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kenmorefield

Growing Old(er) Optional Round 2 Ballot

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Here is the ballot to rank the final list. If you voted in Round 1 but choose not to vote in Round 2, please post a comment so that I won't be waiting on you for calculations. 

I personally found this (ranking) harder than Round 1, but it's important because there are some films at the top/bottom that are bunched closely. 

https://www.mysurveygizmo.com/s3/4960449/2019-Arts-Faith-Top-25-Round-2-Growing-Older

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The survey requires you to rank all of the films, so only people who have seen all of the films will be able to submit a ranked list. I'm actually okay with that. I love many films on this list but don't feel qualified to rank them because I've only seen half.

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I posted this in the RESULTS thread, but I probably should have repeated it here:

Quote

A note on Round 2 voting. It will have these 29 films and ask you to RANK them (from 1 to 29). You may use whatever criteria you like. This may require you (if you participate) to rank one or more films you haven't seen. You may base that on reputation, arguments of others, wanting it to rank ahead or below a film you strongly agree/strongly disagree with, etc.  

I respect anyone's decision to not participate in Round 2 because he/she hasn't seen all or enough of the films, though it is not a requirement to have seen them to rank them. In similar situations (Ecumenical Jury) I have seen people rank the all the films they *have* seen and then rank the remainder by reputation. I've also seen people abstain entirely. I've also seen people rank the ones they've seen and agree with, put the ones they haven't seen (based on reputation or testimonials) in the middle, and put the ones they disagree with at the end. 

Of course, in the EJ, there are only 10 films on the final list, so it's not as big a headache. 

Still, that is why I/we made Round 2 optional. The presumption is that it will allow people to differentiate between the films they gave 5s to and the films they gave 4 to, etc.

As an aside, Darren, it looks as though it did submit a partial list from you (presumably of the films you've seen). Could you clarify for ranking purposes if you would like me to include those votes (the 9 films that were not ranked would then just be weighted equally), or are you saying that you prefer to withdraw your Round 2 ballot altogether?

 

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I should clarify about scoring in case it's not widely known. My understanding is that SurveyGizmo gives 1 point for 29th place, 2 points for 28th place and so on up to 29 points for first place. 

So, if hypothetically a person has seen, say, 20 of the films and has nine he/she hasn't seen, all nine unranked films would get 5 points (the average for all points for positions 21-29). If someone asks me, my recommendation is going to be to rank the films one has seen and weight the others equally, but I'm not going to penalize someone who wants to differentiate between two films he/she hasn't seen based on criteria such as subject matter, other experience with the auteur, etc. 

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Did we decide on a cutoff date for this round of voting? I'm asking because there are only nine finalists I have not seen, and I think I could easily get to 4-5 of them, possibly more, depending on how long the poll is open.

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4 hours ago, Evan C said:

Did we decide on a cutoff date for this round of voting? I'm asking because there are only nine finalists I have not seen, and I think I could easily get to 4-5 of them, possibly more, depending on how long the poll is open.

We originally tabbed April 16-30 for Round 2, which is what I'm currently going with. That said, I am open to adjusting that if people want to speed it up or would prefer more time to rate them. Since we are not publishing in an outside venue (like IMAGE) our deadlines are more or less self-imposed. That said, I have received one message commenting that this process seems/feels needlessly drawn out in comparison to previous years, and I am aware that some of us are on academic schedules and may want to wrap it up before the end of summer. (I'm traveling to Ireland in mid-May for a conference and Joel is going to Cannes whenever Cannes is.) That's one reason I went ahead and solicited blurb volunteers in the results thread. It might mean 3-4 blurbs get written and not used, but I don't really need to know where a film is on the list to write the blurb. 

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As an aside, Darren, it looks as though it did submit a partial list from you (presumably of the films you've seen).

Those are the films I've seen, in ranked order.

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I also appreciate the two weeks following initial voting. I hadn't seen 7 of the top 29, but have found ways to see each of them and should have time for them all before final voting.

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(Sigh.) Due to the number of classes I'm teaching this quarter, and the two conferences I'm attending in the next two weeks,  I'm not going to have time to prioritize seeing more titles Ibefore the final vote deadline — and I've only seen 18 of these finalists. So I'm doing a lot of spitballing if I vote in Round 2. I almost wonder if it would be better for me to bow out of voting at this point.

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Hi Jeff,

Thanks for being transparent about your concerns. Please know that you are welcome to participate in Round 2 or not as you feel most comfortable. 

That being said, I'd encourage you to, like Darren, rank the films you have seen to help the list better reflect the overall sentiments of the community. What follows, briefly, are myfour reasons behind recommending Round 2 participation. 

--Simply doing Round 1 voting advantages films that have been seen by fewer people. Because we often self-select against watching the films we are less interested in, those films often have higher averages than films that are rated highly by 90% of the community and have one or two naysayers. But having a higher cut-off/eligibility point advantages films seen by more people. So I'm looking for guidance from the results to think about how to handle, say hypothetically, a film that has a 4.3 average but was only voted on by 40% of the community and a film that had a 3.8 average but was seen by 80% of the voters. 

--The impact on a film a voter hasn't seen being on the list (or not) is already built into Round 1 voting, so nobody is hurting a film by ranking it lower (because he/she hasn't seen it) or ranking all the films one hasn't seen together at the bottom of the rankings (which is essentially what Round 1 voting does). 

--The more important function of Round 2, in my opinion, is to allow voters the opportunity to distinguish between films to which they gave the same score. I think this is true even for films one hasn't seen. I know I keep harping on this, but...there is, I believe, a meaningful difference between, say,  the voter who has seen the first four 7 Up films, appreciated them, and is reasonably confident the film represents the series and ought to be on the list on the one hand, and the voter who hasn't seen Synecdoche, NY or Before Midnight because he/she hated every other Kaufman or Linklater film s/he ever saw and is reasonably confident they wouldn't value it too highly.

--Worst case scenario of not voting in Round 2 is that a film one feels particularly passionate about doesn't make the final cut (last four out) because not enough other people saw it. So the impetus is probably a little higher if someone saw a title he/she was pleased but surprised made it to Round 2. 

But all that's just a roundabout way of saying that Round 2 is an opportunity for those who want it to give more nuanced feedback. Noone, however, should feel pressured.

 

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Thank you for thinking through all of this so well, Ken.

A few questions about dates for you or others who may know:

So April 30th will be the last day to vote for Round 2?  

Also, could you please kindly share the likely deadline for the blurbs to be submitted?  

That info will be much appreciated, especially as I may not be looking in on A and F every day and don't want to miss any key turning points in the process. 

Thank you!

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Just a reminder that the deadline for voting in Round 2 (which is optional) is tomorrow, April 30th at 11:59 p.m. PST (2:59 a.m. on May 1 for those of us on the East Coast). 

Brian there is no deadline set for blurbs at this time as I was waiting to see which blurbs were covered and which weren't. But since I am traveling May 11-22,  it seems likely that I'll ask for them by May 25 so that I can investigate making a standalone page with the results for posting these. 

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