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Peter T Chattaway

Star Wars: Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

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NBooth   
19 minutes ago, Ryan H. said:

I generally like the rumor. It would actually move the mythology forward rather than just coasting on what we've already been given.

More than moving forward, it would radically recast what we've seen before. It's a pretty bold tampering with the established mythology (of course, it's a tampering confined to the Prequels, where people are less likely to get upset, but still).

Edited by NBooth

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18 minutes ago, NBooth said:

More than moving forward, it would radically recast what we've seen before. It's a pretty bold tampering with the established mythology (of course, it's a tampering confined to the Prequels, where people are less likely to get upset, but still).

Definitely. And I don't think that's bad, since that was a weaker element of the prequel mythology.

This twist also gets us into those grandly mystical, almost cosmic waters that Lucas always said would be a part of this trilogy.

That said, it does feel kinda

 

MATRIX RELOADED-y, which gives me pause.

 

Edited by Ryan H.

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NBooth   
17 minutes ago, Justin Hanvey said:

Like this better than her being a reincarnation of Anakin

Now that would be shrinking universe syndrome!

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NBooth wrote:
: It's a pretty bold tampering with the established mythology (of course, it's a tampering confined to the Prequels, where people are less likely to get upset, but still).

I dunno. It seems to me that the prequels themselves tampered with the original trilogy on this front, and (if the rumours are true) the new trilogy is tampering with the tampering. I'd be happy to just forget about everything outside the original trilogy, thankyouverymuch.

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'Star Wars' Braintrust Sets Meeting to Plot Leia's Life After Carrie Fisher's Death
Carrie Fisher's Dec. 27 death has left a disturbance in the Force. Her iconic Princess Leia is set to appear in the next two Star Wars films, and insiders tell The Hollywood Reporter that at least two key scenes are planned for Episode VIII (Dec. 15) and Episode IX (2019): a Leia reunion with Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) and a confrontation with Kylo Ren (Adam Driver), her son who killed Harrison Ford's Han Solo in 2015's The Force Awakens.
Details of where those scenes fit into the movies remain unclear, but insiders say Leia was to have been a bigger part of Episode IX than VIII. Episode VIII director Rian Johnson has finished shooting, but Episode IX doesn't have a start date; both Force Awakens and Episode VIII began production at the beginning of a year so it is very likely that Episode IX will begin shooting in early 2018 for a December 2019 release. And the status of its script, being written by Colin Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, is unknown. (Disney won't comment.) . . .
The Hollywood Reporter, January 5

- - -

The article mentions that Johnson had to give Episode VIII a major rewrite after JJ Abrams made big changes to the overarching storyline during post-production on Episode VII. I would not be at all surprised if there were rewrites or reshoots on Episode VIII now to accommodate the changes that have to be made to Episode IX.

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While this would make more sense, I guess A Thousand Solar Systems Divide was one word too many, and just not as EPIC.

Edited by John Drew

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Star Wars Episode IX:  Now For Some More Jedi

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For those keeping track, "Jedi" is now the first word other than "the" or "of" to appear in more than one Star Wars sub- or episode title. (I am not counting the animated Clone Wars movie; though it's an interesting question whether that would even make a difference: are "Clone" and "Clones" the same word, or two different words? And there is no other movie that has used "Wars" in the sub- or episode title, even if all of the movies have technically had "Star Wars" in their titles. (Well, maybe not *all* of the movies. Rogue One is officially just Rogue One -- the words "A Star Wars Story" never appear onscreen, even if the promotional copy has used it.))

So, to recap: in the nine live-action films produced so far, there have been 7 uses of The, 3 uses of Of, and 2 uses of Jedi in the titles.

Edited by Peter T Chattaway

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8 hours ago, Peter T Chattaway said:

For those keeping track, "Jedi" is now the first word other than "the" or "of" to appear in more than one Star Wars sub- or episode title. (I am not counting the animated Clone Wars movie; though it's an interesting question whether that would even make a difference: are "Clone" and "Clones" the same word, or two different words? And there is no other movie that has used "Wars" in the sub- or episode title, even if all of the movies have technically had "Star Wars" in their titles. (Well, maybe not *all* of the movies. Rogue One is officially just Rogue One -- the words "A Star Wars Story" never appear onscreen, even if the promotional copy has used it.))

So, to recap: in the nine live-action films produced so far, there have been 7 uses of The, 3 uses of Of, and 2 uses of Jedi in the titles.

Don't forget... if you stick only to the trilogy titles, 3 word titles have now drawn even with 4 word titles.  :D

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On 23/01/2017 at 0:50 PM, Peter T Chattaway said:

For those keeping track, "Jedi" is now the first word other than "the" or "of" to appear in more than one Star Wars sub- or episode title. (I am not counting the animated Clone Wars movie; though it's an interesting question whether that would even make a difference: are "Clone" and "Clones" the same word, or two different words? And there is no other movie that has used "Wars" in the sub- or episode title, even if all of the movies have technically had "Star Wars" in their titles. (Well, maybe not *all* of the movies. Rogue One is officially just Rogue One -- the words "A Star Wars Story" never appear onscreen, even if the promotional copy has used it.))

So, to recap: in the nine live-action films produced so far, there have been 7 uses of The, 3 uses of Of, and 2 uses of Jedi in the titles.

Yeah, but what about the Ewok Movies?

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NBooth   

 

Ok, I'm not so cynical yet. This is promising. 

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If you take that trailer in context of the thematic ideas talked about in the FORWAKENS making of books and materials, as well as the stuff they've been doing in REBELS, they're clearly going all-in on the "push beyond the light/dark dichotomy" thing. 

Which means SDG really isn't gonna like this.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Arkadin said:

If you take that trailer in context of the thematic ideas talked about in the FORWAKENS making of books and materials, as well as the stuff they've been doing in REBELS, they're clearly going all-in on the "push beyond the light/dark dichotomy" thing. 

Which means SDG really isn't gonna like this.

To add to this, Johnson read Jung's Modern Man In Search of a Soul and Robert Bly's A Little Book on the Human Shadow to prepare for this film.

Edited by Mr. Arkadin

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Yeah, I've seen one or two movie bloggers (and I don't follow *that* many) talk about how the Jedi and the Sith were two sides of the same coin, so the "balance" that was talked about in the Star Wars prequels can only be achieved by eliminating *both* groups. (Which means the new movies are subverting the incoherent intentions of George Lucas himself, who as I recall was quite explicit that Anakin really *did* fulfill the prophecy when he killed Palpatine in Episode VI. Personally, I always thought that Luke achieved a sort of "balance" himself by becoming a Jedi Knight who allowed for personal "attachments" in a way that Yoda and Obi-Wan did not.)

It's interesting, how the first six films were attended by a lot of Christian discussion on the Eastern mysticism that influenced the *language* of the films, and whether the films actually bought into that mysticism or subsumed it under a Christian belief in good triumphing over evil (rather than good and evil co-existing in a sort of yin-yang way). The new trilogy seems to be pushing in a decidedly more Eastern, less Christian direction, if you've been approaching the franchise from the perspective of that discussion.

It still bugs me that Luke is wearing prequel robes.

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9 minutes ago, Peter T Chattaway said:

Yeah, I've seen one or two movie bloggers (and I don't follow *that* many) talk about how the Jedi and the Sith were two sides of the same coin, so the "balance" that was talked about in the Star Wars prequels can only be achieved by eliminating *both* groups. (Which means the new movies are subverting the incoherent intentions of George Lucas himself, who as I recall was quite explicit that Anakin really *did* fulfill the prophecy when he killed Palpatine in Episode VI. Personally, I always thought that Luke achieved a sort of "balance" himself by becoming a Jedi Knight who allowed for personal "attachments" in a way that Yoda and Obi-Wan did not.)

It's interesting, how the first six films were attended by a lot of Christian discussion on the Eastern mysticism that influenced the *language* of the films, and whether the films actually bought into that mysticism or subsumed it under a Christian belief in good triumphing over evil (rather than good and evil co-existing in a sort of yin-yang way). The new trilogy seems to be pushing in a decidedly more Eastern, less Christian direction, if you've been approaching the franchise from the perspective of that discussion.

It still bugs me that Luke is wearing prequel robes.

I think these ideas are actually, to some extent, rooted in Lucas' original treatment (and Lucas, after all, was always interested in Eastern mysticism). Lucas had stated back in the day that he planned for the third trilogy to be suffused with greater moral ambiguity, to challenge the dichotomies. And the very early production art for FORWAKENS, from when they were just brainstorming off of the Lucas treatments (which laid the groundwork for Snoke, among other features of the finished films) are full of images exploring the duality of the Force, with the idea of there being some greater unity between the Light and Dark Sides. These themes were in the mind of the production team from the very start.

It's worth mentioning that REBELS--which, so far, has really seemed to be where Disney is putting stuff to support the narrative work being done in the new trilogy--recently had an enlightened Obi-Wan declaring that Luke is the true Chosen One. Whether or not this was an official retcon or just Obi-Wan's limited perspective, they haven't elaborated, but DisneyWars has clearly added some ambiguity as to who the Chosen One is.

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Mr. Arkadin wrote:
: I think these ideas are actually, to some extent, rooted in Lucas' original treatment (and Lucas, after all, was always interested in Eastern mysticism).

He was interested, yeah. But he didn't always develop those themes in the most coherent way. I mean, Return of the Jedi ending with "Celebrate the love!" and then the prequels suggesting that "attachments" are a bad thing... If I thought Lucas was being coherent, I would think that he had *intended* to say that Luke had "corrected" the errors of Yoda and Obi-Wan and all the other Jedi, but as we all know, he really didn't have that much of the prequel back-story figured out when he was making Return of the Jedi, so who knows. It seems just as likely to me that the movement away from "attachments" in the Star Wars films -- seen in the order that they were produced, rather than the order in which they take place -- reflects a trajectory in Lucas's own thinking about these things.

: It's worth mentioning that REBELS--which, so far, has really seemed to be where Disney is putting stuff to support the narrative work being done in the new trilogy--recently had an enlightened Obi-Wan declaring that Luke is the true Chosen One.

Curious to know more about this. What does "an enlightened Obi-Wan" mean? The Force-ghost Obi-Wan? An Obi-Wan who has discovered the true interpretation? Obi-Wan's track record is so riddled with errors, right up to his death and beyond (when the Force-ghost version of him was still telling Luke to kill his father and saying that "the Emperor has already won" because Luke refused to do that), that I wouldn't put much stock in anything he says at this point.

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4 minutes ago, Peter T Chattaway said:

What does "an enlightened Obi-Wan" mean? The Force-ghost Obi-Wan? An Obi-Wan who has discovered the true interpretation? Obi-Wan's track record is so riddled with errors, right up to his death and beyond (when the Force-ghost version of him was still telling Luke to kill his father and saying that "the Emperor has already won" because Luke refused to do that), that I wouldn't put much stock in anything he says at this point.

Meaning that Obi-Wan is portrayed as a kind of "zen" figure in the scene. He's facing off against Darth Maul for the final time, and asks Maul to look at everything he's risen above. He subsequently fells Darth Maul with a single move, in a nice Kurosawa-flavored movement.

He then cradles Maul in his arms as Maul dies. Maul, who has become kind of a "gray" figure, neither Sith nor Jedi, and has been in search of enlightenment of his own, asks Obi-Wan if the person he's guarding is the Chosen One, and Obi-Wan replies that it is.

Like I said, nothing concrete. But it definitely muddies the waters a bit.

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