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Peter T Chattaway

Star Trek: the first ten movies (1979-2002)

120 posts in this topic

CrimsonLine wrote:

: . . . Spacedock . . .

Yeah, I thought about that, but didn't think of it as being a "ship" so much as... some other sort of space thingy.

: . . . Grissom . . .

I thought about that one too, but couldn't recall whether it had ever popped up in any subsequent movies.

: . . . and that small freighter from the beginning (which has shown up in many many contexts later, and became one of the workhorse models of the Trek world).

Oh, really? You mean the one that the Bird of Prey destroys after getting the Genesis data? I thought about that ship too, but to me it just seemed really nondescript, like something that had been cobbled together to serve a plot point and nothing more.

: I could be wrong about the name order. I was working from memory.

Hmmm. I thought this copy of the script might settle the question, but the section in which the Klingons watch Kirk narrate the Genesis footage is surprisingly skimpy on what, exactly, Kirk says in the video. (Incidentally, I just noticed that the scene in which Kirk finds McCoy in Spock's quarters includes the line: "As he nears the figure, whoever it is starts to flee, and Kirk grapples with him, like Jacob with the dark Angel." Interesting.)

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CrimsonLine wrote: . . . and that small freighter from the beginning (which has shown up in many many contexts later, and became one of the workhorse models of the Trek world).

Oh, really? You mean the one that the Bird of Prey destroys after getting the Genesis data? I thought about that ship too, but to me it just seemed really nondescript, like something that had been cobbled together to serve a plot point and nothing more.

It was that. But it also turned out to be a very detailed and STURDY cobbled-together vessel, which wound up being used, sometimes backwards, sometimes upside-down, in a variety of roles in TNG, VOY, and DS9. It was even turned into a digital model! (See: Memory Alpha article: Studio Models - Merchantman)

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phlox wrote:

: I'd say there is a degree of new insight or growth at the end of Star Trek V --

: Kirk to Spock: I lost a brother once. I was lucky. I got him back.

Heh. Peter David's comic-book adaptation corrected this exchange, so that Kirk said he lost TWO brothers, and he got ONE of them back. :)

: McCoy: I thought you said men like us don’t have families.

And the novelization (I forget who wrote it) tweaked the earlier scene in which Kirk made this statement, by having Spock interject that Kirk did have a nephew and sister-in-law, and McCoy did have a daughter... :)

Edited by Peter T Chattaway

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Re: the death of Kirk in Star Trek: Generations (1994), someone attended a William Shatner event in Australia recently and passed this little tidbit along to TrekMovie.com:

The most powerful section of the night for me was when Shatner told the story about his thought processes for how he would deal with his death scene in ‘Generations’. He articulated it in a certain way that I’d never really considered, and it made the whole event extremely touching and thought provoking. Bill said he always played Kirk as a man with a tremendous sense of awe and wonder about the world around him. He said ‘when Kirk looked up into space, he was amazed. When a monster ran at him, he was amazed’. This was the motivation for Kirk’s ‘Oh My’ line in ‘Generations’ — Kirk being truly awed by finally glimpsing death. Bill then commented that he himself is terrified of death, and that, being 80, he has to deal with it now every day of his life.

Shatner's obsession with death has come up elsewhere, too. If memory serves, one of the DVD commentaries that recorded -- either ST4:TVH, which he shared with Leonard Nimoy, or ST5:TFF, which he shared with his daughter -- includes a bit where Shatner marvels at the fact that he can still see DeForest Kelley onscreen even though Kelley had died a few years earlier in real life. I also vaguely recall him making some comment about possibly dying in a blazing car-crash, or something. I can't recall if the two comments were linked in any way; for all I know, they might have been made in separate commentaries.

Come to think of it, Kelley was 79 when he died in 1999. And both Shatner and Nimoy are 80 now. Then again, James Doohan was 85 when he died in 2005. (As for the other regulars, currently, Nichelle Nichols is 78, Walter Koenig is 74, and George Takei turns 74 later this month. Majel Barrett, who was more of a recurring guest star than a regular, was 76 when she died in 2008. And Gene Roddenberry, who started it all, was 70 when he died in 1991. And if anyone's wondering about Grace Lee Whitney, she turned 81 last week.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TtMEcZk3AE

Edited by Peter T Chattaway

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I just posted this to the Pixar thread, but it bears posting here, too: the video below was created by Loren Carpenter, who calls it "the world's first fractal movie", and who showed it to great acclaim at SIGGRAPH in 1980, after which he was immediately hired to work at Lucasfilm's Computer Division, which eventually became Pixar. (Carpenter remains the "chief scientist" at Pixar and is also currently a "senior research scientist" at Disney Research, according to Wikipedia.) Note how similar the opening and closing sequences of this "fractal movie" are to the 'Genesis Planet' sequence in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982).

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For what it's worth, Amazon US currently has the original movie collection up for $39 as its blu-ray deal of the week.

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You don't know how sad it made me, upon reading that news, to remember that I already own a copy.

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You don't know how sad it made me, upon reading that news, to remember that I already own a copy.

My set came in yesterday and I'm re-watching the movies I've not seen in years: namely The Search for Spock (to which, I'm afraid, I was a little unkind) and The Final Frontier (to which I'm not nearly unkind enough). I haven't dug into any of the special features, though.

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Pre-Torchwood John Barrowman interviews William Shatner about Star Trek: Generations:

Edited by NBooth

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The day after Christopher Plummer won his Oscar, Intrada revealed that it has released an expanded edition of the soundtrack to Plummer's Star Trek movie (i.e. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country).

And so, with this, ALL SIX of the original-series films have now had expanded soundtracks. (The J.J. Abrams film had one, too.)

The expanded soundtrack albums -- most of which have come out in just the last few years -- have not all followed the same format, though:

  • Star Trek: The Motion Picture came out in 1999, on the film's 20th anniversary, and was a 2-disc set: One disc contained the expanded soundtrack, and the other disc contained the 1976 album Inside Star Trek, which consisted of interviews with the actors and excerpts from some of Gene Roddenberry's appearances at conventions etc. It did NOT include a copy of the original, shorter soundtrack album.

  • Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was a single-disc release. It did NOT include a copy of the original, shorter soundtrack album.

  • Star Trek III: The Search for Spock was a 2-disc set: One disc contained the expanded soundtrack, and the other disc contained the original, shorter soundtrack album.

  • Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home was a single-disc release. It did NOT include a copy of the original, shorter soundtrack album, per se, but, wherever there is a difference between the movie version of a track and the earlier album's version of that track, I believe this disc includes the earlier album's version as one of the "extra" tracks at the end.

  • Star Trek V: The Final Frontier was a 2-disc set: One disc contained the expanded soundtrack, and the other disc contained the original, shorter soundtrack album AS WELL AS some alternate and source cues.

  • Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country will be a 2-disc set: One disc contains the expanded soundtrack, and the other disc contains the original, shorter soundtrack album.

FWIW, the expanded score to the J.J. Abrams film was released concurrently with the shorter, one-disc soundtrack album -- so no effort was made to include the shorter album with the longer album. I have not listened to either version often enough to discern whether there is any difference between the two versions of any cue that appears on both albums.

So... will we see expanded versions of the Next Generation movie scores, now? All but one of them were scored by Jerry Goldsmith, so, no matter how bad the MOVIES might have been, there's bound to be fans clamouring for more of the MUSIC.

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Aha, so they ARE releasing expanded scores for the Next Generation movies! Starting, not surprisingly, with Star Trek: First Contact (1996) -- by far the most popular/successful of the Next Generation movies, and also the movie that brought Jerry Goldsmith back to the franchise after an absence of several years. (He had scored two of the less-popular original-series movies; after this, he went on to score the next two movies as well, plus he composed the theme music for TV's Star Trek: Voyager.)

Note, BTW, that this new album has a complete SCORE for Star Trek: First Contact -- meaning it has all of the instrumental music composed by Jerry Goldsmith and his son Joel -- but it is not quite a complete SOUNDTRACK, since it is missing the Roy Orbison and Steppenwolf tracks that the original soundtrack album had.

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Star Trek V: The Final Frontier was a 2-disc set: One disc contained the expanded soundtrack, and the other disc contained the original, shorter soundtrack album AS WELL AS some alternate and source cues.

Apparently this was a limited-edition set that sold out within months, but all of the other expanded soundtracks are not-limited and remain in print, so Intrada is re-issuing the set with slightly tweaked packaging (though the CD program remains identical to the earlier release, which was put out by La-La Land Records).

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Devin Faraci at BadAssDigest counts down his 10 Best Moments in STAR TREK History, and it includes several from the Original Series movies. My favorite line in the article:

It takes decades to earn a scene like this.

It's his #2 moment, and if you're a Trek fan, you already know what it's about.

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Devin Faraci wrote:

: It takes decades to earn a scene like this.

Or a decade and a half, as the case may be. :)

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So I knew about the lyrics to the Original Series theme, but I didn't know that "Illia's Theme" from TMP also had lyrics--sung by Shaun Cassidy, no less:

Edited by NBooth

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NBooth wrote:

: So I knew about the lyrics to the Original Series theme, but I didn't know that "Illia's Theme" from TMP also had lyrics--sung by Shaun Cassidy, no less:

Um, thanks, I've been trying to forget that I heard that version of the tune ever since I first came across it several months ago. 'Ilia's Theme' is one of my favorite soundtrack pieces ever, and I don't like having it tarnished like that!

Incidentally, they have released a 2-CD expanded edition of the Star Trek: Generations soundtrack now (and yes, I got one of the autographed copies). It has always been one of the lesser Star Trek soundtracks, in my opinion (along with The Voyage Home), but hey, I'm a completist -- and the new set does include the bit where Data sings 'Lifeforms'.

So I guess Insurrection and Nemesis are the only movie soundtracks that have not yet been given the expanded-edition treatment.

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NBooth wrote:

: So I knew about the lyrics to the Original Series theme, but I didn't know that "Illia's Theme" from TMP also had lyrics--sung by Shaun Cassidy, no less:

Um, thanks, I've been trying to forget that I heard that version of the tune ever since I first came across it several months ago. 'Ilia's Theme' is one of my favorite soundtrack pieces ever, and I don't like having it tarnished like that!

Yikes. Sorry 'bout that.

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NBooth wrote:

: Yikes. Sorry 'bout that.

'Sokay. :)

Interestingly, I don't mind the disco versions of the various Star Trek themes. It's just any version with lyrics that threatens to stick in my memory.

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FWIW, my newest blog post: 'Music for Klingons, part one: Jerry Goldsmith'. Looks at how the "bad guy" theme from Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979) went on to be used in Star Trek: First Contact (1996) to celebrate Worf's kick-ass heroism. In-between there are some interesting variations on the theme in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (1989), where certain Klingon characters *are* presented as "bad guys" but, because we've already seen that the future will include "good" Klingons, there is an effort to spin the Klingon theme in a positive direction, as well.

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Remember how John P. Meier said in Volume 1 of A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus that his was a two-book project? And remember how he said in (the 1100-page!) Volume 2 that it was now a three-book project? And remember how he said...?

Anyway. I started this Klingon-music thing assuming it would be one post, and then it turned into two, with the first installment on Jerry Goldsmith and then the second installment on the other guys. But no. Instead, the second installment is exclusively about James Horner (composer for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, the latter of which is the only film -- so far -- in which the Klingons are out-and-out baddies), and I've got to save Cliff Eidelman and Michael Giacchino for the third installment, which I'll write... whenever I get a chance.

Edited by Peter T Chattaway

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Remember how John P. Meier said in Volume 1 of A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus that his was a two-book project? And remember how he said in (the 1100-page!) Volume 2 that it was now a three-book project? And remember how he said...?

Uh...I don't remember any of this. :)

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'Music for Klingons, part three: Eidelman + Giacchino'. Looks at Cliff Eidelman's score for Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country and what it has in common -- and doesn't -- with Michael Giacchino's score for Star Trek into Darkness. (Keywords: vocals! Klingon lyrics!)

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Phew. Took me a few hours, but: my latest blog post includes links to all the reviews I have written of the Star Trek films, including a few of the lengthier posts that I wrote or linked to earlier in this thread.

What I found most interesting is how I skewed rather positive on Star Trek: Generations when I reviewed it for the student paper in 1994 but came to see it as a "wasted opportunity" when the two-disc DVD came out in 2004.

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I was thinking about Nemesis...and among the many things that bothered me? The worst was the cheat of the film. It was as if they felt Data progressed so far they were at a loss with what to do in the future with him. So

So, Data sacrifices himself, but, hey, do not worry....We have the older model (who looks just like him!).

I presume had there been another Next Gen film we would have been treated to Data-esque antics in the vein of the early seasons of the show. Because we needed to recycle the weakest points of the Next Generation.

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