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Ray Boltz


Peter T Chattaway
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Boltz brought the Christmas CD with him to MCC-Indianapolis on that cold, sunny December 2007 day and slipped it to Miner on his way out with a note taped to it on which he

"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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Whoa! This is the "Thank You, For Giving to the Lord" guy? Dreary but ubiquitous song during the 1990s, although it may have been many years old even then.

"I am a life, that was changed."

"What matters are movies, not awards; experiences, not celebrations; the subjective power of individual critical points of view, not the declamatory compromises of consensus." - Richard Brody, "Godard's Surprise Win Is a Victory for Independent Cinema," The New Yorker

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mrmando wrote:

: Yes, and the anti-abortion anthem "What Was I Supposed to Be."

Well, polls apparently indicate that young evangelicals are more anti-abortion but less anti-gay than their parents, so THAT shouldn't pose Boltz any problems. :)

"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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I don't want to start a brawl, but is it really a happy ending?

He's been able to acknowledge publicly how he really feels. Now that is doubtless an important thing. And nowadays, the world tends to think of it as almost the only important thing. If you've got authenticity, you've arrived. You know who you are and you need nothing else.

But in this case, living in what he considers the way that's true to himself, the authentic way, has him ending his marriage -- there can't be much happiness involved in that situation -- and living in a way that contradicts the teachings of the faith and the Scriptures he believes in.

Finding answers to that kind of dilemma has to be agonizing. And it's something the church should be willing to talk about more openly. But to say that he can authentically live out his faith and have sexual relations with other men at the same time is contradictory, and to try to live that way, I'm afraid, will not lead to either authenticity or happiness. I think of Andrew Sullivan, who believed that he could be a practicing Catholic and a practicing homosexual at the same time with no inconsistency. He seems to believe nowadays that he's pretty much the only true Christian there is and all the others are wrong. Talk about self-isolation.

Not every homosexual who wants to overcome his sexual desires will do so. Some will (I know some of them personally) and some won't. But whether they do or not, there has to be a way that the church can show love to them and help them walk obediently with God at the same time. I think many of us have a lot to learn here.

In the meantime, I'll keep Ray Boltz and his family in my prayers.

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I'm just happy that he no longer sports that fluffy, afro-mullet (which i understand was a wig to begin with)

"The things we enjoy are channels through which the divine glory strikes us, and those who love and delight in any good thing may yet learn to love God." --Gilbert Meilaender

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I'm just happy that he no longer sports that fluffy, afro-mullet (which i understand was a wig to begin with)

A wig?!

I can understand the temptation to live a lie... but why THAT lie?

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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Gina: Thanks for posting that. Well said.

"What matters are movies, not awards; experiences, not celebrations; the subjective power of individual critical points of view, not the declamatory compromises of consensus." - Richard Brody, "Godard's Surprise Win Is a Victory for Independent Cinema," The New Yorker

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A wig?! I can understand the temptation to live a lie... but why THAT lie?

Live a lie? Do you mean now?

No, no, no... The afro-mullet wig.

That is --> "lie" = "wig" not "lie" = "gay".

The levity that I was trying to inject into this difficult discussion was centered around the irony of choosing a horrible hairpiece as a way to misrepresent yourself to the public instead of a good hairpiece (or better yet IMO, going with what God gave, or didn't give, you). Not much could be worse than the hairpiece.

A far as the wig goes, have you ever been to Nashville or had much contact with the CCM industry?

Never spent much time in Nashville. I have known a small number of people in CCM. (Sara used to be the guitarist for a minor-level Christian singer.) I've met several that impressed me on a personal level to some degree (Steven Curtis Chapman, Michael Card, Wayne Watson), some that didn't impress me very much (members of the Cruse family when they were "CRUSE", Bryan Duncan in the "Holy Rollin'" period, Steve Camp in his "Shake Me To Wake Me" days), and a smattering of Southern Gospel folks (generally very negative experiences, although it didn't help that I didn't care for their genre of music at all).

There are many fantastic people in CCM, but there are a LOT of snakes. Lies are their stock in trade.

No doubt.

Much more seriously, I feel really bad for the guy.

The thing I don't get is that he felt real sexual attraction to his wife for a number of years (as well as having same-sex attraction), so he had an outlet for his sexual energies (which is more than many people have, "gay" or "straight") and the support of a loving spousal relationship. I think everyone has inappropriate sexual attractions and urges from time to time whether they are heterosexual or homosexual that are outside the bounds of the God-given monogamous male<->female order. While I've never had homosexual desires, I've had plenty of inappropriate and potentially destructive heterosexual desires both as a single man, a married man, an unhappily married man, a post-divorce single-again man, and a very happily married man (thanks Sara!). Christian men and women are called to resist (and even flee) from the dangers of inappropriate relationships and be faithful and fully committed to God and our spouses (or future spouses).

I don't take the issues surrounding same-sex attraction, homosexuality and Christian spirituality lightly.

I have a few friends who identify as gay, one is in seminary to be a vocational minister, and I know there are some issues I don't completely understand. But then again, from all of my reading of pro-gay Christian literature and interaction with gay friends, I get the sense that the standard for being gay is that one feels, at least from time to time, a same-sex physical attraction, and that the definition of one who is no longer gay (if they even concede that it might be possible) is that one no longer feel any attraction toward the same sex. But sexuality is not always that simple. A number of people potentially feel attraction toward both genders.

For instance, one of my very close friends was really interested in the woman who ended up becoming my first wife. At the time I met her, he was very interested in her, but she ended up eventually connecting with me. Several years later, he was interested in a female friend of mine but they didn't really hit it off much past casual friendship. But he has also told me he feels same-sex attraction. He ended up getting influenced by a local affirming congregation affiliated with the Disciples of Christ, and they encouraged him to focus on same-sex relationships. It seems to me that my friend has been open to going either way, but a church with an agenda* pushed him toward it.

In my opinion, if one can live in a heterosexual relationship (like Boltz apparently could), then they should do it. If one has only same-sex attraction, then they have a much more difficult road. But one does not have to have sexual relations to have a full and meaningful life. Most of us have lived for significant amounts of time (years and decades even) without sexual relations. It is certainly possible.

--

*He no longer has ties to the church because they tried to be too controlling and don't actually believe much of the traditionally-accepted gospel of Jesus. <--Not trying to be ugly, but factual. They are very much tied to the Jesus Seminar strain of Christendom.

"If the Christian subculture exists primarily to condemn the world, you can be sure that Jesus is not having any part of it." - John Fischer

"Ignorance is excusable when it is borne like a cross, but when it is wielded like an axe, and with moral indignation, then it becomes something else indeed." - Flannery O'Connor

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I get the sense that the standard for being gay is that one feels, at least from time to time, a same-sex physical attraction, and that the definition of one who is no longer gay (if they even concede that it might be possible) is that one no longer feel any attraction toward the same sex. But sexuality is not always that simple. A number of people potentially feel attraction toward both genders.

This is wrong. The standard for gay is the same as straight. It's not about occasional fleeting desire, it's about a primary fundamental orientation.

For nearly all men, sexual attraction is essentially binary. Either you're attracted to ladies or you're attracted to dudes. For women, the experience of sexuality can be more fluid.

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For nearly all men, sexual attraction is essentially binary. Either you're attracted to ladies or you're attracted to dudes. For women, the experience of sexuality can be more fluid.
Very well said. Ray Boltz wasnt facing some fleeting temptation. I bet if his ex-wife gave an interview she would speak of decades of confusion and conflicting signals from the man she was married to. This has to be incredibly painful for her, but also something of a relief i would imagine. Some women in her predicament go thru 30 years of marriage thinking that there's something wrong with them

Back to more important matters... Ray's "piece" may have actually been one of those Hair Club for Men deals. A slightly different device than a traditional "wig", i believe. I think those Hair Club systems are woven into the scalp. Any HC "members" on these boards want to come out of the closet and clarify this?

Edited by coltrane

"The things we enjoy are channels through which the divine glory strikes us, and those who love and delight in any good thing may yet learn to love God." --Gilbert Meilaender

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Any HC "members" on these boards want to come out of the closet and clarify this?
I'm pretty sure Rich Kennedy wears three of those. ;)

In an interstellar burst, I am back to save the Universe.

Filmsweep by Persona. 2013 Film Journal. IlPersona.

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Apparently, Judas also suffered from this malady:

Judas%20Iscariot.jpg

(Not saying anything about baldness, just looking for other bald Christians and he came up.)

"...the vivid crossing of borders between film and theology may save the film from the banality of cinema and festival business, and it may also save the church from the deep sleep of the habitual and the always known."

(Hans Werner Dannowski)

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St. Paul has always been traditionally depicted as bald, I believe. That's how he looks in the David C. Cook comics, and in Byzantine icons too:

4702-50945-large.jpg

"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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Most of my life I thougt that I was supposed to have hair like the other boys. I'd spend hours trying to flip my thin blonde hair and pretend I loved it. I parted, I dyed, I spiked. But in the end. I was fooling myself. One day, I woke up and realized I was bald. And that I always had been. Today, my naked head is a beacon of truth in my sometimes bewildering life. Baldness is not who I am, but its a part of me that I can no longer pretend to ignore.

Edited by DanBuck
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Hmmm. Greg Volz and Glenn Kaiser got some 'splainin to do.

Funny, Greg wears a rug now but I don't think he had one with Petra or when he was a major-label solo artist.

God bless John Fischer and Michael Card, who've gone bald with grace and no attempt at deception. And then there's Peter Furler...

Let's Carl the whole thing Orff!

Do you know the deep dark secret of the avatars?

It's big. It's fat. It's Greek.

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God bless John Fischer and Michael Card, who've gone bald with grace and no attempt at deception. And then there's Peter Furler...

Mike has recently had keyboardist Jeff Taylor playing with him, as his regular keyboard player, Scott Brasher, is writing the score for the new Billy Graham movie. Jeff, like Mike, is bald. So, in the middle of their set, Mike has been saying, "now let us pause for a moment of reflection," whereupon Mike and Jeff bow their heads so the spotlights reflect into the eyes of the audience.

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I've seen Rich Kennedy. That wig is for real. Just looks fake is all.

Brandon

"God is so great and merciful that he does not require that we name him precisely. God is even willing to be anonymous for a time. Remember how God led the Three Wise Men from the East to Christ? The Wise Men did not know the God of Israel or Jesus. They worshipped the stars. So God used a star to lure them."--The Twelve Steps for Christians

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I don't see any point in starting a new thread over this, so...

Does Clay Aiken have a Christian following of any sort? I ask because he was featured in Today's Christian three years ago (and the article even states, "No, he's not gay"), and now People magazine promises to give "the full scoop on Clay Aiken at 7 a.m. EDT" -- and it is said that their next cover will feature Clay doing the "Yep, I'm Gay" routine (though perhaps not in those words).

"Sympathy must precede belligerence. First I must understand the other, as it were, from the inside; then I can critique it from the outside. So many people skip right to the latter." -- Steven D. Greydanus
Now blogging at Patheos.com. I can also still be found at Facebook, Twitter and Flickr. See also my film journal.

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