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Peter T Chattaway

Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

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Links to our threads on other DC Cinematic Universe films Man of Steel (2013), Suicide Squad (2016), Wonder Woman (2017), Justice League (2017), Aquaman (2018) and Wonder Woman 2 (2019), as well as the in-development Flashpoint, Shazam!, Black Adam, Cyborg, Green Lantern, Nightwing, Batgirl, Gotham City Sirens and Justice League Dark movies and the not-yet-dated Superman, Batman and Justice League sequels.

Links to our threads on the Superman 1.0 and 2.0 films Superman II (1980) and Superman Returns (2006).

Links to our threads on the Batman 2.0 films Batman Begins (2005), The Dark Knight (2008) and The Dark Knight Rises (2012).

Link to our thread on the Green Lantern 1.0 film Green Lantern (2011),

Links to our threads on The Lego Movie (2014), The Lego Batman Movie (2017) and The Lego Movie 2 (2018), all of which feature Lego versions of DC superheroes.

Link to our thread on Superman Vs Batman, which was announced in 2002 but never made.

Link to our thread on Hollywoodland (2006), which also featured Ben Affleck, Diane Lane and a Superman costume.

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Comic-Con 2013: ‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’
Warner Bros. is about to bring together two of its most iconic heroes: Superman and Batman will unite in a new film, the follow-up to “Man of Steel,” set for release in 2015.
According to two sources with knowledge of the movie, Warner Bros. intends to announce the news at its Comic-Con International panel Saturday morning. Said a Warner Bros. spokesperson, “We don’t comment on rumors regarding these properties.”
“Man of Steel” director Zack Snyder is expected to reunite with screenwriter David S. Goyer and star Henry Cavill for the new film. It’s unlikely Christian Bale will step back into the bat suit, as the actor has indicated publicly that he has moved on from his days as Bruce Wayne. . . .
Los Angeles Times, July 20

Edited by Peter T Chattaway

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Next in the series: Superman, Batman, and You Know--That Other One. No, Not Spider-Man, Since We Still Don't Have the Rights, but Still Another Superhero.

Edited by Tyler

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Spider-Man is a Marvel creation (therefore an extremely unlikely mash-up anyway) whose movie rights are owned by Sony, but a Justice League movie could include Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, etc.

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Spider-Man is a Marvel creation (therefore an extremely unlikely mash-up anyway) whose movie rights are owned by Sony, but a Justice League movie could include Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, etc.

Oh, that's right. I knew one franchise wanted Spidey in their movie but couldn't have him, but forgot which one.

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Well, DC wants the success of Marvel's shared universe without doing the commitment that comes with it.

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Well, I'm no big fan of Marvel's films. I liked MAN OF STEEL more than any of the Marvel superhero films, save HULK (which wasn't really a product of the existing Marvel studio, anyway). That said, I don't think JUSTICE LEAGUE will work, and agree that fast-tracking the project is likely to cause a lot of problems.

 

But as an immediate next step, a Batman/Superman film (WORLD'S FINEST?) is logical, regardless of whether or not the whole game plan works. It's logical because they intend this incarnation of the DC universe to *begin* with Superman, with his actions in MAN OF STEEL providing the catalyst for all that follows (Goyer and Snyder were pretty clear about this in interviews), so it would make sense that they would make a film that explores those aftershocks and feature another superhero other than Superman. The conflict between the characters is easy to imagine, since Batman/Wayne, with his skepticism and paranoia, may take Luthor's side against Superman initially (at least, this is what happens in Azzarello's LEX LUTHOR miniseries, which I'm suspecting will lay some of the groundwork for this next film). Furthermore, they don't want to rehash any sort of Batman origin story/set-up story, since Nolan's films did that so vividly and so recently, so this allows for a new context in which the Batman/Wayne character can be introduced to audiences.

Edited by Ryan H.

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Would it be Wayne as Batman, though? If they're going to make both series exist in the same universe, shouldn't it be John Blake?

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Goyer and Snyder repeatedly stated that the universe of MAN OF STEEL has no relation to the universe of the Nolan Batman films (Nolan insisted that his Batman films remain separate), and that, in the MAN OF STEEL universe, Superman is the first superhero to ever appear, and the events of MAN OF STEEL eventually result in the appearance of other superheroes across the globe.

 

So whatever Batman appears in the MAN OF STEEL follow-up will be neither Bale's Wayne nor John Blake, but a wholly new version of the character.

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I know multiple continuities coexisting independently of one another isn't new for superheroes, but that still sounds lame. Why have Nolan involved if you're not going to build on his Dark Knight world? (Or why leave sequel/spinoff possibilities open at the end of The Dark Knight Rises?)

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Why have Nolan involved if you're not going to build on his Dark Knight world? (Or why leave sequel/spinoff possibilities open at the end of The Dark Knight Rises?)

Well, Nolan was there to provide quality control, not to continue his franchise, which he openly regards as a closed book (the John Blake stuff was there for thematic reasons, not necessarily to set-up a sequel, though speculation regarding a sequel/spin-off was unavoidable).

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ComicBook.com:

During the Superman 75th Anniversary panel, Man Of Steel writer David S. Goyer said, “So over in Hall H at the Warner Bros.–I guess most people know now–at the end of the Warner Bros. panel, Zack came out and he brought Harry Lennix, who plays General Swanwick in Man of Steel and we–actually, Harry read a bit from [The Dark Knight Returns] and so the next film we’re making, we’re already in pre-production, comes out in summer of 2015 and it’s–we’re actually not sure whether the title is Superman vs. Batman or Batman vs. Superman but yes, it’s–that rematch, that combination, the two guys onscreen and that’s happening.”

David S. Goyer only gave two examples of what the title could be, so we did a little research, figuring that Warner Bros. would likely have registered the domain name that they would want to use for the title. It turns out that Warner Bros. owns both SupermanVsBatman.com and BatmanVsSuperman.com, which could be used to protect comic book titles as well as movie titles. However, when we added movie to the end, we found out that Warner Bros. had only registered BatmanVsSupermanMovie.com but not SupermanVsBatmanMovie.com.

We also checked a couple more possibilities just to be on the safe side, and Warner Bros also hadn’t bothered to register SupermanAndBatmanMovie.com or BatmanAndSupermanMovie.com. Someone had registered the domain name WorldsFinestMovie.com after the announcement was made, but it was a private registration, which likely isn’t Warner Bros. Warner Bros. would likely have registered that name before they announced it if they planned to use it.

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The thing is, The Dark Knight Returns is one of the worst interpretations of Superman ever.  And considering that they ended Man of Steel on a note where Superman says he is here for us, but is not ourlap dog...going to a version of Superman that is the President's lap dog, senselessly devoted to government for your announcement seems rather bizarre and poorly thought out.

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Certainly... but there are so many team ups of the two to draw from...so they choose the worst representation of the two characters to draw from?  The Dark Knight Returns is a great Batman story...but Miller has no grasp on Superman whatsoever.

 

I watched a pretty solid rant the other day from a guy who went back and forth between "Awesome!  I always Wanted a Superman/Batman movie!" and "This is a terrible idea!"  One of his core points is, Superman, as a character deserves a Man of Steel sequel that is just a Superman movie.  It would make more sense as a third film, but by making this a team up film, it is very likely characters like Lex Luhor and the Planet staff will get the shaft.  And I think a movie that introduces Lex, but is still a solo Superman before a team up makes more sense.

 

You could certainly drop hints of the expanded universe... glimpses of articles mentioning a mysterious vigilante in Gotham.  Mayby even have a subplot that allows Lex Luthor to have a contentious meeting with Bruce Wayne... and have a post credit shot of Batman's silhouette overlooking Metropolis.

 

But as the direct first sequel to MoS?  I am not really feeling hopeful or excited by the notion.

Edited by Thom Wade

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'Man of Steel 2' Seeking 40-ish Batman: The Early Contenders

First, some words of caution. The script is still being written, so nothing has been submitted formally to reps and actors. Two, according to sources, director Zack Snyder is only just beginning to look at actors.

But the real insight is the kind of Bruce Wayne/Batman that Snyder is looking to cast. According to numerous sources, this Wayne/Batman will be in the late 30s or around the 40 mark. He will be established and rugged. This new movie will not seek to recount an origin story or the rise of the Dark Knight. Christian Bale, The Dark Knight trilogy Batman, has said he won't return for another film.

Sources say the new movie is aiming for the tone of the relationship and fight seen in Frank Miller’s 1980s ground-breaking mini-series The Dark Knight Returns (How important is that work? Important enough that the cover to issue No. 2 sold Friday at a Heritage Auction for $478,000.)

Enough with the preamble. Here are the top names surfacing at this stage: . . .

Hollywood Reporter, August 3

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'Man of Steel 2' Seeking 40-ish Batman: The Early Contenders

Sources say the new movie is aiming for the tone of the relationship and fight seen in Frank Miller’s 1980s ground-breaking mini-series The Dark Knight Returns (How important is that work? Important enough that the cover to issue No. 2 sold Friday at a Heritage Auction for $478,000.)

 

No.

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The problem with using The Dark Knight Returns and Frank Miller's take as the basis for this film is that while Miller had a good grip on Batman, he completely misunderstood Superman. And this is a Superman movie, for crying out loud! Superman in The Dark Knight Returns was a toadie and a stooge for a fascist government. That is not who Superman is. Frankly, I was not impressed with Snyder's take on Superman in the Man of Steel movie. Hearing that they are leaning on TDKR for their portrayal of the characters for this sequel does not in any way calm my fears.

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The problem with using The Dark Knight Returns and Frank Miller's take as the basis for this film is that while Miller had a good grip on Batman, he completely misunderstood Superman. And this is a Superman movie, for crying out loud! Superman in The Dark Knight Returns was a toadie and a stooge for a fascist government. That is not who Superman is. Frankly, I was not impressed with Snyder's take on Superman in the Man of Steel movie. Hearing that they are leaning on TDKR for their portrayal of the characters for this sequel does not in any way calm my fears.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say Miller "misunderstood" Superman, at least in The Dark Knight Returns. Rather, he offered a subversive alternate take on Superman's 1950s "American way" idealism in light of the dark side of American superpower: a worst-case scenario for Superman gone wrong (until the even worse case of the odious Dark Knight Strikes Again).

I appreciate TDKR's subversive take on Superman for what it is -- as long as it exists in tension with the canonical characterization of Superman as an icon of goodness, idealism and heroism. It's when we lose touch with that canonical Superman, as Man of Steel arguably does, that Miller's subversive Superman becomes intolerable.

The Superman of Man of Steel could possibly be redeemed in a sufficiently heroic sequel -- but he's very much in need of redemption.

 

Going up against Batman in a Miller-influenced story that will probably to be at pains to please the Bat-fans by making Batman cooler and smarter ("Because I'm Batman") while dumbing down Superman (and probably succumbing to a common foible (similar to though not identical to what TV Tropes calls Badass In Distress), in which a character's toughness and competence is artificially undermined, underplayed or underutilized in specific circumstances for the sake of drama or conflict) is the last thing the Man of Steel needs.

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One of the things that strikes *me* about these casting rumours is that the filmmakers seem to be looking at some fairly established "names" for the part of Batman, just as they did for the supporting cast in Man of Steel... but Superman himself is basically played by an unknown. Yes, yes, I know, Henry Cavill starred in Immortals (does anyone remember that film?), and he apparently has some TV credits, too, but still: I wonder if casting a "name" actor as Batman would throw the balance off, somehow... but then, by the same token, would they want to cast an *unknown* actor as Batman in a movie that was already being treated as a Superman sequel? Seems like a tricky job for the casting director whichever way they go.

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