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Peter T Chattaway

Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

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On 1/3/2020 at 6:54 PM, Aren Bergstrom said:

I believe the ending is a sunrise, not a sunset. I've seen the film three times and there is no sun in the sky during Rey's initial appearance at the Lars Homestead. But when she says her name is "Rey Skywalker," it appears over the horizon, and in the silhouette shot, we can see the redder of the suns rising slightly.

Thanks for this, and I could be wrong here because I can't remember the exact details from Rise of Skywalker, but isn't she positioned to be looking at the same horizon on Tatooine that Luke was looking at from his farm? If this is the case, it would mean either a) the suns rise and set on Tatooine on the same horizon, which would be an interesting bit of cosmic physics, or b) it's a sunset. Now I'm really curious as to how Rey is framed/positioned in the final shot.

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9 hours ago, Peter T Chattaway said:

 

And then, in Star Trek into Darkness, there was a stupid, stupid bit where the Enterprise is hiding underwater -- an environment it is absolutely *not built for* (it's not even built for traveling in a planet's atmosphere; there is nothing aerodynamic about its design at all) -- and then it rises up out of the water and into the sky where all the aliens can see it, and now, in The Rise of Skywalker, Palpatine reveals that he's been keeping a whole bunch of Really Large Star Destroyers (reportedly they are supposed to be much bigger than the ones we saw in the original trilogy) underground or something, and he makes them all rise into the sky...

Maybe he uses the force? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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10 hours ago, Joel Mayward said:

Thanks for this, and I could be wrong here because I can't remember the exact details from Rise of Skywalker, but isn't she positioned to be looking at the same horizon on Tatooine that Luke was looking at from his farm? If this is the case, it would mean either a) the suns rise and set on Tatooine on the same horizon, which would be an interesting bit of cosmic physics, or b) it's a sunset. Now I'm really curious as to how Rey is framed/positioned in the final shot.

See Joel, I think you're correct that it's the same spot that Luke is on, so the suns would've been setting from that spot, so I'm not sure this actually makes any sense within the storyworld itself. But the third time I saw the film, I went in specifically wanting to pay attention to this ending to answer this question and I remember the wide shot of the farm with no sun and then the sun only appears for the final two shots, so no sun to sun makes me think it's a sunrise, that combined with the aforementioned red sun rising in the final frame and the title of the film "Rise."

Again, I could be wrong and my memory may be constructing something that's not there. If I see it a fourth time (which is likely), I'll report back with further updates.


"Someone like Jean-Luc Godard is for me intellectual counterfeit money when compared to a good kung fu film." - Werner Herzog

3brothersfilm.com

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3 hours ago, Aren Bergstrom said:

If I see it a fourth time (which is likely), I'll report back with further updates.

Please do look for this, as I'm really curious now. I actually expected it to be a sunrise as I watched it precisely because the scene itself seemed to be trying so hard for the symbolism of it all. It's like the Twitter joke: *leans over to date* "That's the Rise of Skywalker."

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On 1/6/2020 at 4:55 PM, Joel Mayward said:

Please do look for this, as I'm really curious now. I actually expected it to be a sunrise as I watched it precisely because the scene itself seemed to be trying so hard for the symbolism of it all. It's like the Twitter joke: *leans over to date* "That's the Rise of Skywalker."

Update now that it's on Blu-ray: it's definitely a sunrise, Joel. There are even articles being written about that exact moment now, e.g. https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rise-skywalker-tatooine-suns-not-set-reason/


"Someone like Jean-Luc Godard is for me intellectual counterfeit money when compared to a good kung fu film." - Werner Herzog

3brothersfilm.com

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2 hours ago, Aren Bergstrom said:

Update now that it's on Blu-ray: it's definitely a sunrise, Joel.

Does this confirm my speculation that on Tatooine, the suns rise and set on the same horizon, and in the same order/position?

rey binary sunrise.jpg

binary_sunset.png

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8 minutes ago, Joel Mayward said:

Does this confirm my speculation that on Tatooine, the suns rise and set on the same horizon, and in the same order/position?

Okay...not to be that guy, but...........

how could they?

I mean from a physics standpoint? Does Tatooine revolve around both suns? (That's a long orbit?) Does it revolve around one with the other being a nearby star?) These aren't moons. Or in Jedi planets is the force so strong that the sun really does revolve around the earth?

I'm reminded of Ursula LeGuinn's famous essay that in science-fiction you get one and only one concession to things that are not yet explicable or experienced. I believe she even uses the example of a planet with two moons, saying if you postulate it, you better have a clear (and scientifically plausible) answer on what effect that has on the tides, the length of days, the seasons, the agriculture, etc. Lucas's world building has never struck me as caring all that much about consistency or plausibility, even if he does insist that he knew Luke and Leia were brother and sister all along and that the force was midiclorians even when he was calling it an energy field that surrounds all living things. 

Perhaps Thanos snapped and changed the orbital trajectory...or Superman flew around the planet backwards so fast that he made the sun rise in the west.

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Oh, my query isn't really of the Neil Degrasse Tyson sort. I don't think there's a real answer here beyond "there's poor writing and lazy ideas in Rise of Skywalker." I think the binary sunset scene in the original Star Wars is a great cinematic moment in that film. And I think the writers of Rise of Skywalker tried to build upon that moment for themselves without actually thinking through basic world-building or framing—if it requires multiple viewings and debates as to determine whether or not it's a sunrise or sunset, perhaps it isn't a particularly clear ending.

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That being said, I appreciate that Aren enjoys this film enough to own the Blu-ray and check out the final scene, and thought to come here to A&F to address the question raised months ago. And I think the *idea* of closing the entire Star Wars saga on Rey and a sunrise is a nice (albeit obvious) image. The execution of that idea in RoS left me more confused than content.

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3 minutes ago, Joel Mayward said:

That being said, I appreciate that Aren enjoys this film enough to own the Blu-ray and check out the final scene, and thought to come here to A&F to address the question raised months ago. 

Yeah I can't really throw stones since I nominated Rounders for the Top 100.

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1 hour ago, Joel Mayward said:

That being said, I appreciate that Aren enjoys this film enough to own the Blu-ray and check out the final scene, and thought to come here to A&F to address the question raised months ago. And I think the *idea* of closing the entire Star Wars saga on Rey and a sunrise is a nice (albeit obvious) image. The execution of that idea in RoS left me more confused than content.

Eh, it works for me emotionally. I totally get it not working for others.

It's clear that it's not obvious whether it's sunrise or sunset on first (or second, or third) viewing, so I'm not going to defend the framing. But it's not actually the same horizon. The ridge where Luke watches sunset is to the right of the Lars Homestead entrance. In the final scene in The Rise of Skywalker, Rey is standing in front of that entrance when talking with the woman, and then proceeds to continue forward and to the right, so she's actually looking the opposite direction. The homestead is in the left of one frame of Rey watching the sunset, out of focus, and you can tell it's the backside of the homestead, because it doesn't have the entrancing jutting out, which would be there if it was the same ridge as Luke.

Again, not defending the framing (it takes investigating it frame by frame to figure this out, which is itself an issue), but just pedantically pointing out that it's not the same horizon, cause I feel like I went this far, might as well go further. Clearly, I'm a little too invested. haha


"Someone like Jean-Luc Godard is for me intellectual counterfeit money when compared to a good kung fu film." - Werner Herzog

3brothersfilm.com

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5 hours ago, Aren Bergstrom said:

It's clear that it's not obvious whether it's sunrise or sunset on first (or second, or third) viewing, so I'm not going to defend the framing. But it's not actually the same horizon. The ridge where Luke watches sunset is to the right of the Lars Homestead entrance. In the final scene in The Rise of Skywalker, Rey is standing in front of that entrance when talking with the woman, and then proceeds to continue forward and to the right, so she's actually looking the opposite direction. The homestead is in the left of one frame of Rey watching the sunset, out of focus, and you can tell it's the backside of the homestead, because it doesn't have the entrancing jutting out, which would be there if it was the same ridge as Luke.

This is really clarifying. Thanks Aren!

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