Peter T Chattaway

Star Wars: Rogue One

178 posts in this topic

Given all the cameos, and how 

Rogue One's ending occurs essentially hours before A New Hope, I was a bit surprised Biggs Darklighter didn't show up. I know that there were scenes shot with Biggs and Luke that didn't make it into ANH, but I kind of wish he had been in Rogue One given all the other pilots who attacked the first Death Star who were in it.

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I *thought* I saw Biggs in one shot, but I didn't see his name in the credits, and in any case it wouldn't have made any sense if we take into account the deleted scene from Episode IV in which Biggs meets Luke on Tatooine and says he's going to join the Rebellion *after* Vader captures Leia.

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He's there. I saw him too. Just one quick shot, but if it's not him then it's a confusing lookalike.

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That would be admirable restraint if they just had him in the background instead of giving him a line or two.  Small world syndrome and all that.  I'm still a little surprised that we didn't see all those Death Star imperial officers we see in the original Star Wars arguing about the fleet etc.

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Buckeye Jones wrote:
: That would be admirable restraint if they just had him in the background instead of giving him a line or two.  

I'd still want to resist the apparent implication that the aforementioned deleted scene from Episode IV, which I believe is depicted in the novelization and the comic-book adaptation of said episode, is no longer canonical. (I guess technically it never was. But still.)

: I'm still a little surprised that we didn't see all those Death Star imperial officers we see in the original Star Wars arguing about the fleet etc.

Tarkin brought them in after firing Krennic's staff.

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On 12/17/2016 at 10:00 PM, winter shaker said:

 

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Personally, I would've loved to see a Bothan or a species that originated in the EU be included.

 

Wasn't one of the aliens in the Rebel War Room on Yavin IV a Bothan? Kind of a cross between a chimp and a cat?

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In case it hasn't come up here yet, I assume the depiction of Darth Vader's home is taken from one of the discarded ideas for The Empire Strikes Back: "Darth Vader would have had a castle. And it would have been an evil fortress — in some versions, it’s surrounded by lava, and full of gargoyles who are Vader’s pets."

The more I think about it, the more it bugs me that this movie has no interest in the experimentation of Lucas's films when it comes to droids and aliens communicating in something other than English. Lucas *loved* the beeps and grunts and whatnot that his characters made -- only some of which were subtitled. But in this movie, the entire "Rogue One" band consists of humans, except for a droid who speaks English and is voiced by Alan Tudyk (who has done a *lot* of voice work for Disney cartoons and also provided the voice of the main robot in the Will Smith version of I, Robot).

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17 minutes ago, Peter T Chattaway said:

In case it hasn't come up here yet, I assume the depiction of Darth Vader's home is taken from one of the discarded ideas for The Empire Strikes Back: "Darth Vader would have had a castle. And it would have been an evil fortress — in some versions, it’s surrounded by lava, and full of gargoyles who are Vader’s pets."

This is one of my favourite bits in the movie, mostly because I remember the old production artwork for Vader's castle by Ralph McQuarrie. Apparently the planet is actually Mustafar, even though it seems pretty morbid of him to make his base on the same planet that almost destroyed him.

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Anders wrote:
: Apparently the planet is actually Mustafar, even though it seems pretty morbid of him to make his base on the same planet that almost destroyed him.

It was the last place where he saw Padme... indeed, he thinks he killed her there...

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Re: the castle (mild spoilers for EP. VIII):

Kylo Ren apparently uses Vader's castle in VIII as his retreat.

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I thought it was Mordor.

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7 minutes ago, Joel Mayward said:

I thought it was Mordor.

That's what my wife said about the scene.

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Just got back from this. The short version is that, after a first watch--flaws and all--this is by far the best Star Wars movie since Revenge of the Sith. It's certainly a movie lacking in  character-development; as long as it is, there's little feel for who these people are (I loved Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen, but they're making the most of some pretty underwritten parts). And that's a problem. CGI Tarkin is a problem whenever he opens his mouth--although the voice work is very good indeed. The ending of the movie is pat enough to be labeled "stupid." But--and this is big--this movie has an actual visual sensibility that The Force Awakens crucially lacked. It looks fantastic and it actually tries to either show us settings new to the Star Wars universe or approach old vistas from new perspectives. Given how thoroughgoingly unimaginative the Abrams film was, this accomplishment by itself is worth praising.

I also liked the moral muddiness of the whole thing. I know that the Saga proper uses bright lines to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys, but I don't see why some of these side-projects can't complicate matters a bit. It's a big universe and there's room for both approaches. So having the Rebels be divided among themselves--and having one scene pretty explicitly evoke contemporary insurgencies abroad, albeit initiated by a character who was too extreme even for the extremists in the Rebellion--was an interesting touch. 

Mikkelsen was wasted, though. Most of these actors were, but the way he was treated was the worst.

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3 hours ago, Joel Mayward said:

I thought it was Mordor.

I thought so too.

Also, speaking of resemblances, Alistair Petrie (General Draven) looks a helluva lot like Kelsey Grammer.

I saw it again last night. I think I did indeed see Biggs, though he's only on screen for a second.

 

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1 hour ago, NBooth said:

I also liked the moral muddiness of the whole thing. I know that the Saga proper uses bright lines to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys, but I don't see why some of these side-projects can't complicate matters a bit. It's a big universe and there's room for both approaches. So having the Rebels be divided among themselves--and having one scene pretty explicitly evoke contemporary insurgencies abroad, albeit initiated by a character who was too extreme even for the extremists in the Rebellion--was an interesting touch. 

There are significant hints that we will be seeing more "moral muddiness" introduced in EP. VIII, and that REBELS, which has been exploring ambiguity among Force users, is part of a "corporate synergy" initiative to help establish that as part of the fabric of the DisneyWars universe.

That said, the fairytale moral dynamics of the original trilogy do not leave much room for this kind of ambiguity, so this direction does feel decidedly un-STAR WARS for those of us who regard the original trilogy as canon and everything to come after as being secondary.

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Sam Adams predicted the basic premise of this movie a year ago without realizing it:

 

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Ryan H. wrote:
: Re: the castle (mild spoilers for EP. VIII):

So its presence here is presumably part of the reshoots? (I have a vague recollection that, in the trailers, it looked like Krennic was talking to Vader on the Death Star, not in the castle.)

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I don't know if the original movies are all of Lucas' original vision for the universe or not though, we see in the Legend novels (not canon anymore but we're almost tyrannically watched over by Lucas) a lot more moral ambiguity and feeling of a grayer universe. I wonder if the black and white mentality of the movies themselves (although they do get richer and deeper the further they go) was reflective more of Lucas' own sensibililies as a director. 

 

I believe everything Disney is doing now is well within Lucas' own vision for the Star Wars universe. His own reaction to Rogue One even was that he could die happy that someone has finally captured his heart for the Star Wars universe.

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- - -

The First Script for Rogue One Had a Completely Different Ending
i09.com, December 19

- - -

Edwards basically makes it sound like the reshoots allowed him to do what he really wanted to do. I'll say this for the guy: he's a trooper. If his vision for the film got watered down at all against his will, he certainly isn't letting it on.

Incidentally, i09 calls the final ending of the film "unexpected". Me, I expected it all along. A line like "I have traced the Rebel spies to her, now she is my only link to finding their secret base" (from Episode IV) didn't exactly leave a lot of leeway.

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7 minutes ago, Peter T Chattaway said:
Incidentally, i09 calls the final ending of the film "unexpected". Me, I expected it all along. A line like "I have traced the Rebel spies to her, now she is my only link to finding their secret base" (from Episode IV) didn't exactly leave a lot of leeway.

And even if that line never existed, it should be pretty obvious from the kind of movie Rogue One is that the ending would end up more or less where it did. The "original" ending sounds much less organic just in terms of what the rest of the movie is trying to be.

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3 hours ago, Peter T Chattaway said:

Ryan H. wrote:
: Re: the castle (mild spoilers for EP. VIII):

So its presence here is presumably part of the reshoots?

Probably.

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14 hours ago, Justin Hanvey said:

I don't know if the original movies are all of Lucas' original vision for the universe or not though, we see in the Legend novels (not canon anymore but we're almost tyrannically watched over by Lucas) a lot more moral ambiguity and feeling of a grayer universe.

I'm not sure if "tyrannically" is the right descriptor here. Lucas certainly had some oversight, especially on Zahn's first trilogy, but it was mostly to veto things that he wanted to preserve for his own sandbox (e.g. The Clone Wars). Check out Michael Kaminski's SECRET HISTORY OF STAR WARS if you haven't. I know I've plugged it before, but I bet you'd really enjoy it, Justin.

That said, one of the other EU (Legends is it now?) stories that Lucas had the most input on was DARK EMPIRE by Kennedy and Leitch for Dark Horse comics, and it certainly fits the darker tone that folks are interested in.

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Gotcha.

Yeah Dark Empire is a very dark trippy storyline.

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I didn't really like this. I'm so tired of the iconography of this series (Death Stars, TIE fighters, even Vader himself), and this movie leans on it hard.

My interest picked up whenever we got something that felt new and exciting. The ruined world of Jedha was a nice way to evoke the passing of the Jedi, and Yen and Wen play my favorite characters in DisneyWars (so far, anyway). They loosely introduced the idea of Force-worship as religion in TFA, but this is this first time they're really delivering on it. I wish the movie had been built around them.

I was not pleased with how the film ended up leaning on "War on Terror" imagery, since it sits so awkwardly against the Flash Gordon-y quality of STAR WARS, but the character of Saw Gerrera was strong and Whitaker did well with the role.

The two leads couldn't have been less charismatic, although the script doesn't give them much to work with (in general, the script doesn't give anyone much to work with). Krennic is a neat bad guy just because of Mendelsohn's wonderful line delivery and facial expressions.

The more fanservice-y bits, from Vader's appearances to CGI Tarkin, all fall flat. The bit on Mustafar felt like an excerpt from a fan film.

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Ryan H. wrote:
: I was not pleased with how the film ended up leaning on "War on Terror" imagery . . .

FWIW, I just found out today that the DP on this film is the same guy who shot Zero Dark Thirty (and he also shot Lion and the upcoming Mary Magdalene).

: Krennic is a neat bad guy just because of Mendelsohn's wonderful line delivery and facial expressions.

The DP made a comment in an interview I read today that *all* of this film's characters are "rogues", and I got the sense that he was including the bad guys -- especially Krennic -- in that categorization. I certainly thought Krennic's last scene was kind of interesting, different, etc., for a Star Wars film. Call it tragedy or pathos or whatever.

: The bit on Mustafar felt like an excerpt from a fan film.

It was particularly distracting because it seemed from the trailers that Krennic was supposed to meet Vader on the Death Star, or possibly on a Star Destroyer. Having Krennic go so far out of his way to meet Vader on this other planet felt like, as you say, fan service (especially if the rumours are true and it was meant to set up one of the plot elements in Episode VIII).

BTW, did the subtitles actually identify that planet as Mustafar? I can't remember. I do know I've seen some grumbling about this being the first Star Wars film to have subtitles telling the audience which planet each scene was taking place on.

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