wait. So how many lists are there? I have the 2004 list, 2005 list, and what calls itself the 2008/2009 list (which is what I'm comparing to above). But there also seems to be a 2006 list, and that list seems to be identical to the 2008/2009 list. So was there actually a 2008/2009 list, or was 2006 the last list that we had?

Dale

Edited by M. Dale Prins

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Wait, wait. So how many lists are there? I have the 2004 list, 2005 list, and what calls itself the 2008/2009 list (which is what I'm comparing to above). But there also seems to be a 2006 list, and that list seems to be identical to the 2008/2009 list. So was there actually a 2008/2009 list, or was 2006 the last list that we had?

Good question. I asked myself the same thing while working on the press release today. Who's the official board historian?

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Hmmm. I can't get the "2006" list to load right now. But I note that the 2004 list seems to be in alphabetical order, rather than any sort of ranking -- so while we can certainly include it when charting which films have appeared and/or disappeared from the lists, that particular year is no good to us in terms of charting how films have moved up or down the list. For whatever that's worth.

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Tomorrow would be good. Or Friday morning. Because I have a Friday blog post due at NCRegister.com.

I don't think Greg wants us writing publicly about the list yet.

MDP, I've emailed you my spreadsheet compiling the four different A&F lists. You still at yahoo?

How come The House Is Black makes the cut? It's only 20 minutes long.

Here's the complete list of films which have appeared on any previous list, which did not appear in 2010. I personally would choose most of these over many of the new entries (definitely a drift toward Sight & Sound), but you'll hear no qualms from me about Son Of Man (!), Ushpizin, Silent Light, A Serious Man, Into Great Silence, L'Enfant, The New World, Brakhage, and the new Dardennes. Need to see Ostrov, Beau Travail, and the Bergmans. (Bergmen?)

13 Conversations About One Thing (2001, USA, Sprecher) 2004, 2005, 2006

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968, USA, Kubrick) 2004, 2005

Addiction, The (1995, USA, Ferrara) 2004, 2005, 2006

Amadeus (1984, USA, Forman) 2004, 2005

American Beauty (1999, USA, Mendes) 2004

Argent, l' ("Money" 1983, France, Bresson) 2006

Bad Lieutenant (1992, USA, Ferrara) 2004

Believer, The (2001, USA, Bean) 2005

Big Kahuna, The (1999, USA, Swanbeck) 2004, 2005, 2006

Black Robe (1991, Canada/Australia, Beresford) 2006

Blade Runner (1982, USA, Scott) 2004

Changing Lanes (2002, USA, Michell) 2004

Code Unknown ("Code inconnu" 2000, France/Germany/Romania, Michael Haneke) 2004

Dead Man Walking (1995, USA, Robbins) 2004, 2005, 2006

Dogma (1999, USA, Smith) 2004

Dogville (2003, Denmark/Sweden/France/Norway/Netherlands/Finland/Germany/USA/UK, von Trier) 2004, 2005, 2006

Dolce Vita, La ("The Sweet Life" 1960, Italy/France, Fellini) 2004

Elephant Man (1980, USA, Lynch) 2004, 2005, 2006

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The (2004, USA, Gondry) 2004, 2005

Europa 51 ("The Greatest Love" 1952, Italy, Rossellini) 2005

Fearless (1993, USA, Weir) 2004, 2006

Fiddler On The Roof (1971, USA, Jewison) 2006

Fight Club (1999, USA, Fincher) 2004

Gospel of John, The (2003, Canada/UK, Philip Saville) 2005, 2006

Grand Canyon (1991, USA, Kasdan) 2004

Groundhog Day (1993, USA, Ramis) 2004,

Hell House (2001, USA, Ratliff) 2004, 2006

Henry V (1989, UK, Branagh) 2004

Hiding Place, The (1975, USA, Collier) 2005, 2006

Hotel Rwanda (2004, USA/UK/Italy/South Africa, George) 2005, 2006

In America (2002, Ireland/UK, Sheridan) 2005

Jean de Florette / Manon of the Spring ("Manon des sources" 1986, France/Switzerland/Italy, Berri) 2004, 2005, 2006

Jesus Of Nazareth (1977, UK/Italy, Zeffirelli) 2004, 2005, 2006

Koyaanisqatsi ("Life Out Of Balance" 1982, USA, Reggio) 2006

Last Days of Disco, The (1998, USA, Stillman) 2004

Last Temptation of Christ, The (1988, USA, Scorsese) 2004, 2005, 2006

Life Is Beautiful ("La Vita e bella" 1997, Italy, Benigni) 2004, 2005

Life Of Brian, The (199, UK, Jones) 2004

Lilies Of The Field (1963, USA, Nelson) 2005, 2006

Lord Of The Rings (2001/2002/2003, New Zealand / USA, Jackson) 2004, 2005

Luther (2003, Germany, Till) 2005, 2006

Man Without A Past, The ("Mies vailla menneisyytta" 2002, Finland, Kaurismaki) 2004

Matrix, The (1999, Australia/USA, Wachowski) 2004

Millions (2004, UK, Boyle) 2005, 2006

Miracle Maker, The (2000, UK/USSR, Hayes & Sokolov) 2004, 2005, 2006

Miserables, Les (1998, UK/Germany/USA, August) 2005, 2006

Mission, The (1986, UK, Joffe) 2004, 2005, 2006

Molokai: The Story of Father Damien (AKA "Father Damien", "Moloka: The Forbidden Island" 1999, Belgium/Netherlands/Australia, Cox) 2006

Most ("The Bridge" 2003, USA / Czech Republic, Garabedian) 2006

Nazarin (1958, Mexico, Bunuel) 2005, 2006

Night Of The Hunter (1955, USA, Charles Laughton) 2004, 2005, 2006

Not Of This World ("Fuori dal mondo" 1999, Italy, Piccioni) 2004, 2005, 2006

On The Waterfront (1954, USA, Kazan) 2004

Passion of the Christ, The (2004, USA, Gibson) 2004, 2005, 2006

Peter and Paul (1981, USA, Day) 2004, 2005, 2006

Places In The Heart (1984, USA, Benton) 2006

Prince Of Egypt (1998, USA, Chapman / Hickner / Wells) 2004

Romero (1989, USA, Duigan) 2005, 2006

Sansho The Bailiff ("Sansho Dayu" 1954, Japan, Mizoguchi) 2004, 2005, 2006

Schindler's List (1993, USA, Spielberg) 2004, 2005, 2006

Secrets and Lies (1996, UK/France, Leigh) 2004, 2006

Shadowlands (1993, UK, Attenborough) 2004, 2005, 2006

Shawshank Redemption, The (1994, USA, Darabont) 2004, 2005

Signs (2002, USA, Shyamalan) 2004

Silence, The ("Tystnaden" 1963, Sweden, Bergman) 2005

Sixth Sense, The (1999, USA, Shyamalan) 2004

Songs From The Second Floor ("Sanger fran andra vaningen" 2000, Sweden/Norway/Denmark, Andersson) 2004

Star Wars (1977, USA, Lucas) 2004

Stevie (2002, USA, James) 2004, 2005, 2006

Stromboli (1949, Italy, Rossellini) 2006

Sweet Hereafter, The (1997, Canada, Egoyan) 2004, 2006

Taste Of Cherry, A (1997, Iran/France, Kiarostami) 2005, 2006

To End All Wars (2002, USA, Cunningham) 2005, 2006

To Kill A Mockingbird (1962, USA, Mulligan) 2005, 2006

Trip To Bountiful, The (1985, USA, Masterson) 2005

Truman Show, The (1998, USA, Weir) 2004

Ugetsu (1953, Japan, Mizoguchi) 2005

Unforgiven (1992, USA, Eastwood) 2004, 2005

Vanya On 42nd Street (1994, USA, Malle / Gregory) 2004

Waking Life (2001, USA, Linklater) 2004, 2006

Werckmeister Harmonies, The ("Werckmeister harmoniak" 2000, Hungary/Italy/Germany/France, Tarr / Hranitzky) 2004, 2005, 2006

Wit (2001, USA, Nichols) 2005, 2006

Witness (1984, USA, Weir) 2004

Year Of Living Dangerously, The (1982, Australia, Weir) 2004, 2006

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I love that Maya Deren made the list. That's so rad. Also, I guess one of these days I should get around to watching Babette's Feast.

I am pretty stoked Maya Deren made the list as well. Babette's Feast, Darren come on now, get a move on.

My first reaction to the unveiled list was, "This is great. Best list we've ever made." I am so glad to see so many in agreement. Well done everyone. Our conversations are certainly paying off.

The Last Laugh by Murnau just popped into my head, I would like to see this on the list. And I will continue to petition A Pure Formality until A&F is no more.

I would also like to add my thanks to the Image team for all the hard work and perseverance. We appreciate it and I hope you know how valued you are.

Edited by Thom

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Hmmm. I can't get the "2006" list to load right now. But I note that the 2004 list seems to be in alphabetical order, rather than any sort of ranking -- so while we can certainly include it when charting which films have appeared and/or disappeared from the lists, that particular year is no good to us in terms of charting how films have moved up or down the list. For whatever that's worth.

That's right, the first year wasn't ranked.

And yes, the third poll was 2006, not 2008/09. The list was posted August 6 2006 - though the list itself no longer leads off the thread, presumably deleted when our former webmaster departed?

Perhaps the 08/09 confusion slipped in because the nomination process for a fourth list was initiated, but the poll wasn't completed.

Edited by Ron Reed

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Interesting how 9 of the top 21 films are from the 1950s:

1. Word, The ("Ordet"), 1955, Carl Theodor Dreyer

9. Early Summer ("Bakushû"), 1951, Yasujiro Ozu

11. Diary of a Country Priest, The("Le Journal D'un Cure De Campagne"), 1951, Robert Bresson

13. Seventh Seal, The ("Det Sjunde Inseglet"), 1957, Ingmar Bergman

14. To Live ("Ikiru"), 1952, Akira Kurosawa

17. Apu Trilogy (Pather Panchali, Aparajito, Apu Sansar), 1955/56/59, Satyajit Ray

18. Floating Weeds ("Ukigusa"), 1959, Yasujiro Ozu

20. Burmese Harp, The, 1956, Kon Ichikawa

21. Tokyo Story ("Tokyo monogatari"), 1953, Yasujiro Ozu

What a decade.

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Some stats.

...

By director:

7: Ingmar Bergman

6: Andrei Tarkovsky

5: Robert Bresson, Jean-Pierre & Luc Dardenne, Yasujiro Ozu

3: Carl Theodor Dreyer, Akira Kurosawa

2: Paul Thomas Anderson, Jean-Luc Godard, Abbas Kiarostami, Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Terrence Malick, F.W. Murnau, Eric Rohmer, Roberto Rossellini, Jacques Tati, Wim Wenders

Dale

This is a fine list, but way too much Bergman on for me. Sorry. I suspect some voters went down the list & automatically voted for films with "Bergman" next to them because "OMG! It's a Bergman film! I haven't seen it since 1999, but I'm sure it was Great! and Spiritual!"? I'd gladly trade at least four Bergmans and maybe a Tarkovsky for some of the missing films. And please, no "Sight and Sound" as a source list!

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du Garbandier wrote:

: Interesting how 9 of the top 21 films are from the 1950s:

And all of them foreign, too. You'd almost think nothing of lasting value had been produced in the United States back then.

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Ron: Got the spreadsheet, and it'll help quite a bit in crosschecking (although I still need to put in the rankings for each of the films). It also confirms what I was guessing: There wasn't a list between 2006 and 2010.

Dale

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Ah, I can attach an Excel file to the thread. So here's my tally of the four lists so far. (I didn't include the rankings on previous lists because I didn't much care about them.)

A&F 100 2010.xls

Edited by Ron Reed

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Here's a thought for the official listing of films, and the website pages that will accompany them.

I understand always listing the English language title first for the sake of consistency, but I would like the editors to consider changing that up a bit. In instances where the commonly used title is the original foreign title, I would suggest using that title instead.

For example, "Ikiru" is just plain called "Ikiru" everywhere on the planet, whether the viewer is Japanese or North American or Martian. Yes, the English translation is "To Live," but nobody anywhere calls it that, and I sincerely doubt whether there's been a theatrical or DVD release using the English translation instead of the original title. (Interestingly, "Au hasard Balthazar" is listed by its original French title, rather than in English translation: maybe just because it's so awkward to translate? But if we're going for consistency, It ought to be "By Chance, Balthazar." Also, "La Promesse" is listed in its original language, which I would completely agree with: does anyone ever call it "The Promise"? Similarly, "Beau Travail"? Ushpizin?

Other films I think should perhaps be listed by their original title;

Ordet (definitely)

L'Enfant (maybe?)

Ostrov (maybe?)

I'm really surprised The New World rates so far below Days of Heaven. I would have expected the opposite.

The New World certainly has more explicit religious content, but Days of Heaven is clearly the superior film. (Hmm, have we had this conversation before?....) ; )

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Tomorrow would be good. Or Friday morning. Because I have a Friday blog post due at NCRegister.com.

I don't think Greg wants us writing publicly about the list yet.

From my perspective, I do think it might be best to hold off until we have the "official" list ready to go with the updated page(s) and announcement. But... Any press is good press, right? And despite many noted concerns among ourselves at this point, it's still a darn fine list.

I love that Maya Deren made the list. That's so rad. Also, I guess one of these days I should get around to watching Babette's Feast.

I am pretty stoked Maya Deren made the list as well. Babette's Feast, Darren come on now, get a move on.

Me too. In fact, I'm getting close to 50% unseen here. But I have read a great deal on most of those I've yet to see... :P

Hmmm. I can't get the "2006" list to load right now. But I note that the 2004 list seems to be in alphabetical order, rather than any sort of ranking -- so while we can certainly include it when charting which films have appeared and/or disappeared from the lists, that particular year is no good to us in terms of charting how films have moved up or down the list. For whatever that's worth.

And yes, the third poll was 2006, not 2008/09. The list was posted August 6 2006 - though the list itself no longer leads off the thread, presumably deleted when our former webmaster departed?

Perhaps the 08/09 confusion slipped in because the nomination process for a fourth list was initiated, but the poll wasn't completed.

This was my recollection. I believe the 2008 list was posted retroactively as a pick up from the 2006 list. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. My question then - does this make it "official?"

Some stats.

...

By director:

7: Ingmar Bergman

6: Andrei Tarkovsky

5: Robert Bresson, Jean-Pierre & Luc Dardenne, Yasujiro Ozu

3: Carl Theodor Dreyer, Akira Kurosawa

2: Paul Thomas Anderson, Jean-Luc Godard, Abbas Kiarostami, Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Terrence Malick, F.W. Murnau, Eric Rohmer, Roberto Rossellini, Jacques Tati, Wim Wenders

Dale

This is a fine list, but way too much Bergman on for me. Sorry. I suspect some voters went down the list & automatically voted for films with "Bergman" next to them because "OMG! It's a Bergman film! I haven't seen it since 1999, but I'm sure it was Great! and Spiritual!"? I'd gladly trade at least four Bergmans and maybe a Tarkovsky for some of the missing films. And please, no "Sight and Sound" as a source list!

Yes, Bergman and Tarkovsky are very well represented. I have no specific complaints against any of their films that have made the list, but each are very well represented. As Greg noted, we have 370(?) nominated films. For 2011, in addition to any newly nominated films, maybe it would be wise to prune some of the older nominations. Also, maybe a director cap? If a director has 4-5 films that make the list, maybe they don't need any more mentioned - they're clearly a director whose works we recommend without just listing half their filmography. We have a full year, maybe we can enact some sort of paring process.

Edited by Darryl A. Armstrong

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Okay. Everyhing's in the database. I'll start spewing out some facts of vague interest over the next day or so.

Forty films have been on the A&F 100 all four times. Here are those 40 films, sorted by average placement in the three lists where we ranked the films, with 2010's rank acting as tiebreaker. Parentheticals are ranks in 2010, 2006, and 2005 respectively.

1. Ordet (1, 1, 6)

2. The Decalogue (2, 7, 3)

3. The Passion of Joan of Arc (4, 6, 2)

4. The Son (5, 2, 9)

5. Babette’s Feast (3, 8, 8)

6. The Diary of a Country Priest (11, 5, 4)

7. The Gospel According to Matthew (10, 4, 7)

8. Au Hasard Balthazar (6, 11, 5)

9. Andrei Rublev (8, 10, 18)

10. Ikiru (14, 13, 10)

11. The Seventh Seal (13, 12, 14)

12. Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (7, 25, 20)

13. A Man Escaped (29, 9, 16)

14. The Apostle (32, 16, 11)

15. Three Colors Trilogy (15, 17, 28)

16. Stalker (30, 22, 12)

17. Wings of Desire (12, 28, 30)

18. A Man for All Seasons (31, 27, 19)

19. Day of Wrath (42, 29, 24)

20. La Promesse (44, 24, 32)

21. Wild Strawberries (35, 32, 41)

22. Magnolia (58, 23, 27)

23. The Mirror (16, 62, 44)

24. Jesus of Montreal (88, 19, 17)

25. My Night at Maud's (23, 73, 31)

26. Chariots of Fire (69, 37, 21)

27. Tender Mercies (73, 26, 36)

28. Tokyo Story (21, 57, 64)

29. Ponette (56, 54, 38)

30. It's A Wonderful Life (45, 53, 52)

31. The Straight Story (54, 43, 59)

32. Sacrifice, The (86, 35, 46)

33. Yi Yi (83, 30, 58)

34. Solaris (49, 67, 57)

35. Close-Up (34, 75, 82)

36. The Bicycle Thief (28, 87, 81)

37. Open City (80, 48, 73)

38. Breaking the Waves (99, 59, 50)

39. Derzu Uzala (70, 83, 67)

40. The Wind Will Carry Us (57, 97, 85)

Dale

Edited by M. Dale Prins

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One more before I go to bed. The complete list of films that were on our first Top 100 list and our just-released Top 100 list, but neither of the lists in between:

Days of Heaven (no. 36 in 2010)

Punch-Drunk Love (no. 85 in 2010)

Dale, who takes requests from the audience (and will do PTC's tomorrow)

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