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the Ack! Doctor Strange replacement thread

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I was trying to delete one stupid post (my own). What happened??? Can it be recovered? 

Edited by SDG

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Well this is very frustrating. Archive.org has a copy of the Film forum homepage that was archived on October 20, i.e. just 18 days ago, and you can see the 'Doctor Strange' thread at the top of the list... but Archive.org doesn't appear to have archived any pages from the 'Doctor Strange' thread itself. Unless I'm missing something, which is always possible.

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Wow... shouldn't it be made quite difficult even for a moderator to delete *A WHOLE THREAD*?!! Think of what gems of wisdom are now lost forever in the web's unconsciousness... Has this happened before? Perhaps the site needs a little tweak.

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I'm imagining now Doctor Mister activating the Eye of Agamotto and time twisting backwards until the thread reappears out of the ether followed by Steve sucking an expletive back into his mouth and reversing his ill-fated keystroke.  

BTW, Peter and I exchanged some comments on the twitter dot com about this, but part of what I think is so thrilling about the action sequences in DOCTOR STRANGE is that they reverse what we've all come to hate so much about high-stakes action films: the destructo-porn crumbling of city blocks and tall buildings, presumably stuffed with unseen people.  This film literally reverses that awful cliche, and the thrill level is much higher, without the attendant disgust.  If anybody else has already made that point, apologies, but I think it's a big reason why the action scenes work better than they have in any Marvel movie I've seen to date.

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1 hour ago, Russ said:

I'm imagining now Doctor Mister activating the Eye of Agamotto and time twisting backwards until the thread reappears out of the ether followed by Steve sucking an expletive back into his mouth and reversing his ill-fated keystroke.  

BTW, Peter and I exchanged some comments on the twitter dot com about this, but part of what I think is so thrilling about the action sequences in DOCTOR STRANGE is that they reverse what we've all come to hate so much about high-stakes action films: the destructo-porn crumbling of city blocks and tall buildings, presumably stuffed with unseen people.  This film literally reverses that awful cliche, and the thrill level is much higher, without the attendant disgust.  If anybody else has already made that point, apologies, but I think it's a big reason why the action scenes work better than they have in any Marvel movie I've seen to date.

I like the mental image evoked there...

Also, agree about the action sequences. I can see why they do it - a skyscraper can fall apart so visually that you don't need to put any effort into binding that image to narrative stakes. Thing is, we've seen it all before and so the sensory impact is dulled and jaded. You're right - the reversal of this cliche is so refreshing, and seems of a part with the whole tone of Strange. It feels almost like a palate-cleanser among the MCU courses.

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The film is very clever in that regard. We've seen a lot of "last stand" battles in film of this type. Playing the battle in reverse and then layering another battle on top of it is incredibly nifty.

I actually want to see this again, which is a first for an MCU flick.

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I'm chagrined that this seems to be turning into the replacement Doctor Strange thread. Ugh. So sorry. 

Welp, as it happens, I have the text of the post I was trying to delete/replace, so…here it is, FWIW. 

Here's an interesting piece that argues that Doctor Strange is actually a supervillain, and that [spoilery name redacted] is actually the hero. 

My argument in my new piece "Doctor Strange and Hacksaw Ridge: Breaking rules and the greater good" is somewhat similar, but significantly different: I say that the Ancient One is fatally compromised, and that [spoilery name redacted] is right about her misdeeds, but that [spoilery name redacted] isn't right about everything, including Dr. Strange's rule-breaking. 

(Major spoilers ahoy.) 

Quote

My initial take on Doctor Strange is this: Some rules can be broken to serve the greater good. The rule against tampering with time is one of those rules. Mordo was wrong about that.

But Mordo, like most interesting villains (and Mordo could become the second interesting villain in Disney’s Marvel universe, after Loki), wasn’t wrong about everything. I think Mordo was right to condemn the Ancient One’s use of power from Dormammu’s Dark Dimension. You can’t use the powers of darkness to fight the powers of darkness. You can’t do good with black magic.

The fulcrum of my argument is that Dormammu, while not exactly Satan, is clearly a stand-in: 

Quote

Kaecilius and his followers are like Satan worshippers who believe the serpent’s lie in the Garden - “You shall not die…you shall be as gods” - and ultimately discover the emptiness of his promises. (Note the similarity between the Ancient One’s remark that “our fear of death” gives Dormammu life and Hebrews 2:14-15, which states that “through fear of death” mankind became subject to lifelong bondage to the devil.)

The Ancient One doesn't serve Dormammu, of course. But by using the energies from his realm, according to Mordo, she inadvertently leads Kaecilius to Dormammu. 

Edited by SDG

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I have not looked at the Doctor Strange thread here, and thought today would be a good day to read it. This is what happens when you call me an Evangelical on the eve of a Presidential election Steven. I hope you've learned your lesson and this doesn't happen again in 2020.

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19 hours ago, Scott Derrickson said:

I have not looked at the Doctor Strange thread here, and thought today would be a good day to read it. This is what happens when you call me an Evangelical on the eve of a Presidential election Steven. I hope you've learned your lesson and this doesn't happen again in 2020.

Are you telling us the date for the release of DOCTOR STRANGE 2?!

P.S. Well done on the film. I enjoyed it a lot.

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22 hours ago, Scott Derrickson said:

I have not looked at the Doctor Strange thread here, and thought today would be a good day to read it. This is what happens when you call me an Evangelical on the eve of a Presidential election Steven. I hope you've learned your lesson and this doesn't happen again in 2020.

It was a good thread! I was hoping to have my comments present as I write something about the film this next week.

But FWIW I am really amazed by what you have done with this material so important to many, Scott. So happy for you that the film has been reviewed so well - and regarded as setting up camp in the more intellectual end of the MCU. This was the first of the Marvel films I had any personal or biographical stake in, and it just flat out works.

Edited by M. Leary

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I coordinated an office outing to see this one today.  A nice escape from the mayhem of this week!  In Cincinnati, we're awaiting a verdict on Ray Tensing, a university cop that shot Anthony DuBose about a year ago, essentially because he was frightened.  So it's a pertinent film to take in, in some respects, as it wrestles with fear on multiple levels.  My only regret is that I didn't see it in 3D.  The kaleidoscope effects would have looked even more dazzling there.  I'm sorry I missed the original thread--waited to read it until after I'd seen it.  Anyway, well-done.  I'd love to hear more about its creation, understanding how the tension (assuming there's always some) between the corporate MCU and the specific artistic vision was engaged with and resolved.  How does one make a specific and personal (at least at the film-production level, knowing that it takes a village) creation in the midst of a structured and engineered franchise, with strategic goals and vision?

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So, I'm sure it's been said elsewhere, but it bears stating again: this is the most visually interesting of all the MCU films, particularly Strange's tumble into the multi-verse. Watching the film on IMAX in 3D made that tumble into something my teen film-watching companions could only describe as "like being on LSD or something." Yet what struck me most throughout the film was how well framed and blocked each sequence was, both in the multi-verse and in later time/reality bending fight scenes. I knew where each character was, what was happening on-screen made sense (even when it didn't make sense), and I found myself with this paradoxical response of feeling awe while being totally comfortable, like being strapped in tightly and safely for the craziest of roller coaster rides.

But this film, unlike so many recent superhero films, also has beautiful moments of quiet and calm. I have to confess that Swinton's delivery of "It's not about you" brought about a sudden wave of emotion in me. In my own personal journey as a pastor, my vocation somehow became trying to help and "save" as many people as I could (while also trying to bolster my reputation and ego). It led me into a season of burnout and depression a few years ago, and I've slowly healed and recovered through a lot of self-evaluation, confession, humility, and discernment. So hearing "It's not about you" in that quiet moment spoke to me in ways I didn't think an MCU film ever would. It surprised me, in a good way. Scott, thanks for that.

On 11/9/2016 at 9:42 AM, SDG said:

I'm chagrined that this seems to be turning into the replacement Doctor Strange thread. Ugh. So sorry. 

Welp, as it happens, I have the text of the post I was trying to delete/replace, so…here it is, FWIW. 

Here's an interesting piece that argues that Doctor Strange is actually a supervillain, and that [spoilery name redacted] is actually the hero. 

My argument in my new piece "Doctor Strange and Hacksaw Ridge: Breaking rules and the greater good" is somewhat similar, but significantly different: I say that the Ancient One is fatally compromised, and that [spoilery name redacted] is right about her misdeeds, but that [spoilery name redacted] isn't right about everything, including Dr. Strange's rule-breaking. 

(Major spoilers ahoy.) 

The fulcrum of my argument is that Dormammu, while not exactly Satan, is clearly a stand-in: 

The Ancient One doesn't serve Dormammu, of course. But by using the energies from his realm, according to Mordo, she inadvertently leads Kaecilius to Dormammu. 

The film raises some very interesting ethical questions, and I think you address them well here, Steven. The question of whether or not it's okay to follow the rules of natural law leads me to the question of "whose rules?" Where did these rules come from in the first place, and what tradition is Strange & Co. a part of? Maybe the comics answer these questions, but I did wonder if the Ancient One felt like she could bend or break the rules precisely because she created them, or had a say in their origins. Or is it all simply "natural law" that everyone must follow, and it's commonly understood that cheating time and death is considered inherently wrong? I suppose my underlying question is, in the world of the MCU, who defines what is good?

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