Adding a Top 10 List?

[Greg Wolfe]

So here's a thought: we got a lot of great press with the 2010 list.

But if we do a Top 100 list every year -- even if the composition of the list changes by, say, 20-30 films -- is this enough to keep the whole exercise fresh?

At least for the outside world? (Seems like we could endlessly discuss the small, marginal changes in the list.)

This led me to wonder: should we consider adding a Top 10 list based on some more narrow criterion -- to generate a little extra interest in what we're up to?

Maybe we could select a different theme/criterion for a flanking Top 10 list every year.

(No, I don't really have great ideas for particular Top 10 lists, but I'm trusting that others will. "Top 10 Movies with Nuns?" See? Told you.)

I can see many objections: why isn't the main list interesting enough, don't we have enough to think about, who gets to choose this top 10 list and how?

Could be a stupid idea. I'm willing for everyone to say No in unison.

I just thought I'd ask.

[Darren H]

I like this idea a lot. Depending on the topic, I'd think we could even make it a Top 20 or 25. I've always thought the Top 100 list should be revisited every five years.

[Andrew]

I like this idea, too. I would think there are plenty of directions in which this could go: best narratives of spiritual transformation, top 25 depictions of characters facing death, favorite movies featuring sock puppets, A&F Top 25 Japanese films, etc. Lots of options.

Doing the overall Top 100 list maybe every 3 years would help keep it fresh for us and for the general public, too.

[Tyler]

favorite movies featuring sock puppets

We could expand that to include weird puppetry in general. I know I've always wanted to see a list with Jan Svankmajer, Spike Jonze, and Hsiao-hsien Hou on it.

[Andrew]

favorite movies featuring sock puppets

We could expand that to include weird puppetry in general. I know I've always wanted to see a list with Jan Svankmajer, Spike Jonze, and Hsiao-hsien Hou on it.

And Shinoda's Double Suicide makes very cool use of classic Japanese bunraku puppetry, and Truffaut's 400 Blows has a Punch & Judy scene. So we've got a Top 5 already!

[Ryan H.]

Yeah, this idea could be good. Depends entirely on what the topic is, though.

[M. Leary]

This is a great idea. I am really looking forward to the conversation it requires.

[Greg Wolfe]

We've been assuming, perhaps naively, that we would do the Top 100 every year.

But should we?

Andrew suggests every three years.

Maybe before we decide on doing Top 10s or Top 25s we should decide how often we do the Top 100.

[Tyler]

We've been assuming, perhaps naively, that we would do the Top 100 every year.

But should we?

Andrew suggests every three years.

Maybe before we decide on doing Top 10s or Top 25s we should decide how often we do the Top 100.

A new top 100 every year seems like overkill to me. Doing smaller, more theme-directed lists in the years between a big list could be fun, though.

[Ryan H.]

We've been assuming, perhaps naively, that we would do the Top 100 every year.

But should we?

Yeah, I think so.

[Darrel Manson]

I think every year is too much. Even if I'm not that fond of the current edition, how much has changed (either in the films available or the makeup of the voters)? Any real change would probably come from tweaking the process.

Top 10's in some category could make a nice filler in the in between years.

[Buckeye Jones]

I think I agree with the general sentiment that updating the T100 every couple of years (3 at the longest stretch) makes sense--assuming the goal is to celebrate great cinema that wrestles with spiritual matters and the great Christian criticism that often comes alongside it. Really, if you think about it, one possible outcome for the list is for folks to go watch those films. Two to three years is a good amount of time for people to engage with a list like this as a viewer.

I like the idea of the Top 10s to celebrate certain aspects of the current list. I could see that as a more-often-than-once-a-year thing.

I would still like to do the T100 this year, because I think the second go around under Image's auspices would help sort out some of the things that seem a little off this year.

[Peter T Chattaway]

Darrel Manson wrote:

: Any real change would probably come from tweaking the process.

Or from serious turnover in the active A&F membership, if such turnover exists.

At any rate, yeah, I too think that doing the Top 100 every two or three years would be better than doing it every year, with theme-specific Top 10 or Top 25 lists filling the intervening years. For whatever that's worth.

[Ryan H.]

As far as topic goes, I'd be interested in seeing what a faith-based community such as ours would suggest are the best thrillers and/or horror films; it would push us away from the set of films that this community tends to draw upon for the A&F top 100, and would likely result in some fairly thought-provoking discussion about the place of such films and which ones truly succeed as rich, compelling works of art. That faith-based communities tend not to spend a great deal of time on this category of film makes the notion even more appealing.

The flexibility of these categories also allows us to talk about some interesting films, including such interesting films as Laughton's NIGHT OF THE HUNTER, Dreyer's VAMPYR, Roeg's DON'T LOOK NOW, Herzog's NOSFERATU: PHANTOM DER NACHT, Hitchcock's PSYCHO, Whales' FRANKENSTEIN, Scott's ALIEN, or Friedkin's THE EXORCIST. And then, of course, each of us could make the case for other, unusual films as well; I've argued in the past that APOCALYPSE NOW's proper genre is "horror," and one, I suspect, could make the case for Polanski's MACBETH or Lynch's ERASERHEAD.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Ryan H.

[Anders]

As far as topic goes, I'd be interested in seeing what a faith-based community such as ours would suggest are the best thrillers and/or horror films; it would push us away from the set of films that this community tends to draw upon for the A&F top 100, and would likely result in some fairly thought-provoking discussion about the place of such films and which ones truly succeed as rich, compelling works of art. That faith-based communities tend not to spend a great deal of discussion on this category of film makes the notion even more appealing.

The flexibility of these categories also allows us to talk about some interesting films, anything from Laughton's NIGHT OF THE HUNTER to Dreyer's VAMPYR to Roeg's DON'T LOOK NOW to Herzog's NOSFERATU: PHANTOM DER NACHT to a stalwart classic like Hitchcock's PSYCHO, Whales' FRANKENSTEIN, Scott's ALIEN, or Friedkin's THE EXORCIST. And then, of course, each of us could make the case for other, unusual films as well; I've argued in the past that APOCALYPSE NOW's proper genre is "horror," and one, I suspect, could make the case for Polanski's MACBETH or Lynch's ERASERHEAD.

I think this is a great suggestion.

[Andrew]

So do I.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Andrew

[David Smedberg]

This is why we Americans never want to amend the Constitution, we're afraid of where it might go...

I think we should keep it simple. If 100 is too many to do each year, then we should reduce the number of movies on the list -- permanently -- perhaps to 25(?). But in my opinion we should keep voting each year, because each year I think the debate furthers the debate at large on this forum. The list is really only half the point, at most -- the discussion is at least as great a good as the result.

P.S. I am not opposed to reform in the way that we nominate/vote. For instance, I think it would be salutary to require a nomination to be seconded, and both the nominator and the "second"-er to write a sentence or two why they did so.

Just my 2 cents.

[Persona]

Pi's proper genre is horror, and The Addiction should be considered for such a list.

[Thom]

Pi's proper genre is horror, and The Addiction should be considered for such a list.

You know this isn't the voting thread, right? I mean, just because you have Pi on the brain every post doesn't have to include it.

I am with the majority on the Top 100 list. I think it best to vote and possibly update/change it every 2, 3, or 5 years. It makes the most sense. This provides time for interested voters/members/others to view films on the list. Plus, the longing for the "new" list every <blank> years will help keep people interested.

I am also on board for Top 10/20/25 lists during the periods when the Top 100 will not be voted on. Maybe a couple lists every year: one by theme and a top 10 of the previous year.

[Ryan H.]

I think this is a great suggestion.

So do I.

Cheers. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks an A&F list of horror films would be pretty neat.

[Greg Wolfe]

There is certainly enough feeling in the community that the top 100 list could be improved to justify doing it again in 2011.

Maybe after that we go to every two years?

[Ryan H.]

There is certainly enough feeling in the community that the top 100 list could be improved to justify doing it again in 2011.

Very much agreed.

Maybe after that we go to every two years?

Sounds good to me.

[Darryl A. Armstrong]

I like the idea of the top 100 list being updated every 2-3 years. I think a revised list of 100 films every year will be a little overwhelming and also waters down the list itself - if we're presenting a top 100 list, why would it change so often?

How often are the AFI lists updated?

I'm not saying it shouldn't be tweaked, but I don't think it's a great idea to do so yearly.

[Darrel Manson]

Horror would be good, but I'd probably abstain since I don't have a great appreciation of the genre.

Other suggestions: Top 4 Jesus movies (since there are 4 canonical gospels). On this I think the debate over Last Temptation and/or TPOTC would be worth the price. I'd be willing to say if one gets in the other gets it as a balance.

Top Kid movies. Which one Miyazaki would we include? What are the criteria for a good kid's movie.

Best films for All Saints Day.

Best Buddhist Films (I really want to find a place where we recognize Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter . . . and Spring.)

Best Films about Aging

[Andrew]

Horror would be good, but I'd probably abstain since I don't have a great appreciation of the genre.

Other suggestions: Top 4 Jesus movies (since there are 4 canonical gospels). On this I think the debate over Last Temptation and/or TPOTC would be worth the price. I'd be willing to say if one gets in the other gets it as a balance.

Top Kid movies. Which one Miyazaki would we include? What are the criteria for a good kid's movie.

Best films for All Saints Day.

Best Buddhist Films (I really want to find a place where we recognize Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter . . . and Spring.)

Best Films about Aging

I really like your suggestions.

'Best Buddhist Films' - I really need to see 'Spring...' It would be great, too, if a list such as this got more people to see Juzo Itami's 'Diabyonin (Last Dance).'